Montecristi Hat Weavers' Earnings

[Daniele Tanto]

Hats of this fine a weave are exceedingly few and far between. I own quite a few good vintage panama hats but none are this fine. I have handled a number of hats at Optimo in Chicago in the 2K to 5K price range - I do not believe any were woven with 40x40 crossings per inch.

While I love finely woven straw hats I find my expectation of them to be much like white wine... refreshing but not something to spend a lot of money on. Straw hats receive abuse from handling and hot weather perspiration such that they should be expected to be consumed in the wearing. A very expensive straw would inhibit my enjoyment of warm weather hat wearing which has helped restrain me from purchasing one... a good thing as restraint is not one of my better qualities.

Alan I agree with white wines
Seriously you expressed in a full way my thoughts about straw hats.

 

[EstherWeis]

Hats of this fine a weave are exceedingly few and far between. I own quite a few good vintage panama hats but none are this fine. I have handled a number of hats at Optimo in Chicago in the 2K to 5K price range - I do not believe any were woven with 40x40 crossings per inch.

While I love finely woven straw hats I find my expectation of them to be much like white wine... refreshing but not something to spend a lot of money on. Straw hats receive abuse from handling and hot weather perspiration such that they should be expected to be consumed in the wearing. A very expensive straw would inhibit my enjoyment of warm weather hat wearing which has helped restrain me from purchasing one... a good thing as restraint is not one of my better qualities.

I sort of agree with that.

I'd rather spend more on a perfectly preserved french felt from the 30's.
I feel like I get more wear out of those.
I think a good straw hat is a basic thing to have as a hat wearer. Heaving said that I would never spend that much on something I only reach for25-30 times tops in a year and that is more sensitive to damage.
If you live in hotter climates, then it's a different story I suppose.

As for the price, I do not now how the margins are over there, but here the guidelines are around x2,4


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[alanfgag]

The interesting thing with fine toquilla straw hats from Montecristi is the opportunity to own a contemporary hat that yields little to the qualities of hats from many decades earlier. This is not possible with felt hats. The cost seems a little crazy, but value is certainly relative and there are many conditions that compare well with hat madness.

On the floppy character, the choice of brim style will have impact, but a very finely woven hat is prized for its similarity in appearance and hand to fine cloth. If this softness is not a quality that you are after, a very fine Montecristi might be barking up the wrong palm tree.

 

[Drdan]

I've read a post by Panama Bob that discusses $5,000 Montecristi hats. He lets the reader know that he can fly anyone interested to Pilé, Ecuador, find the same quality hat, and bring them back to the U.S. with the hat for $5,000. Most luxury hat shops and importers mark up their offerings considerably; some of the prices are absurd. You can get contemporary 100% beaver felt hats for $400, $1,000 and even $5,000.

Since I became interested in Montecristi Panamas many years ago, I've seen lots of them offered on E-Bay with approximately 40X40 weaves. Most sellers will send you photos with a tape measure on the hat so you can clearly count the weaves. Go to E-Bay, search Panama hat, select the highest prices available, and you'll find some very high weave hats. Various sizes are available, and you'll see on the order box that more than 10 are available. They do exist, albeit they exist in very limited numbers. If I were physically in Ecuador, I'm sure I could find some sublime hats for a fraction of what American or European hat shops or E-Bay sellers are asking for identical quality.

FL member PabloElFlamenco is going to Cuenca in February, and will be looking out for a nice hat. I look foward to getting his feedback when he returns. I would image that for less than the price one would pay for a 900 wpsi hat online, he'd be able to get a 1,600 wpsi hat.

High weave 2 1/2" - 3.0" brimmed Montecrisiti Panamas are fine for going out to dinner and walking along the beach, but are too floppy for other activities IMO. You'd also want to baby the more expensive hats and be careful not to soak the sweatbands, or get caught in the rain with them. Entry level or 20X20 weave hats are stiffer as you'd expect, and cost considerably less, so would fit that niche nicely.

 

[Ordinary Guy]

Hats of this fine a weave are exceedingly few and far between. I own quite a few good vintage panama hats but none are this fine. I have handled a number of hats at Optimo in Chicago in the 2K to 5K price range - I do not believe any were woven with 40x40 crossings per inch.

While I love finely woven straw hats I find my expectation of them to be much like white wine... refreshing but not something to spend a lot of money on. Straw hats receive abuse from handling and hot weather perspiration such that they should be expected to be consumed in the wearing. A very expensive straw would inhibit my enjoyment of warm weather hat wearing which has helped restrain me from purchasing one... a good thing as restraint is not one of my better qualities.

+1........ also we get a lot of wind here and with 3 rivers there is always a chance of getting ones hat blown away or dunked.........

 

[tropicalbob]

Oddly enough, the tropical regions aren't places where you'd want to wear one of those exorbitantly expensive hats for the simple reason that the weather is subject to sudden and very violent changes. A colleague of mine recently showed me what was essentially a $900.00 pile of horse fodder. I haven't been into this for very long, but I'm discovering a whole range of straws outside the standard white Panama model.

 

[alanfgag]

Since I became interested in Montecristi Panamas many years ago, I've seen lots of them offered on E-Bay with approximately 40X40 weaves...

Can you share a link or photograph of one of these?

Internet sellers of panama hats are as legendary for fabrication as oriental rug salesmen.

There are one or two posts here of amazing vintage discoveries that might approach this kind of fineness. In modern hats, while you can see a square inch of very finely woven straw on Brent Black's site... the only photos of real hats that might come close to 1600 wpi were posted by former Lounge member Delectans during his photo essay at Optimo some years back. I don't believe the actual weave counts were quoted, but I do know they were very expensive. I just bumped this thread for your enjoyment.

 

[Drdan]

Thanks for the link, Alan! Some of the hats featured in the thread were exceptional. The very first photo of a Montecristi featured in the thread was not the clearest, but by the edge of the brim you tell tell it was a high wave hat. The blocking was very nicely done.

Lots of the E-Bay and online sellers do make quality claims like Persian carpet vendors as you've mentioned. Some of the Montecristi hat sellers will send you a photo of the hat with a ruler so you can count the weaves, but others never get back with a photo, so I assume they can't produce the claimed quality. I am currently in contact with a German importer, waiting for more input and photos. He says he has ~ 1,400 wpsi hats, and I recently asked if he can find a 1,600. Here's a photo of a hat with about 1,400 weaves. The photo is large, but for some reason doesn't load on to the site in its original dimension.



There is a very nice 2,500 weave Montecristi shown in the link below. I don't know its provenance, but it's a very rare and beautiful hat.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?10218-Ultrafinopanamahats/page2

Brent Black sure does have some sublime, beautifully blocked hats on his website, and you'll pay for his offerings. Seems like he's cornered most of the super high wpsi hats. I doubt if you can purchase hats directly from any the artisans who weave them, but I'm sure you could find 1,600 wpsi hats in Montecristi. If I ever go back to Venezuela or Brazil on vacation, I'd be tempted to take a trip to Ecuador...

 

[PabloElFlamenco]

Internet sellers of panama hats are as legendary for fabrication as oriental rug salesmen.

Check before you cheque!

 

[alanfgag]

Harp Player Gene's amazing find is the example I remembered... thanks for sharing the link to the photos. The German sourced weaving looks very nice - keep us posted.

Check before you cheque!

Sage advice... look forward to hearing your report from Ecuador!

 

[KingAndrew]

Having lived much of my life in Florida and now in Shanghai, straw hats are what I wear about half the year, sometimes longer.

I have a high quality panama from Optimo and can agree with Alan on several points. The hat really does feel like cloth, although I am sure it is less than 40x40, as he states. Graham claimed that there was some "flaw" in the weave (I can't find any), so I got the hat for less than the original price, but it was still far from cheap. Although it is beautiful, I wear it much less often than my milan or boater, because it does feel fragile and hard to replace.

When I was at Delmonico Hatters in July, they showed me examples of a new line of straw hats that were reportedly woven underwater (yes, underwater basket-weaving is apparently a real thing). They claimed that the resulting hats were "water-proof panamas." I must admit I was intrigued, but I had too many hats to take back to Asia, so I could not purchase one to test out on this trip. Perhaps some other Lounger will have the chance to try these hats and let us know if they solve the "caught in the rain" problem.

 

[Drdan]

Can you share a link or photograph of one of these?

The German importer (Dorit Hesse) is able to supply a 45 weave per linear inch hat, which is 2,025 wpsi. This is the highest quality that he is able to acquire.





I'm gettting more information, but I'm sure the price will be more than I am willing to spend. All the better reason to personally purchase my next hat in Ecuador. Spanish is my 2nd language, so communication with the weavers and/or suppliers there is not a problem.

PabloElFlamenco is lucky to be heading to Ecuador in February. I am sure he will be able to give us lots of useful information as to the pricing there, how weavers are paid, and perhaps even how to commission a hat. It will be interesting to know if there is a certain payment expected for various qualities for 400-500 wpsi, 600-800 wpsi, 900-1200 wpsi, or whatever.

 

[Drdan]

Dorit Hesse reported that the 2,025 wpsi hat body shown and mentioned above is priced at 4,400 Euro, and is signed by Marcial Espinal.

 

[Bob Roberts]

MOON FRUNO AND I are gonna buy and share that hat... I'll be expecting the checks shortly. Certified, of course.

 

[rogerstg]

MOON FRUNO AND I are gonna buy and share that hat... I'll be expecting the checks shortly. Certified, of course.

Count me in too, as soon at my check from the Nigerian prince clears. :eeek:

 

[DJH]

One of the issues with all these panama providers is that they would have us believe that the weave is the same in both the x and y dimension.

Looking at the Hesse example, the weave is far from square - if it is 45 per linear inch in one axis it is only about a third of that in the other, giving a weave per square inch of much less than claimed - although it would still be a very nice hat.

 

[KingAndrew]

I measured my hat (harder than you would think) and it was about 20x25.

But it is beautiful and feels very cloth-like.

 

[PabloElFlamenco]

Just an update prior to the ..hats..

I'd written on the FB page, in very "cortés" Spanish, the ladies at the hat cooperative in Sigsig, telling them of our intention to visit and "hope to buy a very fino hat", asking what their open/visiting hours are and, for February, the days closed due to holidays (carnaval is up...) and they responded "just give us a call and we'll receive on closed days".

That could mean various things, but at face value I consider that to be a sign of respect and an invitation.

Now that I put the venture on FL, I'm engaged to report.

Pablo

 

[Drdan]

Just an update prior to the ..hats..

I'd written on the FB page, in very "cortés" Spanish, the ladies at the hat cooperative in Sigsig, telling them of our intention to visit and "hope to buy a very fino hat", asking what their open/visiting hours are and, for February, the days closed due to holidays (carnaval is up...) and they responded "just give us a call and we'll receive on closed days".

That could mean various things, but at face value I consider that to be a sign of respect and an invitation.

Now that I put the venture on FL, I'm engaged to report.

Pablo

That was a good move on your part announcing your arrival and intentions on visiting the cooperative. I have no doubt that the'll be rolling out the proverbial red carpet for you, and will have some really fine Cuencas awaiting your perusal! You sound like you'll be super prepared! I'd love to be in your shoes and be able to go Panama hat hunting at the source.

 

[RJR]

I choose to believe your thoughts re respect and an invitation.