Montecristi / Cuenca Help

[ccajackson]

Hello FL'ers! I found the Lounge as I've been contemplating my first Montecristi hat. I own a Stetson Sutley (in bronze) and a Miller Hats teardrop fedora (in gray), but with the currently nasty Boston summer, I realized I need something cooler. My discovery of the world of Montecristi began when I started looking for a straw golf hat (ala Greg Norman). Somehow I reached Brent Black's site, which gave a nice history and overview, as well as pictures of some beautiful toppers, and swayed me towards a daily hat (like a Montecristi fedora) from an intermittently-used golf hat. Further searching led me to the Lounge, where Panama Bob and others have dramatically furthered my education (thanks to all!).

Some questions that linger relate to the hats themselves and some to the process of getting it. If it's OK, I'll just list the questions:

1. Are these hats actually as cool (temperature-wise) as they look? Some of the finer weaves seem like they might not be as "breezy" as a straw hat sounds to be. The Cuenca Brisa weaves look more open, but to my eye they lack the real 'pop' of the nice Montecristis or even the Cuenca Llano weaves.

2. Can the Montecristis be worn with impunity in the rain? As I wear glasses, an added benefit of my fedoras is the protection of my lenses from the blatter. Will this exposure sap the blocked stiffness of a Montecristi?

3. From some of the threads, it seems that Montecristis (especially the very fine ones) have a tendency to floppiness even with good blocking; how do you find they do in gusty weather (Boston can get some good gales!) - do the brims flap like pennants (or fly off like a kite) in a good blow? Also, do they maintain a nice snap in front?

4. If an unblocked hat is purchased, what should I expect to pay for blocking (such as from Art Fawcett), and who are the folks to consider for after-purchase blocking?

Thanks so much for your help. You all host a great site!

C-C

 

[zetwal]

Welcome!

Fine Montecristi hats are lightweight and delicate and comfortable. While they are very thin and do breath a little, air does not blow through them as with a coarse or open weave design. They should not be worn in the rain and do remain floppy. In my experience the brim will stay down in the front and up in the back. They are floppy but with a little spring to it. As with any fedora, they can easily blow off your head in a strong wind. So too, the better the hat fits the better it will stay on your head without feeling tight. They are wonderful hats - comfortable and stylish. They are also quite delicate and should not be worn in bad weather or handled roughly.

 

[fluteplayer07]

I agree with zetwal on all his points. Through a streak of good fortune, I have managed to secure a very nice, high WPI Cuenca. It's very comfortable in even the hottest weather. I'd say the WPI is around 300 or so (although I'm not the best judge of it), and even though I can't feel my hair rustle in the wind under it, it is without a doubt cool wearing and breathable. The only discomfort I have in very hot weather is that the leather sweat makes my brow sweat, but that is unavoidable with any fine hat. Sometimes you can find (or as with Art, specify) a perforated sweatband that makes it even easier.

Any fine handwoven panama can be subject to a certain amount of 'brim wonkiness' as a result of it being handmade (and any fine handmade object is subject to some amount of imperfection). Even an imperceptible amount of crooked weaving can later manifest itself into a finished straw hat as a bit of swoop or curl to the brim of the blocked hat. In my opinion, it does not detract from the hat, but instead adds a bit of character to it. For example, my Cuenca naturally falls into three brim 'settings'; brim all up, brim down in front as with any typical fedora, or one side fixed the slightest touch down in a gentle Hollywood brim swoop.

Care should be taken with any hat, especially panamas. They are not waterproof, crushable, or child or pet resistant. Take caution with them. If mishandled, a crack may develop (the way my Cuenca arrived).

Several places can take an unblocked straw body and finish it. Optimo charges $50 to $75 for a C&R, and about $20 for a ribbon treatment. They have a really nice Optimo block (the style on my Cuenca, which was fully finished for a total of $100 from Optimo, completed by the hat's previous owner). I don't know Art's rates, but I think he's around the $40 range for a C&R, and similar to Optimo for the ribbon work. But Art does more creative and original ribbon work than Optimo IMHO, from his library of vintage ribbons. I personally love his Chevron treatment (a variant of which serves as my current avatar). Don't quote me on his prices, though.

And lastly, I recommend Panamabob for the straw bodies. Although I have not bought from him myself, I have heard nothing but good things about the man and his hats/straw bodies.

Cheers, and welcome!,

 

[CRH]

I wear Panamas in the rain more often than I'd like but not on purpose. I have a vintage Stetson Cuenca that has been "Stetsonized" - some sort of water proofing treatment - that by golly actually works to a point.

Wet Panamas are very interesting critters. Kind of a cross between a wet cat and a bath towel that needs to go through a spin cycle.

Water actually helps cure floppiness because the paja takes in the water and swells up. When it's dry things end up tightened up a bit.

I should qualify this by saying that I don't own a Monti, only Cuencas. Once I land a Monti I should think I'd treat it no differently just because it's weaved differently in a different town.

 

[CRH]

...They are also quite delicate and should not be worn in bad weather or handled roughly.

Panamas are tougher than we think, or so it seems to me anyway.

Intuition tells me to be wary around horses or goats if you are wearing a Panama.

Sneaky critters those horses and goats...

 

[ccajackson]

Thanks!

Thank you all for the replies so far!

It seems I have a similar impression to y'all, the Cuencas are a bit more stiff (especially with the coarser weave), but all of the hats are more durable than they'd seem - provided you don't wear them in a hurricane.:eusa_doh:

Craig, I appreciate the advice! Fortunately there aren't too many goats and horses in Boston...except for those mounted cops; I guess I would have to watch out!

C-C

 

[danofarlington]

I wear Panamas in the rain more often than I'd like but not on purpose. I have a vintage Stetson Cuenca that has been "Stetsonized" - some sort of water proofing treatment - that by golly actually works to a point.

Wet Panamas are very interesting critters. Kind of a cross between a wet cat and a bath towel that needs to go through a spin cycle.

Water actually helps cure floppiness because the paja takes in the water and swells up. When it's dry things end up tightened up a bit.

I should qualify this by saying that I don't own a Monti, only Cuencas. Once I land a Monti I should think I'd treat it no differently just because it's weaved differently in a different town.

Beware of the rain with a fine Panama hat unless you like wavy brims.

 

[zetwal]

Beware of the rain with a fine Panama hat unless you like wavy brims.

Here's a stylish "solution" from 1924 ...

 

[fluteplayer07]

Kinda defeats the purpose of buying a nice looking hat.

 

[Lefty]

Bruce Wayne's early attempts at a Batman costume failed to strike fear into evildoers.

 

[zetwal]

The guy in the ad would scare the living [...] out of me. Look at that zombie stare. Mess with me at your Peril, he seems to be saying under his breath.

There is the added danger that one could die laughing at the confrontation.

 

[WineGuy]

Hi ccajackson, My own experience with several Panamas is that they don't breath a hell of a lot(obviously more than a felt), especially my 600 WPI Montecristi. I found myself frequently taking the hat off on hot days to dry off the sweat. You really should be looking at a semi-colado or other vented type hats for hot days, and you would probably do better with a cloth sweat band rather than leather.
As far as getting wet from the rain, I try to keep mine as dry as possible, Art got the thing finally tamed and I'd hate to see it go wavy again. FYI, very often the wavyness is a by product of the hat not being blocked appropriate to your head shape. If your head is a long oval and the hat just a regular oval it's going to torq the brim into all sorts of waves.

 

[ccajackson]

Zetwal - nice ad! I shouldn't be surprised, but I am, that the desire to advertise was rampant even in 1924. "The flaps that hang...while the exposed portions of the shade may be printed with advertisements." An absolute wonder that it didn't catch on!

Wine Guy - thank you for the advice! I've been reading through the Panama CANAL thread, and know a bit of your trials (at least up until one year ago... I'm still reading ). I'm thinking, based on your experience and others' comments, that a nice Cuenca Fino Brisa would be a good daily knock-about (and reasonably ventilated) and an unblocked Extra Fino Montecristi (blocked by Art Fawcett) would be a great "formal" hat. Obviously, I'll need to check with PB, too! If you don't mind my asking, what grade of hat did you go with? I love the final result you show in the message - beautiful design, especially the ribbon!

C-C

 

[WineGuy]

If you don't mind my asking, what grade of hat did you go with? I love the final result you show in the message - beautiful design, especially the ribbon!

C-C

Not sure what the grade is but it's a Montecristi and has about 24x25 WPI.

I have two Panama's, the Montecristi(which I wear 90% of the time) and a Cuenca that I wear for yardwork or when I know I'm work up a good sweat.

Both from PB.

 

[Winston-Smythe]

ccajackson - I own 2 Brent Black hats but have purchased one for my girlfriend as well. I have his Aficionado and Rollable Optimo and she has the Breton. We are extremely happy with Brent's quality and service. In my experience, it has been about 3 - 3 1/2 weeks from order to delivery. He responds to emails within one day and will talk with you on the phone for as long as you need. When you are spending $$$, you expect that kind of personal attention.

If you are looking for high style and unmatched quality, I can't recommend him enough. I would only buy from Brent in the future.

Brent's hats came recommended to me by family, so I didn't consider any other vendors who are regulars on the FL. I'm sure their hats are of substantial quality and you will have a fine experience shopping with them. I really like the fact that Brent keeps an inventory, so the only waiting is on him to block the hat.

Nothing beats the look or style of a fine Monticristi.

 

[Panamabob]

I've been building up inventory as I can and generally have several dozen Montecristi and hundreds of Cuencas in Indiana at any one time. Since I don't charge hideously large gobs of money (my opinion) over what I paid for the hats, it's kind of hard to build up inventory. Even though you are only spending $ with me, and not $$$, I'll still spend the time you need on phone or via email.

 

[WineGuy]

I've been building up inventory as I can and generally have several dozen Montecristi and hundreds of Cuencas in Indiana at any one time. Since I don't charge hideously large gobs of money (my opinion) over what I paid for the hats, it's kind of hard to build up inventory. Even though you are only spending $ with me, and not $$$, I'll still spend the time you need on phone or via email.

ccajackson, just for reference, I walked into JJ Hat Center(One of the last great old time hat shops left in NYC) in mid town Manhattan last summer to have them do a spot repair of a loose stitch on the sweat band of my PanamaBob Montecristi that I paid $250 for. The manager, who's been there for about 40 years, looked my hat over and complemented me on it's quality and asked me what I paid for it. I asked him to tell me what he thought "I should have" paid for it and he said $1800-$2000. When I told him what I paid he showed me a $1999 Borsalino Montecristi with a similar style and WPI and said I got the deal of the century. Needless to say I was smirking for weeks.

 

[zetwal]

I walked into JJ Hat Center(One of the last great old time hat shops left in NYC) in mid town Manhattan last summer to have them do a spot repair of a loose stitch on the sweat band of my PanamaBob Montecristi that I paid $250 for. The manager, who's been there for about 40 years, looked my hat over and complemented me on it's quality and asked me what I paid for it. I asked him to tell me what he thought "I should have" paid for it and he said $1800-$2000. When I told him what I paid he showed me a $1999 Borsalino Montecristi with a similar style and WPI and said I got the deal of the century. Needless to say I was smirking for weeks.

Notwithstanding the inflated cost of Borsalinos, or what the guy at JJ told you, there is no way that an attractive 600 count Montecristi should go for 1800-2000. I don't know why he told you that, but it's just not true.

 

[WineGuy]

Notwithstanding the inflated cost of Borsalinos, or what the guy at JJ told you, there is no way that an attractive 600 count Montecristi should go for 1800-2000. I don't know why he told you that, but it's just not true.

Well, I could not see a difference between his hat tagged at $1999 and mine, and I can not think of reason why he would want to mislead me so I'll take his word for it.

 

[zetwal]

The fact that he sells a similar Borsalino for that price does not mean that your hat should go for that or more. I don't want to be argumentative. I'm sure that you got a great deal on your hat, and that it is wonderful. But I do think that a little more research into the going prices for hats of the quality you describe will back me up.