Modern Singers, Classic Music?

[Miss 1929]

**********

Until this post you did little to quantify the negative reaction. How were the songs so un-authentic? So many of these songs have been Arranged in different styles over the last 60-80 years that many of us would be hard pressed to say WHAT IS AUTHENTIC. What are the quintessential versions of these songs that are so Authentic?

I am not saying you know nothing I am saying you did little to give us a background for such a vehement position.

IS music Objective or Subjective? If you say you like a certain band and I say i hate that band but give little reasons for the position, it is little more than a yes no argument no substance. You could be complaining that they sounded un-authentic because it did not sound like it was a scratchy 78.

Here is a CD I ENJOY and I am being told it's a worthless POS. What exactly were you looking for in this since they disappointed you so much?

John, John, John...
Where do I begin?

Did I say "worthless POS"? No sir, you said that This is an unfair attack.

I said, I hated it, and many people I know hated it. I didn't say you have no right to like it, so BACK OFF and LIGHTEN UP.
Here's a few specifics of why I hated it:

These are period songs, in a period movie, with people wearing period clothes, and they are singing in 1990s styles. So they are not singing in an authentic 1920s or 1930s style, as the period would demand. I go to period movies to immerse myself in the period, so this was a huge disappointment to me. I would consider the recordings of that day, or modern recordings (sans scratches is fine, Mr. Literal), that are sensitive to the style, to be authentic.

This one really bothered me a lot: they changed the MUSIC of Begin the Beguine to be ALL in the minor key, slashing out the key change which gives the song its musical tension and a reason for the elaborate key changes. I thought that was not only disrespectful but ineffective.

And since I have been studying and performing exclusively 1920s and 3os music for 20 years, when I decide something is inauthentic, I know what I mean, even if you don't. You are welcome to Delovely, if it makes you happy. It made me angry.

I don't have to justify my tastes to anyone, neither do you. But I do not appreciate you jumping all over me because I have a differing opinion. This is not a way to have a friendly conversation in the Lounge.

Doesn't this entire thread belong in "Radio" anyway?

 

[Miss 1940's]

I agree with my d.m.d guys

I bought the Dvd of "Delovely" for 5.00 and I wanted my 5 bucks Back.... that movie was Horrible.

I hated almost every single song in that film. Horrible renditions. I am not alone, most people I know who are into vintage music felt the same. It was so sad as they could have done a great job if they had only had a musical director who had the knowledge and the desire.

 

[Miss 1940's]

I am agreeing with Miss 1929

For these Reasons.
I think(personally) the Film didnt Give The wonderful songwriter Cole Porter any Justice, and that goes for the Music as well. If you liked the Music and Loved the Film...then good for you and thats Fine, since that music has Given you a interest in Cole Porter... then Go and Buy one of His Cd's; so then you can really Enjoy the Lovely sounds of "Begin the Beguine", " Anything Goes" and " Night and Day".
It really goes to Show when you remake, or in this case Base a story on a Figure in History, the art of the whole thing really Gets Lost.
So what have we learned.... dont mess with Perfection, and that Old Saying " if it aint Broke dont Fix it"
So lets Smoke a Peace Pipe.


:eusa_clap ...

John, John, John...
Where do I begin?

Did I say "worthless POS"? No sir, you said that This is an unfair attack.

I said, I hated it, and many people I know hated it. I didn't say you have no right to like it, so BACK OFF and LIGHTEN UP.
Here's a few specifics of why I hated it:

These are period songs, in a period movie, with people wearing period clothes, and they are singing in 1990s styles. So they are not singing in an authentic 1920s or 1930s style, as the period would demand. I go to period movies to immerse myself in the period, so this was a huge disappointment to me. I would consider the recordings of that day, or modern recordings (sans scratches is fine, Mr. Literal), that are sensitive to the style, to be authentic.

This one really bothered me a lot: they changed the MUSIC of Begin the Beguine to be ALL in the minor key, slashing out the key change which gives the song its musical tension and a reason for the elaborate key changes. I thought that was not only disrespectful but ineffective.

And since I have been studying and performing exclusively 1920s and 3os music for 20 years, when I decide something is inauthentic, I know what I mean, even if you don't. You are welcome to Delovely, if it makes you happy. It made me angry.

I don't have to justify my tastes to anyone, neither do you. But I do not appreciate you jumping all over me because I have a differing opinion. This is not a way to have a friendly conversation in the Lounge.

Doesn't this entire thread belong in "Radio" anyway?

 

[John in Covina]

I thank you for your participation, your last post gives some great insights as to the WHY you did not like the CD, that helps me understand where you are coming from and what your concerns are for the music.

What you seem to not understand is what happens when your reply acts as challange to a person's likes or dislikes. Re read your initial post to Delovely and maybe you'll catch what comes off or seems to be implied. It is that your opinion and those that you enlist (all those others) leaves me to wonder how could I have possibly enjoyed such a flawed piece of artistry.

It's not that you shouldn't have opinions, it's the crushing blow that you dealt to the music and how it connects to others / me. I just got finished saying I enjoyed it and your damning it no uncertain terms. In spite of everything you believe, I am connected to this CD as endorsing it and you flamed it totally. I am not an unconnected bystander, my opinion was very forcebly impuned along with it. The content may have been correct as to what you said but the delivery fashioned would make anyone cringe that might have enjoyed it.

Sensative? Perhaps but here are more diplomatic ways to express contention. As an excersize, I'd like you to think of one of your favorite pieces of music or album / cd and imagine that you've just written a little blurb in a thread and someone else wrote what you initially wrote but now about your favs. You just might see that the strength of the statement puts the remarks not only at the music but at the feet of those that praised it.

There are Purists in all venues and others that may simply like music. There are scholars and researchers, geniuses and even the not so brilliant but music likes and dislikes are personal and on a different level of personal intuition as it were. If you really want to make some one feel bad, go over their house, look at their collection of music and say, "I can't belive you are listening to this!' Or still listening to this or that group or that whatever.

Saying "I hate this and every one I know hates it too!" doesn't help the person's feelings much, does it?

Well enough of this! Just remember it's a whole 'nother story when your ox is gored!

 

[Brian Sheridan]

Agree on which side of the fence?

Stupidly, I did not make it clear.

I thought the soundtrack wasn't very good. The producers seem to want it both ways - to be popular but yet to have it fit into the period drama. It, for me, failed on both accounts. I don't mind modern interpretations but this collection just did not do it for me.

 

[Dr Doran]

1.) Surely we can all agree that there are some things in our lives about which we are quite purist and others about which we are not so purist.

2.) Surely we can also agree (Sarah) that there are some things which may act as a useful gateway drug to get people into the thing that we love more, into the pure thing.

Here is my example. I HATED the film Troy. HATED HATED HATED. Yet ... I'm a professional ancient historian and I love Homer. That film will bring more people into the classes that I teach now. And into classes my friends and colleagues teach all across the country. So I am grateful to the filmmakers because 10-35% of the people who saw it will drink at the pure fountain of Homer BECAUSE they saw that film. And 5% will actually take ancient Greek for at least one semester. Most will quit after one semester because it's too hard, but some will stay on and learn to read Homer in the original and there is NOTHING like reading Homer in the original.

"Upon us Zeus set a vile destiny, so that we shall be made into things of song for the men of the future."

I get goosebumps writing it, and that's just in translation (Lattimore, I believe).

And back to 1.) Further, aside from the gateway drug use, let's take music. Personally, I love the trip-hop remix by Away Team, I think, of Shirley Bassey's song "Where do I begin." So I guess I'm not a purist about that. And I like, no, love, the cover Iggy Pop and someone else (female French singer, forgot her name) of the WW2 classic song "I'll be seeing you." That's how I see songs. They are a vehicle for future generations to experiment with. I'm a little more purist about Kurt Weill, though. I get a special thrill from hearing Lotte Lenya's 1928 or so recording of Mackie Messer, but I don't mind Louis Armstrong's "Mack the Knife." (But I don't like Sinatra's much, and the live Ella recording in which she forgets the words and says the deadly phrase "It was a swingin' tune" makes my toes curl with horror.)

That's my 2 cents.

I think all of us will agree on these principles. And John, I see your point about my dear friend Sara's post: if someone said they loved a certain thing, I'd be careful about panning it lest it look as though I were panning the other person's general taste. My brother loves the film Catch Me If You Can and I thought it was lame, and I said so after he praised it, and there was an unfortunate scene at my parents' house (no escalation to blows that time, thankfully).

-- Sincerely,

Mr Peacekeeper.

 

[Miss 1929]

I had no idea...

that I was being so insensitive.
John , I will meet you halfway here - if you were truly offended by something I said, I am sorry. It was my intention to join in the discussion, not start a flame war. I don't quite see where you are coming from, but I will take your word for it that it was painful for you.
Now you need to meet me halfway and apologize for jumping all over me for no reason. you seem to still think I am trying to diss anyone's taste. Taste is purely subjective, it has no right and wrong.
Now I would NEVER think of going to someone's house and saying something judgemental, even about things I think are not only tasteless but criminal - you don't do that in someone's house. The analogy really doesn't apply to an internet chat room though, we all pay rent here.
I agree that modern interpretations may act as a gateway to approaching the real thing... but it doesn't affect in the least my feelings about the film and its music.
I imagine I would offend purists of all sorts of collecting with my opinions on things I don't know very much about. But if there was a general conversation going on about said items, and someone said they hated X that I happened to love, I would either shrug my shoulders and move on, or perhaps ask them, POLITELY, why they felt that way. I certainly wouldn't take it personally, especially not knowing if perhaps they had a more particular knowledge of the subject than I did.
So I still feel offended by the reaction. I was not attacking anyone, I wasn't saying anything in the least to suggest that anyone's taste was bad, or anything! I was talking about MY feelings, and if you can't have your own opinion without being so insecure as to be bummed out when someone has a differing opinion... I can't help that. I still don't get how one could put that interpretation on my words, but I guess if you wake up on the wrong side of the bed that day, anything can happen.

 

[John in Covina]

If you are offended well then I guess modern etiqutte says I should be sorry too.

 

[John in Covina]

Empathy.

 

[Miss 1929]

Hallelujah

Now I can sleep...