Modern Silk Topper?

[cufflinkmaniac]

I thought they weren't made anymore. Is this a scam? If this is a genuine silk topper, I may just have to get one when funding permits (quite some time:eusa_doh: ) since I cannot go vintage due to having a size 8 head.:rage:

http://uniformalwearhouse.com/apages/tuxedoahats.html (scroll down)

 

[Bird's One View]

Those hats are made of silk satin. They are for evening wear.

Formerly, top hats for day wear were made from a silk plush material which is no longer manufactured, the machinery having been destroyed.

Daywear top hats are now only made of fur felt, but there is a market for the surviving silk plush hats.

Satin is a thin, shiny, woven cloth. I've never handled the old silk plush, but from photos it looks much more substantial.

 

[cufflinkmaniac]

So for morning dress (which I may have the opportunity to wear if everything works out the way I hope it does) I'm stuck with felt? I have seen some 7 5/8 vintage toppers, but I doubt that they would work for my size. If I should, by luck or divine intervention, find a proper vintage silk plush topper in my size, could it be appropriately worn with white tie as well?

Those hats are made of silk satin. They are for evening wear.

Formerly, top hats for day wear were made from a silk plush material which is no longer manufactured, the machinery having been destroyed.

Daywear top hats are now only made of fur felt, but there is a market for the surviving silk plush hats.

 

[David V]

The silk hats on the link you provided would work for white tie. They are not as tall as I'd like but both this style and the collapsible version were intended for white tie.

 

[cufflinkmaniac]

Yes, but were I able to find a vintage plush silk topper, would it be appropriate?

The silk hats on the link you provided would work for white tie. They are not as tall as I'd like but both this style and the collapsible version were intended for white tie.

 

[Corky]

Here is another source: The Chap Magazine Shop...

Here is another source: The Chap Magazine Shop:

The real silk ones will leave you little change out of a thousand pounds, but this is the next best thing: fur mesuline has a silk-like texture, and this hat has a tall, broad crown that will tower over all other forms of headwear.

A quote from The Chap web site:

The Tate Protest
Tate Modern, London, 27th April 2006
latest issue

On a beautiful Spring morning, three men arrived at Tate Modern to attempt the unthinkable: an ascent of the South Face of Whiteread in the Turbine Hall. Ms Whiteread had spent months assembling 14,000 resin casts of an ordinary cardboard box into an impressive pile standing some sixty-seven feet high. Gustav Temple, Michael Attree and Torquil Arbuthnot gasped audibly upon first witnessing Whiteread, for it appeared to them to be the most unassailable monolith they had ever seen.

They began their ascent by studying the helpful literature supplied by Tate Modern, which explained: "The box had an emotional resonance for Whiteread. She began to explore the universal quality of the box in its widespread use as she came upon them squashed in the street, stacked in the back of a lorry or used more inventively such as for solar ovens or children's play houses. Massed together, the boxes invite parallels with the museum as a keeper of collective memory."

With such grand thoughts filling their altitude-sick minds, tragedy struck the party only ten feet from the summit. The tinny sounds of a megaphone could be heard rising through the mist. Looking down, the three men saw the base of Whiteread surrounded by security guards. Their terms were clear: descend instanter or we'll call the constabulary. A swift scrabble took the trio to the summit, where they planted the Union flag, drank a chilled martini and shared a celebratory briar, before finally agreeing to descend. Our national heroes were summarily ejected from the building, yet their faces displayed nothing but pride. They knew they had entered the history books as the first Englishmen to conquer the South Face of Whiteread, and nobody could take that away from them.


http://www.thechap.net/content/section_shop/headwear.html

 

[Charlie Huang]

Silk plush is no longer made so you must go via vintage sources. eBay has plenty and you can get one for quite a cheap price and in good condition (and have it refurbished if necessary). It is a game of patience. You can get vintage ones refurbished but these cost you £500-1500+.

It can be worn for white tie and morning dress equally.

Modern toppers are made of black fur called melusine which tries to mimic the nap of silk plush but falls short slightly. Also, it is not as black as silk as it doesn't catch the light well and cannot be polished to such a high sleek shine that silk can. They go for a few hundred quid newly made. Better ones made by Patey's can be made in 'country weight' that has a hard shell. Also, there is the 'drab shell' which is grey felt and can only be found in fur (silk is extremely rare) and should only be worn at Ascot.

Silk and fur toppers are hard so may require re-conformation for a better fit.

Collapsible toppers are only for white tie, invented because of the decreasing space in cloak rooms at the high of topper popularity. They can be either made in silk satin or silk grosgrain (ribbed). The best are made in the latter and you can get a vintage one in good condition for cheap on eBay.

I would avoid satin non-collapsible toppers given the availability of the above, plus it looks a bit 'fancy dress' and in a sea of proper toppers, it will stick out as such.

Large heads: you will have difficulty finding a silk plush topper in sizes above 7 3/8 UK. I suggest you get a new fur melusine one (£150-300) and then watch eBay like a hawk for silk in your hat size.

 

[cufflinkmaniac]

Well, I have time to wait. Even if I do have the opportunity to wear morning dress, it won't be for at least a year. So I'll hunt eBay, and pray that they have one in my size.

Silk plush is no longer made so you must go via vintage sources. eBay has plenty and you can get one for quite a cheap price and in good condition (and have it refurbished if necessary). It is a game of patience. You can get vintage ones refurbished but these cost you £500-1500+.

It can be worn for white tie and morning dress equally.

Modern toppers are made of black fur called melusine which tries to mimic the nap of silk plush but falls short slightly. Also, it is not as black as silk as it doesn't catch the light well and cannot be polished to such a high sleek shine that silk can. They go for a few hundred quid newly made. Better ones made by Patey's can be made in 'country weight' that has a hard shell. Also, there is the 'drab shell' which is grey felt and can only be found in fur (silk is extremely rare) and should only be worn at Ascot.

Silk and fur toppers are hard so may require re-conformation for a better fit.

Collapsible toppers are only for white tie, invented because of the decreasing space in cloak rooms at the high of topper popularity. They can be either made in silk satin or silk grosgrain (ribbed). The best are made in the latter and you can get a vintage one in good condition for cheap on eBay.

I would avoid satin non-collapsible toppers given the availability of the above, plus it looks a bit 'fancy dress' and in a sea of proper toppers, it will stick out as such.

Large heads: you will have difficulty finding a silk plush topper in sizes above 7 3/8 UK. I suggest you get a new fur melusine one (£150-300) and then watch eBay like a hawk for silk in your hat size.

 

[besdor]

Cufflink, you will never find a size 8 top hat on Ebay. They were never made in such a large size. Even today, the wool versions made by Bollman go up to a size XL. The only ones that may go up to an 8 are the real ones made here inthe USA. There is a company called Krieger Top Hats that make both a collapsable and a regualr top hat. Both are satin versions. Expect to see a price of at least 200$ for them.



Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

 

[cufflinkmaniac]

Just my luck to be have such a huge head.:eusa_doh: I suppose for morning dress at least, I will go sans hat.

Cufflink, you will never find a size 8 top hat on Ebay. They were never made in such a large size. Even today, the wool versions made by Bollman go up to a size XL. The only ones that may go up to an 8 are the real ones made here inthe USA. There is a company called Krieger Top Hats that make both a collapsable and a regualr top hat. Both are satin versions. Expect to see a price of at least 200$ for them.



Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

 

[Charlie Huang]

I forgot about your hat size; a 7 7/8 UK! Extremely rare topper size indeed...

I suggest you get a Christys' fur melusine topper as they do it in that size:

http://www.hornetshats.com/f_hatview.php?link=Top Hats

They are the cheapest on the market; I would go for the 6 1/4" crown to balance the wideness of the size. £210 is reasonable (Lock's would be £550, Patey's probably the same or even higher though they do make it to your specs). For the standard 5 1/4", it is £165 but the extra height is worth it IMHO. They also crop up on eBay as well so do take a look and you could knock a few tens of pounds off the price and even have a hat box to boot.

Again, avoid satin hard top hats as they do not have gravitas beyond the circus ring (they will have a side seam on the crown which gives it away). The mesuline is the closest to silk plush and you want it to be that. Trust me, plain satin is no match for fur melusine and silk plush.

BTW, what event are you going to? If it is a wedding, note that toppers are carried and not worn (according to Ede & Ravenscroft).

 

[cufflinkmaniac]

Hm, if I do indeed need one, I will save for the Christy's melusine topper with the extra height. But, since the event would indeed be a wedding, I may just get a vintage topper on eBay and then just carry the thing as you said, then either keep or rebay it. I will indeed stay away from the satin toppers.

Oh, does one carry that hat even if outside?

I forgot about your hat size; a 7 7/8 UK! Extremely rare topper size indeed...

I suggest you get a Christys' fur melusine topper as they do it in that size:

http://www.hornetshats.com/f_hatview.php?link=Top Hats

They are the cheapest on the market; I would go for the 6 1/4" crown to balance the wideness of the size. £210 is reasonable (Lock's would be £550, Patey's probably the same or even higher though they do make it to your specs). For the standard 5 1/4", it is £165 but the extra height is worth it IMHO. They also crop up on eBay as well so do take a look and you could knock a few tens of pounds off the price and even have a hat box to boot.

Again, avoid satin hard top hats as they do not have gravitas beyond the circus ring (they will have a side seam on the crown which gives it away). The mesuline is the closest to silk plush and you want it to be that. Trust me, plain satin is no match for fur melusine and silk plush.

BTW, what event are you going to? If it is a wedding, note that toppers are carried and not worn (according to Ede & Ravenscroft).

 

[Charlie Huang]

Also forgot to mention, there is a fourth type: wool felt. These are mass produced for the trendy high street market and are not worth touching, especially for serious wear. However, I would rank them above a satin topper as one can get away with it for the untrained eye as long as it is well made.

I would rank in this order of quality:

1. Silk plush
2. Fur melusine
3. Silk grosgrain collapsible (white tie only)
4. Drab fur felt (Ascot only)
5. Silk satin collapsible (white tie only)
6. Wool felt
7. Silk satin

I have not included livery toppers as we aren't butlers or doormen.

Crown height should be over 5 1/4". 5 1/2" is better; anything lower and it slips into the realm of equestrian wear.

 

[Charlie Huang]

So it's for a wedding.

I'm only going by E&R's words (which I have yet to verify) but I suppose if you are the groom, and in America, you can.

Actually, what the hell! Go for it and wear a topper! If you're going through all this trouble to get the morning dress right (and I assume you are the groom or at least part of the main wedding party) then might as well pull all the stops out!

But normal rules apply; take off indoors, put on out.

 

[cufflinkmaniac]

If the wedding occurs, I will be cousin to the bride. She knows abut morning dress (thanks to moi) and she will likely have the men in each family wear morning dress, or at least strollers (black lounge in BrE I think?) at my urging (she and I are close enough for me to give advice in matters such as this.) In case of the latter, I will go for a homburg instead of a topper. The possible groom would likely rent toppers for himself and the groomsmen as well, though I may try to convince him to get a vintage plush topper so I do not upstage him.

So it's for a wedding.

I'm only going by E&R's words (which I have yet to verify) but I suppose if you are the groom, and in America, you can.

Actually, what the hell! Go for it and wear a topper! If you're going through all this trouble to get the morning dress right (and I assume you are the groom or at least part of the main wedding party) then might as well pull all the stops out!

But normal rules apply; take off indoors, put on out.

 

[Charlie Huang]

He should defo get silk plush indeed. They are cheap if you have the patience to find one (don't pay for the £150+ ones and instead watch the ones with a low starting bid and look at the pictures to see that the condition is good; no damage to plush, little or no wear on the crown edges and grosgrain bindings and riband, intact sweatband, etc). If he's lucky enough to score one that fits perfectly, he won't have to re-conform it. EBay 'vintage silk top hat', 'silk top hat', etc. Many I have seen come from Holland via decline in formal ocassions on the Continent. Best time to buy is after June 20th (when Royal Ascot ends and a flood of them would probably be listed on eBay). May - June; prices likely to get higher as Ascot draws near.

He should also get a velvet pad to polish it (and maybe a soft bristle hat brush to get rid of the dust and grim beforehand). I think I posted polishing instruction somewhere on this forum (or was it Ask Andy?) of how to make it slick as vinyl using water. He will definately stand out as top dog if he follows my instructions.