Moderators not doing their jobs...

[LizzieMaine]

I think a very big part of the success of the Lounge is that members know they're held responsible for anything they say, and they're willing to step up and accept that responsibility: there's something about that simple truth that tends to bring out the *adult* in one, and with it an acceptably adult standard of behavior. The culture of irresponsible anonymity that dominates the net, on the other hand, brings out the twelve-year-old -- and I for one am glad we don't have any of those around here.

 

[Fletch]

Sadly, not all moderators are as adult and responsible as those we're blessed with. If jealousy, belligerence, etc., play a part in the culture the forum covers, and if mods are active participants in that culture, they can just as easily pass on those attitudes as discourage them. Sometimes even as they act in the supposed best interests of the forum.

I used to participate on a clarinet forum dominated by orchestral freelancers. Now, the clarinet is a joy to play well, but murder to play virtuosically – and orchestras only need 2 or 3 each, so it's a particularly cutthroat corner of an already tough business. When I began questioning the prevailing attitudes (and rather pitiless they are, too) towards students, teaching methods, etc., the mods weren't particularly happy – especially considering that some of the hardest-line opinions on those topics had come from the mods themselves!

I eventually was persuaded to leave that board, altho I do visit infrequently. Being "adult" and "responsible" in that context meant not rocking the boat – at least not unless you had some credentials in the world of classical music, which I admitted I didn't have. (A couple of well known British players later raised some of the same points I had and didn't cause nearly the ruckus I did.)

 

[Tomasso]

I wonder if it's partly down to needing a real e-mail address to use the Lounge?

Without doubt, this requirement is a very efficient troll filter.

 

[Flitcraft]

Just checked out AutoAdmit for myself- that's a pretty horrendous site!
Some of what's posted is seriously slanderous.
As far as free speech is concerned, I didn't think there was anything that would allow some of the garbage that's posted there.
I can't believe potential employers would even waste their time reading it!
Thank goodness for Fedora Lounge Bartenders!

 

[Tango Yankee]

I also have to agree that the atmosphere created by the rules and moderators who enforce them make this the most enjoyable forum I've been a member of.

When I bought a PT Cruiser in 2004 I joined a PT Cruiser forum. During the build-up to the presidential election the non-PT Cruiser part of the forum became a very nasty place to visit. I finally sent the forum owner an e-mail asking him if this was the sort of thing he really wanted on his forum, considering the last rule he had was to "be nice." I then went fishing. When I came back I found that politics had been banned, and that the only people who were complaining about it were those who were the nastiest. Everyone else was happy about it. I guess it must have tainted even this forum a bit, what with having the sticky notice about politics being banned.

The same thing happened on a Farmall/International Harvester forum.

I guess politics have always been a touchy subject (hence the old advice to avoid religion and politics as topics) but it seems to me that the combination of the country becoming deeply divided on many issues and the annonominity of internet forums really brought out the worst in many people.

Personally, I think it's all just part of the general degradation of good manners and style that began with the phasing out of hat wearing!

Bartenders, add to the chorus my thanks to you for an excellent job! Well done!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Paisley]

Just checked out AutoAdmit for myself- that's a pretty horrendous site!
Some of what's posted is seriously slanderous.
As far as free speech is concerned, I didn't think there was anything that would allow some of the garbage that's posted there.
I can't believe potential employers would even waste their time reading it!
Thank goodness for Fedora Lounge Bartenders!

I didn't look at the site, but it sounds like the equivalent of grafitti on a men's room wall. Do law firms check those, too, when they are screening female applicants? Do they believe everything they read on the internet? My take on this is that the ladies who were denied employment based on the content on the AutoAdmit site may have gotten a blessing in disguise.

And I second the praise for the bartenders here. Three cheers!

 

[TaxiGirl]

A hearty second to all of this... I've only been on this forum a few days, but I've been on various online fora for perhaps fourteen years, and this is possibly the most CIVILIZED place I've ever seen.

 

[Dan G]

I'm no flower child, but people are hateful!

The internet creates a certain anonymous feeling that produces a lot of armchair commandoes and chairborne rangers. People think the're big stuff. That's one of the neatest things about the Lounge, we have a regular opportunity to meet each other and interact in person, and while I haven't yet I look forward to doing so!

Take a look at Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda. The best of friends yet Stewart was conservative and Fonda was liberal. I remember reading that this kind of interaction between Henry and his friends created a lot of animosity between him and his daughter Jane. The difference in a generation...

 

[Chanfan]

It's all a question of trade offs…

And getting the effort that's put into things, I imagine.

This place is pretty nice, and pretty well behaved. Hopefully it will continue to be so - I would be surprised, however, if there weren't some bumps along the way, as lots of folks will influx from the magazine.

Internet newsgroups, for example, were at one time, very civil places of focused interest. Now many (most) are rendered unusable by spam and changing interest and technology.

I've seen special interest mailing lists that vary between well behaved and interesting, to rude and pointlessly off topic.

One list I'm on, for fans of historical nautical fiction (specifically Patrick O'Brian) is pretty well moderated, and full of interesting folks, many of them authors. It's been a joy. Similar to here, politics (and religion) have been banned as topics in general, and the members are pretty well committed to keeping things civil.

Another successful list, in a different way, is a technical resource list for Managers of Macintosh computers (as in IT type folk). It has fairly brutal policies. Posts that are off topic will get you warned, banned or kicked. Questions that can be found in the FAQ, the list archives, or in an easy internet search, will likewise get you warned, banned or kicked. You ask a question, folks reply directly to you (or get warned, etc.), and then you are required to post a summary of the answers and what worked for you (or you get warned, etc).

It's draconian, and a bit brusque, but it works amazingly well at it's purposes - keeping the "signal to noise ratio" good (nothing off topic), getting tough questions answered quickly; keeping the answers for later in a well organized fashion, and preventing the lazy from using the list as a first resort, instead of a last.

 

[Benny Holiday]

The bartenders here render a great service, and MK and his team do a superb job of smoothing out those 'bumps' that do occur from time to time. Kudos to you all.

As this forum is for people who share a common interest in, even a love of, hats, vintage clothing, movies, music, etc - all things 'Golden Era' - I have to admit I would've been very disppointed if I'd found posting to be uncivil. The rest of the world all too often sees us and our interests as 'oddball' - at the very least we should stick together and enjoy talking about our shared interests and exchange information and advice, which is precisely what I find here.

And I've come across some folks who inspire me with their sense of style, others whose sense of humour makes me laugh and some who I imagine I'd be great friends with if we lived closer, like Major Nick and Flat-top. The FL is an oasis of decorum and cool style in a world (real world and cyber-world) of rudeness and sweat pants.

 

[Parallel Guy]

Being civil is way underrated. Too often people mistake being rude for standing up for thier rights. Unfortunately, we've come to yield to those who yell the loudest and believe that volume equals passion. Soft confidence is and always has been more impressive.

 

[Fletch]

(some bboard or other) sounds like the equivalent of grafitti on a men's room wall. Do law firms check those, too, when they are screening female applicants? Do they believe everything they read on the internet?

No. Employers generally believe only the bad stuff.

 

[Phil]

fftopic: Funny thing about that. I was in the bathroom today and I was just thinking that stall walls are like the primative brother of internet forums.

 

[Fletch]

I hope that doesn't imply that, had the FL existed in the actual Golden Era, it would have been a public toilet...

 

[Phil]

Maybe not the FL, but other various, less sophisticated fourms might have been.

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

here's a thread I like. Go bartenders and moderators! If only there were a real lounge. I'd live in it.

 

[Diamondback]

Well, I'm not exactly "anonymous"--while my handle isn't the name on my birth certificate, it IS my "call sign", and so much a part of who I am that I actually answer to it more readily than the name registered to "the slab of meat I control".

If anything, I'm another who's more restrained online--I prefer to spare folks who I actually have some sense of "community" with the trauma of seeing my response when I believe a situation demands a full verbal broadside: the only thing sharper than my tongue is my fangs, and I really do prefer that neither see the light of day.

 

[RedPop4]

There's a good deal of irony in what I'm reading, and what I believe concerning free speech and the founding of this nation. I've heard it stated, many times and places, that the Founding Fathers of the United Sta tes intended the guarantee of freedom of speech to be political speech. This is what I've read for years: that they didn't intend for porn to become rampant, and other less than tactful things, either.

Anyway, many forums are banning or censoring political discourse because of the tensions it causes. Here we have the great democratizer.....as long as one has access one can post one's opinion just about at will to a world wide audience, and the admin's of sites all over the place are struggling with.

 

[Lady Day]

There's a good deal of irony in what I'm reading, and what I believe concerning free speech and the founding of this nation. I've heard it stated, many times and places, that the Founding Fathers of the United Sta tes intended the guarantee of freedom of speech to be political speech. This is what I've read for years: that they didn't intend for porn to become rampant, and other less than tactful things, either.

Anyway, many forums are banning or censoring political discourse because of the tensions it causes. Here we have the great democratizer.....as long as one has access one can post one's opinion just about at will to a world wide audience, and the admin's of sites all over the place are struggling with.

Very well said, sir.

People cant talk about politics, its a debate of yelling your belief in order to convince the other party. And how often does that work? Um, never, so both end up yelling :eusa_doh:

Here its a relief to have that gone, and that tension gone, and that enjoyment for people who just came to chat about hats to have a place to do so.

Personally, I chat about dresses

LD

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Being civil is way underrated. Too often people mistake being rude for standing up for thier rights. Unfortunately, we've come to yield to those who yell the loudest and believe that volume equals passion. Soft confidence is and always has been more impressive.

First, let me add my vote of praise for both the moderators and the users here for developing and maintaining a very civil, courteous place.

Parallel Guy has a great point. I've talked with friends about this sort of thing quite a bit recently, and we're generally of the opinion that rational, civil discourse and discussion is becoming a thing of the past. It's clearly evidenced by what passes for "debate" or "discussion" on television, radio, etc. We were raised that in a discussion about something like politics, one would state your position and the supporting evidence or logic, and then politely give someone else their turn to speak, etc. Nowadays, all we ever seem to see are groups of people interrupting, screaming at each other, insulting them, etc. THAT's debate? Not in my book.

It does, indeed, seem as if the prevailing opinion is "If I can scream at you until you give up, then I win." Logical arguments? Nah. Politeness? Never. Listening to the other person's side of things? Not a chance.

Maybe I'm just turning into an old fogey, but I miss those things...

So thank heavens for great places like this site!