Missing Members

[martinsantos]

That FL has survived in the age of Facebook and other social media is itself worthy of study. Facebook in particular seems bent on crushing all others.

Fully agree, Tony!

FL is the only big forum I know with considerable number of active members. Probably less than 11 years ago when I found it, but impressive anyway.

 

[tonyb]

Fully agree, Tony!

FL is the only big forum I know with considerable number of active members. Probably less than 11 years ago when I found it, but impressive anyway.

I can’t say I’d paid much attention to population levels around here, until you mentioned it, although I do occasionally note how few of the people (and robots) checking in here are actually members. Must be Google searches and the like that has them stopping by. No?

In this and other threads we’ve discussed how the place has changed over the years. I’ve opined that some of those changes are for the worse but most are for the better. In the 15-plus years I’ve been a member nearly all of those with firsthand memories of the “Golden Era” have shuffled off. We’ve also discussed how the people who were dealing with adult realities during the Depression and the War (those folks are almost entirely gone now) were happy to put those times behind them. For all but the most elderly of us here (or those whose parents didn’t get around to procreating until they were almost too old for it) those people were at least two generations ahead of us.

 

[tonyb]

And …

I look back to the beginnings of this thread, to the summer of ’06, and see how many of the then-active participants are no longer contributing.

 

[belfastboy]

I can’t say I’d paid much attention to population levels around here, until you mentioned it, although I do occasionally note how few of the people (and robots) checking in here are actually members. Must be Google searches and the like that has them stopping by. No?

In this and other threads we’ve discussed how the place has changed over the years. I’ve opined that some of those changes are for the worse but most are for the better. In the 15-plus years I’ve been a member nearly all of those with firsthand memories of the “Golden Era” have shuffled off. We’ve also discussed how the people who were dealing with adult realities during the Depression and the War (those folks are almost entirely gone now) were happy to put those times behind them. For all but the most elderly of us here (or those whose parents didn’t get around to procreating until they were almost too old for it) those people were at least two generations ahead of us.

Anyone remember what the peak membership was...back in the day?

 

[tonyb]

Anyone remember what the peak membership was...back in the day?

Perhaps that day is today(?) I dunno if that’s so, but isn’t it that most wouldn’t do whatever it might take to terminate their membership, but rather just stop checking in? So that they’d still be on the rolls?

I’m happy for those with a financial interest that we are now subjected to advertising. It’s really not too much to ask of us. All God’s chilluns gots bills to pay.

 

[ChiTownScion]

A few random thoughts.

I'm not going to lie, and I'm not going to name names as regard this first point. But there are two individuals who have disappeared from the FL scene and I'm not lamenting any loss at their departure. I wish them no ill will, but not having to deal with their nonsense has made my life in the Lounge a lot more enjoyable. Bear in mind, I never interacted with either of them. Their manner in dealing with others killed any inclination on my part to do so.

On a more positive note (in one sense, I suppose) there are those who I miss sorely, and I won't hesitate to name two of them. SheepLady (correct name?) was always articulate and gracious, and her posts were a pure joy to read. There was also a young lady (from Croatia, I believe) named StrayCat who just came across as a genuinely sweet and decent individual. She would talk about aspects of her daily life and experiences in a very winsome manner. And then one day, she just vanished.

I keep coming back because, well, I always learn a lot here. Remember those late-night discussions with fellow students from our undergrad days? Sometimes, the person whom you'd least suspect it from could present the most thought-provoking comments. One could learn more from a peer than from a prof in college: that's one aspect that made those years so enjoyable. Whether it's history, literature, the arts, or fashion, what I find is unique and wonderful. Long may it continue.

 

[tonyb]

More than a few have succumbed to illnesses (as the no-longer-young Linda Ronstadt not so long ago observed, sooner or later something’s gonna get ya), and some are currently living with life-threatening conditions.

As Linda Ronstadt not so long ago observed …

Part of what keeps me coming back is the company of people in similar straits as mine, people who know what a gift their lives have been, no matter the obstacles along the way.

And really, I know of no other place to find people with whom I share so many interests in vintage swag. Sure, there are other online groups devoted to more specific aspects of bygone times, and I occasionally venture over their way. But I have a casual interest in lots of vintage things in which I’ll never gain any real expertise, and I appreciate those with that knowledge passing a bit of it on to me. I hope that in at least some small way I’ve returned the favor.

 

[Harp]

Remember those late-night discussions with fellow students from our undergrad days? One could learn more from a peer than from a prof in college: that's one aspect that made those years so enjoyable.

Profs and classes bored the hell out of me. Except this lovely lit exquisite assistant, whose lectures I seldom
attended. Played hooky since the campus scene couldn't compare to Chicago.
She became upset over my tardiness so I promised to attend faithfully. Next day she pulled out
the Socratic method, but only called me even though I never raised my hand. And nobody else
volunteered. After I correctly answered three or four questions she grew frustrated and directly
asked if she was boring me. I honestly replied that she could never bore me.
Could have heard a dollar bill float down and crash the floor.
Her beautiful face turned bright crimson.
I asked her to dinner later inside her office.
She declined. But the academic dean sent me a note, needed a talk.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Anyone knows, if @Knotten is doing well??

 

[MK]

I'm just happy the joint is still open after all these years. I had no idea when I created a little forum with a couple dozen refuges from the Indiana Jones world who had interest in the golden era beyond one fictional character that it would grow to what it's become and still going strong decades later.

 

[Frunobulax]

I'm just happy the joint is still open after all these years. I had no idea when I created a little forum with a couple dozen refuges from the Indiana Jones world who had interest in the golden era beyond one fictional character that it would grow to what it's become and still going strong decades later.

Well..thank you.

 

[Harp]

I'm just happy the joint is still open after all these years. I had no idea when I created a little forum with a couple dozen refuges from the Indiana Jones world who had interest in the golden era beyond one fictional character that it would grow to what it's become and still going strong decades later.

Thank you sir.

 

[tonyb]

Hats — vintage, custom or otherwise — off to the moderators whose efforts have kept this place from becoming yet another vector for misinformation.

 

[Edward]

Also the curious effect created by social media, facebook for +40, Instagram and others for youngsters. They took much of the forums public. This happened with me, btw. Started back to visit FL after being tired/irritated with Facebook and its electronic warriors.

It's certainly true that there's a lot going on on social media. I have several groups I see posts from on there. The sad thing is that, for all social media can be "forever" for those public figures who may make an ill-judged comment (or have done so in their youth), it really is not a great place for the organisation of or retention of information like a traditional forum.

Interestingly, younger kids I now teach, at least my law undergrads, have often moved away from social media or have accounts but use them very sparingly. There's a much bigger wariness of data harvesting there than among my peers. (This may increase as it seems the current aim in the UK is to lower data protection standards for perceived trade advantage post-Brexit, though that will inevitably complicate things for those trading with the EU.) I keep wondering whether they'll 'come back' to the traditional forum. Wouldn't be surprised, I mean, if the cassette tape can mount a nostalgic comeback...

For certain, the 20s- early 60s period which this place has, at the extremes of either end, tended to cover in my time, is not fashionable as once it was. The hot period for "vintage" in my experience here in London for the last twenty years has been the eighties, and now touching into the nineties. I'm sure that will change again at some point - all it will take will be a big, new hit, like Peaky Blinders raised interest in at least a version of the inter-war period in England.

I think another thing that has inevitably hit this area of interest is the whole complicated nature of "vintage", the increasing rarity of original pieces from that period, and the rise of repro. It's no longer something that is cheap and easy to get into: for those who aren't lucky enough to be the size people were back then, it's rare to find something you can fit, and if you do it's unaffordable, and if you can afford it it's unwearable.... if you can afford it, and it does fit, by this point a near century old suit can, for many of us, be a chore to wear in that there's always the constant concern something will be spilled on it, or it'll get mothed, or otherwise ruined, and then *I'm* the one who Destroyed History.... logical or no, it's a real anxiety. In the last few years, I've finally begun to see the rise of affordable, decent men's repro clothing from the c.1920-c.1959 period (oddly, Sixties are still very readily available, I guess there's a big underground Mod community). Where that hasn't always helped to bring people into the "vintage community" has been the elitism. I've been at events where people have sneered at the "Collectif Massive", or taken offense at the very notion of someone wearing reproduction even being allowed to enter "best dressed". That sort of elitism (both financial and, in many cases, to do with simple body physicality in the end) does not attract newbies, or keep them around often.

All that said, though, I suspect in the end it's the vagaries of fashion, and that will come round in time. The scene around The CHap magazine here in the UK is smaller than it was ten years ago, we've gone back underground in a way, but it does still attract younger folks here and there who 'get it', and I think is building up a little on where we were pre-pandemic.

Speaking of the pandemic, I wonder whether that might ultimately revive things a bit: after so long, a lot of people really want to go out again... I was at my first big gathering in nearly three years last week, a series of graduation ceremonies for the graduating classes of 2020 and 2021, and so many people remarked on how much it boosted them to be able to celebrate those achievements in a way we hadn't yet been able.

Another thing that I think may well boost interest in vintage styles again is the emergence of the so-called "slow fashion" concept. Buy less, spend a bit more and buy better... A lot of folks I know who got into vintage at a time, save for those whose point of entry was the music (mainly the rockabilly crowd; the Lindy set round here never seemed much interested in the clothes - or even the music outside of dancing to it), were initially attracted by the idea of finding something that looked cool but was durable. Back in the eighties, original fifties stuff was available for buttons in charity shops over here... Sure, Slow Fashion is often far from cheap, but as the pendulum swings against fast fashion, I think there's an emerging market of people who are prepared to pay a bit more and want something higher quality. SJC and other brands have emerged and are doing as well out of this as they are those of us interested in a specifically vintage look. The wheel will turn back our way at some point.

I can’t say I’d paid much attention to population levels around here, until you mentioned it, although I do occasionally note how few of the people (and robots) checking in here are actually members. Must be Google searches and the like that has them stopping by. No?

In this and other threads we’ve discussed how the place has changed over the years. I’ve opined that some of those changes are for the worse but most are for the better. In the 15-plus years I’ve been a member nearly all of those with firsthand memories of the “Golden Era” have shuffled off. We’ve also discussed how the people who were dealing with adult realities during the Depression and the War (those folks are almost entirely gone now) were happy to put those times behind them. For all but the most elderly of us here (or those whose parents didn’t get around to procreating until they were almost too old for it) those people were at least two generations ahead of us.

This mirrors my experience with a 50s weekender we've gone to for a few years (though missed the last couple, obviously). The original acts have all gone now as the performers have passed on or are now too old to travel, their places taken by younger performers who are not covers artists but are keeping a particular subculture alive through making new music in that style. The audience (save, of course, for a small hardcore who refuse to listen to any music that was not 'made' - i.e. recorded - in the actual fifties) has predominantly moved with this too. It's a definite shift from people looking back on their own youth to a form of nostalgia for a time before people were born. Of course this always brings with it some element of revivalist fantasy (nobody who dresses Victorian wants to be of the servant classes; many people on the rockabilly scene dress much "younger" than they would have in the fifties) and so on, and so on, but I don't see that as necessarily a *bad* thing in a scene which will always have an element of 'fancy dress' about it for many (those of us who want to dress that way day and daily aren't necessarily representative of the mainstream of it, I suspect - albeit a bigger group than I tend to see among any post-Sixties revivalism).

 

[Edward]

A few random thoughts.

I'm not going to lie, and I'm not going to name names as regard this first point. But there are two individuals who have disappeared from the FL scene and I'm not lamenting any loss at their departure. I wish them no ill will, but not having to deal with their nonsense has made my life in the Lounge a lot more enjoyable. Bear in mind, I never interacted with either of them. Their manner in dealing with others killed any inclination on my part to do so.

Alas, I think any online space attracts the same. It's amazing how some people can bring joy to a room by entering it - and others simply by leaving.

On a more positive note (in one sense, I suppose) there are those who I miss sorely, and I won't hesitate to name two of them. SheepLady (correct name?) was always articulate and gracious, and her posts were a pure joy to read. There was also a young lady (from Croatia, I believe) named StrayCat who just came across as a genuinely sweet and decent individual. She would talk about aspects of her daily life and experiences in a very winsome manner. And then one day, she just vanished.

Missed indeed. Of late a few folks who were here a decade ago have dropped past; perhaps more of these folks will return as they find more time.

I keep coming back because, well, I always learn a lot here. Remember those late-night discussions with fellow students from our undergrad days? Sometimes, the person whom you'd least suspect it from could present the most thought-provoking comments. One could learn more from a peer than from a prof in college: that's one aspect that made those years so enjoyable. Whether it's history, literature, the arts, or fashion, what I find is unique and wonderful. Long may it continue.

The great thing about a forum like this is as a repository of a personal level of knowledge too, and long may that continue. It's about keeping alive the stories that would otherwise be lost to history. I remember Ben Stephens, who posted here some years ago, once telling me about a neighbour of his who had stormed the beaches on D-Day, survived, and drove an Army jeep to Berlin. As I recall the story, his newly issued boots were killing him, and he swapped them with a French farmer for a pair of comfy slippers in which he drove all the way to Berlin. My wife's late grandfather whom I sadly never met was sent to North Africa. By a certain point in the war, he and his mates found their boots were worse than worn out - so they buried them beside the pyramids, reckoning on claiming they'd been lost, and they could get news ones. They were nearly court martialed for this. When my wife was thirteen, her grandparents took her to Egypt and he showed her the area they buried the boots in. I wonder if they are still there! These are the sort of personal, on-the-ground, stories that bring the reality of the war alive that really shouldn't be lost to history - and many of which have been recorded here. Long may that continue both here and through folks like Harry & Edna's Home Front Heroes here in the UK who do what they can to preserve these stories, often with artefacts given them for just that purpose by an older generation, slowly passing on now, who find there's no interest in them in the family. One such I recall was a wartime Christmas present given the donee as a child - a bracelet made of acorn shells, delicately hand-painted.

 

[tonyb]

I’m probably as guilty as anyone of stretching the “era” beyond the 1940s.

But in defense of that I note that so much of what is commonly thought postwar modernism predates the war, by a couple decades in some cases. The Bauhaus, the “crucible of modernism,” opened in 1919. Almost all the “name” modernists were born late in the 19th century or very early in the 20th, so most predate the “greatest generation.”

 

[ChiTownScion]

Alas, I think any online space attracts the same. It's amazing how some people can bring joy to a room by entering it - and others simply by leaving.

Did a little arithmetic about one of those unnamed Gone But Not Lamented individuals to whom I referred. He was a prolific poster, and yet few seem to have liked what he had to say (or perhaps, how he said it). His probability of getting a "like" on a post was 890.3114754098361 to one. I'd submit that others here beside myself do not exactly lament the loss of the guy.

 

[GHT]

The great thing about a forum like this is as a repository of a personal level of knowledge too, and long may that continue.

Back in my college days we had extra curriculum courses. One of our cohort, when asked what he had learned from said course, had us in fits when he replied: "Now I know how to pronounce, 'Courvoisier!' " Apparently he had overheard one of us, (me probably,) asking for brandy, by name, when at the bar.

 

[tonyb]

Did a little arithmetic about one of those unnamed Gone But Not Lamented individuals to whom I referred. He was a prolific poster, and yet few seem to have liked what he had to say (or perhaps, how he said it). His probability of getting a "like" on a post was 890.3114754098361 to one. I'd submit that others here beside myself do not exactly lament the loss of the guy.

However, wasn’t it relatively recently that the ”like” feature was added, and that most of that person’s posts predated it?

 

[Harp]

Back in my college days we had extra curriculum courses. One of our cohort, when asked what he had learned from said course, had us in fits when he replied: "Now I know how to pronounce, 'Courvoisier!' " Apparently he had overheard one of us, (me probably,) asking for brandy, by name, when at the bar.

At first glance I thought your classmate referred to the infamous 1840 Old Bailey case, Courvoisier
which firmly established the right to defense against accusation in common law.
Irish silk Charles Phillips knowingly defended a guilty man and paid debt in the court of public opinion.

Courvoisier, the brandy of Napoleon. And Josephine.