Midnight blue

[PADDY]

Vintage early 40's SB Peak lapel Midnight Blue

Just 'look' at 'how black' that blue looks under artificial light (I used a flash and close up to show the actual 'blueness' of the fabric). Allegedly, it was Edward VIII (8th), the infamous Duke of Windsor who abdicated for the love of an American lady, who launched the trend of the midnight blue dinner suit, as it appeared blacker under artificial light at night-time.

 

[Fletch]

Midnight blue had caught on by at least 1936, the year of a pop song by that title...
Midnight blue had painted shadows on our rendezvous
I couldn't speak as I beheld you in wonder, under the midnight blue

Now am I imagining, or does it traditionally have a faint ultramarine cast? That I think is what separates it from deep navies, like USN Blue 3346 (about a kittywhisker from black).

 

[jamespowers]

Perhaps it is just me and I cannot tell the difference but I took out all eight of my midnight blue tuxedos dating from the 30s to the 50s and they all have what appears to be black lapels and stripes down the leg. That seems to be par for the course as far as my closet is concerned. [huh] Any sources that say the lapels and stripes should match the jacket color?
Even the examples shown seem to have black lapels.[huh]

 

[scotrace]

Well, now I gotta go back and look this evening.

 

[Tomasso]

Any sources that say the lapels and stripes should match the jacket color?

Don't know, but this rig belonged to the gent who invented midnight blue formal wear.

 

[jamespowers]

Well, now I gotta go back and look this evening.

When I think about it further, it makes more sense to have black lapels because it is far easier to find a black tie of the same material and texture than it is to find one in the exact shade of midnight blue. However, you can wear a black tie even if it is a midnight blue with the same color lapels etc.--at least that's what they say over at the style forum.
Now if you were having this custom made for you then the problem would be solved as you could have a few bowties made from the same material along with a few vests.

 

[jamespowers]

Don't know, but this rig belonged to the gent who invented midnight blue formal wear.

Looks black to me, which also brings to mind the shoes. You certainly are going to have a hard time finding MB opera pumps. The black gives it a contrasting break and makes for easier matching of accessories. The inventor doesn't seem to have a problem with that either.

 

[Orgetorix]

IMO, black accessories--tie, cummerbund, shoes--are no problem with midnight blue evening wear, because they're separate pieces. My problem is when you combine the two different colors in the same garment. The difference in color is obvious because the fabrics are sewn together, and I personally think it looks bad.

In my opinion, evening dress achieves the punch of its elegant visual appeal because of the starkness of the black-and-white, monochrome color palette. It works precisely because there are no other colors present. (Incidentally, this is why I'm against colored ties, cummerbunds, etc.) When you mix two different colors--black and blue--in the same garment, the visual unity of the style is thrown off-kilter and one's elegance suffers.

I'm not arguing that it hasn't been done before; I'm not saying it's not an acceptable option or even a correct one. I'm just saying I think it looks bad. And that goes for the Duke's dress suit, too.

 

[reetpleat]

IMO, black accessories--tie, cummerbund, shoes--are no problem with midnight blue evening wear, because they're separate pieces. My problem is when you combine the two different colors in the same garment. The difference in color is obvious because the fabrics are sewn together, and I personally think it looks bad.

In my opinion, evening dress achieves the punch of its elegant visual appeal because of the starkness of the black-and-white, monochrome color palette. It works precisely because there are no other colors present. (Incidentally, this is why I'm against colored ties, cummerbunds, etc.) When you mix two different colors--black and blue--in the same garment, the visual unity of the style is thrown off-kilter and one's elegance suffers.

I'm not arguing that it hasn't been done before; I'm not saying it's not an acceptable option or even a correct one. I'm just saying I think it looks bad. And that goes for the Duke's dress suit, too.

In theory, I might agree. But the whole point of midnight blue is that it reads as black, rather than a washed out dark gray that black can sometimes read as. If it read as blue, then I would agree.

 

[reetpleat]

I know that this isn't what you said you wanted, but I would suggest buying a vintage dinner suit. The reason is simple. Shawl collar black tuxedos are the most common I see and least desirable. I generally only pick them up in a thrift store if they are perfect, good size and under twenty bucks. we are talking 40s 50s maybe early 60s extremely well made suits.

and they are so undesirable that I am sure they could be had on ebay or at your local thrift store for cheap or your local vintage shop for not much more. they may not carry many as they are not desirable. But if you tell the owners of a few places youare looking for a certain style and size, they may be able to find you one for maybe seventy five or a hundred bucks.

Heck, I probably have three our four you could have for fifty if i have your size.

As for the lapel, I like shawl collar just fine, but I don't think grosgrain would look good. It might look okay, but I have never seen shawl collar with grosgrain that i can recall, and think it would look funny both because it is uncommon, and also, something about the shawl style seems like it would not work.

also, if you are having a jacket made, you should get the pants made too. A white jacket you can get done alone, but black or blue will need matching pants.

 

[jamespowers]

I know that this isn't what you said you wanted, but I would suggest buying a vintage dinner suit. The reason is simple. Shawl collar black tuxedos are the most common I see and least desirable. I generally only pick them up in a thrift store if they are perfect, good size and under twenty bucks. we are talking 40s 50s maybe early 60s extremely well made suits.

That is a good point. You can find vintage tuxedos and tails for very little money---in any style you want---especially the midnight blue with black lapels etc. because people think "it looks bad." I have picked up numerous tuxedos (I don't want to even count:eusa_doh: ) because they were so cheap and the sizes were right. I nailed this one for $22.50!:

It must have been wilt Chamberlains old tux though as the legs are waaaayyy too long for me.
This was actually fortuitous for me as it was advertised as "black." Its midnight blue with a black accoutrements. I'll take it and like it.

 

[jamespowers]

IMO, black accessories--tie, cummerbund, shoes--are no problem with midnight blue evening wear, because they're separate pieces. My problem is when you combine the two different colors in the same garment. The difference in color is obvious because the fabrics are sewn together, and I personally think it looks bad.

In my opinion, evening dress achieves the punch of its elegant visual appeal because of the starkness of the black-and-white, monochrome color palette. It works precisely because there are no other colors present. (Incidentally, this is why I'm against colored ties, cummerbunds, etc.) When you mix two different colors--black and blue--in the same garment, the visual unity of the style is thrown off-kilter and one's elegance suffers.

I'm not arguing that it hasn't been done before; I'm not saying it's not an acceptable option or even a correct one. I'm just saying I think it looks bad. And that goes for the Duke's dress suit, too.

Opinions are like noses---everyone has one. lol lol lol

 

[Orgetorix]

In theory, I might agree. But the whole point of midnight blue is that it reads as black, rather than a washed out dark gray that black can sometimes read as. If it read as blue, then I would agree.

Black lapels still don't match a blue coat, no matter what they "read" as. It's obvious, every time, that they're different colors.

 

[Orgetorix]

Opinions are like noses---everyone has one. lol lol lol

True. Mine just happen to be correct.

 

[jamespowers]

True. Mine just happen to be correct.

:kick:

 

[jamespowers]

Black lapels still don't match a blue coat, no matter what they "read" as. It's obvious, every time, that they're different colors.

Not so obvious in my picture above. It depends on the light.

 

[John in Covina]

Just 'look' at 'how black' that blue looks under artificial light (I used a flash and close up to show the actual 'blueness' of the fabric). Allegedly, it was Edward VIII (8th), the infamous Duke of Windsor who abdicated for the love of an American lady, who launched the trend of the midnight blue dinner suit, as it appeared blacker under artificial light at night-time.

********
Great dinner suit Paddy, you clean up nicely, as they say!

 

[Tomasso]

Mine just happen to be correct.

Have you ever actually seen this ilk that you champion? I can't recall ever seeing such, but then at formal events I'm usually focusing on the women and their dresses. [huh]

 

[jamespowers]

...then at formal events I'm usually focusing on the women and their dresses. [huh]

You too eh? lol lol

 

[reetpleat]

grosgrain and satin will always look different from wool anyway. It is ot expected that they match perfectly tonewise. in fact, if they did, you would lose the tuxedoness of it. It would just look like a black suit.