Midnight blue

[Visconde]

I'm thinking about having a dinner jacket made.

Midnight blue
shawl lapels
single breasted
1 button

This is my first dinner jacket and I want to really stand out, I hate formal parties where everyone is wearing cheap looking suits.

I'm hoping for some tips from the more experienced black-tie wearing crowd here.

with kind regards

Visconde

 

[scotrace]

What do you need help with?

 

[Fletch]

Just off the top of my head...

The 1B shawl is a great choice because it's elegantly simple. Keep it that way with your accessories (as Daniel Craig does above) - fold-over collar shirt and a cummerbund rather than a vest. You can even leave out the cummer if your trou have the satin waistband, as many do.

Craig's satin jacket cuffs are a little showy, but on a high-end garment like this, that can work. You're not likely to find them OTR anyway.

 

[britishink]

Navy would be a nice, and somewhat conservative choice, of color.

The collar matching cuffs are a must if it's bespoke, that's going to separate you from the herd.

 

[anon`]

Navy would be a nice, and somewhat conservative choice, of color.

The collar matching cuffs are a must if it's bespoke, that's going to separate you from the herd.

Seriously? I think satin looks tacky in many circumstances, and am very biased towards grosgrain lapel facings (on the fence with respect to satin on shawl lapels), and really quite dislike the satin sleeve cuffs on the picture above. They just seem... excessive, as if screaming for attention. That it also reminds me of the '80s doesn't help, either.

 

[Lokar]

You can even leave out the cummer if your trou have the satin waistband, as many do.

My warning regarding this, is that if you don't have the build of say, Daniel Craig, a satin waistband can look much, much worse than a cummerbund. If you don't have a completely flat "washboard" stomach, I would definitely recommend a cummerbund over a satin waistband.

As for britishink: Navy? Unless by that you mean midnight blue, then .. no! Black tie should look black, not blue. Midnight blue is the exception because it's so dark that it can look blacker than black in certain lighting.


Visconde: For more information on Black Tie, go to http://www.blacktieguide.com/

 

[Visconde]

I am quite aware of the black tie guide and spend some time researching this. But it seams there aren't too many details on midnight blue dinner jackets.

I've posted this thread because there may be things I haven't thought about, little details that usually make the suit stand out in perfection.

I'm going to go for worsted wool/grosgrain combo. Am I correct that the blue should be as dark as possible? Pictures are often misleading with shades of blue.

On the Daniel Graig picture:
This is the best picture I've found online, I think this is a bespoke Tom Ford suit and I quite like it, except the cuffs.
I think I'll have: lapels, trousers stripe jacket pockets, buttons, cummerbund and bow-tie in grosgrain.

I think the shirt should be: turndown collar with pleats, covered buttons and double cuffs but I'm not too sure on the fabric.

And I think I need some white braces as well.

What kind of shoes should you wear with midnight-blue? Patent or calf skin? And what about socks?

Thanks for the responses so far.

With kind regards
Visconde

 

[Feraud]

Seriously? I think satin looks tacky in many circumstances, and am very biased towards grosgrain lapel facings (on the fence with respect to satin on shawl lapels), and really quite dislike the satin sleeve cuffs on the picture above. They just seem... excessive, as if screaming for attention. That it also reminds me of the '80s doesn't help, either.

Here are a few pre-1980s vintage satin lapels for your consideration.

I believe this is a 50s era midnight blue.

A DB model with either the '36-39 or '39-49 union label. I forget which one..

NRA tagged satin lapel.

 

[anon`]

When one speaks of "midnight blue" in reference to formalwear... it should be the kind of blue that you look at inside and think "Wait, is that blue or black?" In sunlight or against true black, it should become apparent that it is, in fact, blue. If it clearly looks blue indoors, it's too light and no good for a dinner jacket.

Shirt should be white. Pick a comfortable fabric: you won't be removing your jacket (right?) so get something lightweight. I've seen some period to-attach tunics whose bodies were made of a mesh weave.

Conventional wisdom holds that black patent is the appropriate shoe material in any circumstance. However, if you search far enough in these forums, there's someone with a pair of black suede opera pumps that Allen Edmonds produced some years ago. The flat, almost greyish appearance of these goes really well with the rest of his ensemble, which is surprising as it doesn't seem like it would, until you see a picture of it. Because of this, I think I'd be quite favourably impressed with calfskin, if you can find them. I wound up buying patent to start, mostly because I couldn't source anything else! Wear with black silk socks. Bonus points if you can find one with a nice, understated clock pattern. (And if you do, please tell me your source!)

@Feraud~ Thank you, I've seen many period dinner jackets faced in satin. I still don't care for it, but regardless I was referring to satin appearing elsewhere on the jacket: "...and really quite dislike the satin sleeve cuffs on the picture above. They just seem... excessive, as if screaming for attention. That they [satin sleeve cuffs] also [remind] me of the '80s doesn't help, either."

 

[Visconde]

Feraud: thanks for those picture, I really like the lapels on that first picture, so much better then on the picture I've posted.

anon': I am far too young to be wearing opera pumps, I think I'll just look for a nice calfskin oxford, so I can wear it with other suits as well. What do you mean with clock pattern?

about the trousers: are pleats necessary? Are there special features to wear it with a cummerbund?

What is your opinion on this:

Besom welts can be of self fabric or trimmed with the lapel’s silk facing, though classic menswear scholar Nicholas Antongiavanni suggests that for the English this latter touch “is a sure sign of hired clothes”.

With kind regards
Visconde

I really like the shade of blue in this picture.

 

[anon`]

anon': I am far too young to be wearing opera pumps, I think I'll just look for a nice calfskin oxford, so I can wear it with other suits as well. What do you mean with clock pattern?

about the trousers: are pleats necessary? Are there special features to wear it with a cummerbund?

You're never too young for pumps But I mentioned them more for the material than the cut--the picture is worth seeking out if you're not being lazy (like I am!) just to see.

"Clock" pattern socks have that stripe/pattern that runs straight up the side, sorta like this:

Sadly, nobody seems to make them in a traditional pattern (less diamonds and more straight lines with perhaps a single design set in them) any longer =/

I'm with Nick on his opinion of trim on the pockets, but we've already seen that I'm less than enthusiastic about satin in the first place Grosgrain trim on pockets would just look silly, IMNSHO.

The fabric in that photo looks awfully bright, but that might just be due to commercial flashbulbs in use. Tough to say what it would look like in natural light, though if it were that shade under normal lighting conditions, I'd consider giving it a pass unless you're trying to be "fashion forward".

 

[Tomasso]

Midnight Blue alongside Black.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

What do you need help with?

I agree sounds very very nice............

 

[jamespowers]

You're never too young for pumps But I mentioned them more for the material than the cut--the picture is worth seeking out if you're not being lazy (like I am!) just to see.

"Clock" pattern socks have that stripe/pattern that runs straight up the side, sorta like this:

Sadly, nobody seems to make them in a traditional pattern (less diamonds and more straight lines with perhaps a single design set in them) any longer =/

I'm with Nick on his opinion of trim on the pockets, but we've already seen that I'm less than enthusiastic about satin in the first place Grosgrain trim on pockets would just look silly, IMNSHO.

The fabric in that photo looks awfully bright, but that might just be due to commercial flashbulbs in use. Tough to say what it would look like in natural light, though if it were that shade under normal lighting conditions, I'd consider giving it a pass unless you're trying to be "fashion forward".

I picked up my clocks at a Nordstroms a while back. They had them in wool which is fine with me. The line was a deep red color that blended well with the rest of the black sock though if that might not be what you want. [huh]

 

[Tomasso]

"Clock" pattern socks

I know a man whose wife's a fox
Who has rows and rows of socks with clocks
He owns a store and it's all he stocks
Yes, he has flocks of socks with clocks.

Many of his socks with clocks
He keeps inside a wooden box
for it's how they come in from the docks
these millions of socks with clocks

You'll know him the first time he talks
All he'll discuss are socks with clocks
While eating bagels smeared with lox
On the house of argyle he's declared a pox

When you see them, I'll admit, it shocks
To see so many socks with clocks
Other stockings he mocks and mocks
Unless they're worn by burly jocks

When he goes to see the Atlanta Hawks
He's sure to wear some socks with clocks
He wears them with loafers, but never Crocs
He hasn't worn those since he played with blocks

To go and see these socks with clocks
A man could take a horse or go by ox
I'll draw him a map with colored chalks
And on his door, he finally knocks
and sees the man and his socks with clocks

 

[Orgetorix]

My only reservation with midnight blue evening wear is that many tailors seem to have trouble finding midnight blue satin or grosgrain with which to trim it. Consequently, you end up with blue cloth and black trimmings, which IMO looks awful.

Visconde, if you're going with midnight blue, I'd advise making sure your tailor knows where to get matching grosgrain.

 

[Visconde]

I didn't know the two were possible, it's so hard to see in pictures.

Anyway, the duke of windsor had his with black lapels, so I think I'll have it that way.

with kind regards
Visconde

EDIT: blacktieguide.com

According to preeminent English couturier Sir Hardy Amies, whether they are grosgrain or satin, the facings on a midnight blue dinner suit should be black because it is almost impossible to get dark blue satin to match the wool.

 

[anon`]

My only reservation with midnight blue evening wear is that many tailors seem to have trouble finding midnight blue satin or grosgrain with which to trim it. Consequently, you end up with blue cloth and black trimmings, which IMO looks awful.

Visconde, if you're going with midnight blue, I'd advise making sure your tailor knows where to get matching grosgrain.

It's always been my understanding that, even on blue fabric, the facings should be black, no?

@jamespowers~ Thanks for the tip... I'll try to swing by Nordy's later this week to see if that might work for me!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

It's always been my understanding that, even on [midnight] blue fabric, the facings should be black, no?

Nope.

.

 

[scotrace]

I have a midnight blue dinner suit with a faint herringbone weave (you have to look closely to see it) and matching midnight blue grosgrain lapels and trouser trimming.
Tomasso's photo points up the appeal of a midnight blue suit: in artificial light (indoors), it looks truly black, while a black suit tends to look washed out or even dark gray.

Also be sure to see the extensive and excellent formal wear primer thread within our hallowed walls.