May Day Boycott

[EL COLORADO]

Actually, the US government and media have ignored the immigration problem until A) the Anglo anti-illegal immigration protestors started to patrol the border

Yeah,..what a "problem" this immigration stuff is. (sigh)
If its such a problem,...why has the government underfunded and cut back the border patrols for the past 5 years,...which "created" the prompting for the Minute Men nonsense in the first place???

B) the Atzlan / Reconquista crowd started to organize mass protests.
http://www.aztlan.net/newaztlan.gif

And you fall for it....
Most of those Reconquista types are such obvious and blatant cointelpro type, community organization infiltrating provacatuers,.. that you can spot 'em a mile away.
With their over the top posturing.
Designed to compliment and create the illusion and an artifical validation of the "immigrant problem" propaganda.

Classic psy-ops technique, daddy-o.
Look it up in the library of any intelligence/military training manuals.

Although truth be told,...from a NATIVE INDIGENOUS AMERICAN point of view,...which almost all Mexicans nationals are,...this is entire hemisphere,...from Argentina to ALsaka... is THEIR homeland.
But alot a folks have no desire to address the deeply human and REAL component of that side of it.

Either you haven't been paying attention, or you're a 'fellow traveler'.
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Misinformed reactionism to merely the surface of an issue aint what i call paying attention.

Heh, heh.





EC

 

[scotrace]

El Colorado, I have read and re-read your posts. I can gather that you feel this whole business is a non-issue, but I can't devine why this is your contention, or what your position is - only what it ain't.

Do you feel that the U.S. Government is propagandizing and inflating this issue for some other, background purpose? If so, what is that purpose? Is it to eliminate (or "keep down") remaining Native American populations? Or is your point that the land that makes up the United States today is in part not really rightfully U.S. land and should be returned to the Native Americans (who happen to be most vocally from Mexico)? If you feel that many US Citizens are buying into propaganda from the allied U.S. Government/Media, why are they making such a large effort to buffalo (no pun intended) a quarter billion people? What do we need to know?

 

[Story]

Yeah,..what a "problem" this immigration stuff is. (sigh)
And you fall for it....
Most of those Reconquista types are such obvious and blatant cointelpro type, community organization infiltrating provacatuers,.. that you can spot 'em a mile away.
With their over the top posturing.
Designed to compliment and create the illusion and an artifical validation of the "immigrant problem" propaganda.

Classic psy-ops technique, daddy-o.
Look it up in the library of any intelligence/military training manuals.

What would you know about M.I. techniques?

It was two Spanish guys on the grassy knoll, Senor Ricardo Belzer.

 

[Katt in Hat]

Why?...

Because it is yet another "wedge issue" to divert the public's mind from those issues which should be of major concern. Similar to the God, Guns and Gays happy dust. Just another attempt to keep people from pursuing changes which would be of true benefit to them and in their real interest.

 

[Bebop]

I sure would love it if we all protested how much of our paycheck goes towards taxes. Now THERE is something to get hot about!:rage:

 

[Tudor]

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."


Theodore Roosevelt 1907

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Fair enough, but becoming an American is dependent on TWO things: the willingness and ability of a person to assimilate, and the willingness and ability of AMERICA to assimilate that person. As I implied earlier, both the person and the country must link hands. However, since illegal aliens are here illegally, they are not allowed to do certain things that would help them to assimilate and become assimilated. In any case, why would you expect them to assimilate when you don't want them here in the first place?

Most importantly, what do you mean by "assimilate"? Define the term and the expectations as precisely as you can. Only then can we really talk about it.



.

 

[Tudor]

"Also, what do you mean by "assimilate"? ", Marc Chevalier

Alas, Teddy has long since passed on. I will give you my thoughts and I make no assumption that these ideas could stand the test of time as Teddy’s have. I believe that people in this country assimilate by bringing their ideas and culture and adding it to our diversity mix or melting pot as they used to say. These people do not give up what make them unique but they readily embrace things that make us American, i.e., our language, flag and the love of these United States.

People here as aliens have a legal process they can follow to change their status should they choose. People here illegally do not have these options. They are after all here illegally and the USA has no obligation to accommodate them or provide a process to allow them rights in our country.


Dennis

 

[EL COLORADO]

El Colorado, I have read and re-read your posts. I can gather that you feel this whole business is a non-issue, but I can't devine why this is your contention, or what your position is - only what it ain't.

Do you feel that the U.S. Government is propagandizing and inflating this issue for some other, background purpose??

Yup. But that aint nothin new,...happens all the time.

If so, what is that purpose? Is it to eliminate (or "keep down") remaining Native American populations??

Well,..it conceivably could serve that purpose.
But,...I cant tell you what the"exact" purpose is.
Let me put it this way.
Close your eyes,...now imagine hearing a shutting thud sound,..then the sound of ignition,...then hearing the motor running and the wheels rub against the pavement as the sound lingers away.
You know how to recognize the signs...you dont have to open your eyes to identify that its obviously a CAR,...but that dont mean you know where its going.
Dig it?


One must keep in mind that in the American Hemisphere,....the majority of the poulation are in fact,... Indians.
Guatemala, Ecuador, El Salvador, Peru, Mexico, etc.
And it has ALWAYS,...since the founding of this country, ...been in the intrests of National security,...that Native poulations not threaten the status quo of power in this region,...or the rest of the Americas.
From a national secutity point of view.......thats just old plain common sense.

Or is your point that the land that makes up the United States today is in part not really rightfully U.S. land and should be returned to the Native Americans (who happen to be most vocally from Mexico)?

Well yes and no.
Yes,that it is ....Indian land.
Just as the Europen Continent is European land.
Like China is Chinese land.
Like Africa continent is African land.
The problem is that the Indigenous American populations have NO say or TRUE autonomy WHATSOEVER,.... in their OWN indigenous hemisphere they were sprung from.

And NO that it should be returned,...because thats impossible.
Its a ludicrous idea.
Our destiny as human beings should be to come together with all our combined cultures and gifts. With true love and respect for each other,..all of us brothers and sisters.
But as i said previously,..its dog eat dog,....survival of the fittest...and law of the jungle out there. Consolidate and expand power. The basest elemnts of human nature are in full effect.

If you feel that many US Citizens are buying into propaganda from the allied U.S. Government/Media, why are they making such a large effort to buffalo (no pun intended) a quarter billion people? What do we need to know?

Katt in da' Hatt,.. knows where its at!



EC

 

[Andykev]

I came into this late!

I have slowly read all the posts above. There are no easy answers. The human thing to do is to eliminate all borders around the world, and live in peace as one people. Borders were made by man.

That is Utopian thinking. A perfecct world, it is not attainable, at least today or in the long distant future.

Ship them back? I have heard racist talk before where there was another group that some wanted to "ship back to ******". We've all heard that ugly statement.

The fact is, welcome good people from Mexico willing to work, but control the border. They are no more our enemy than the Canadians to the north. But the fact that ANYONE can come across without being checked means that terrorists and criminals escaping from other countries, or entering this conutry with nefarious designs..just watch out!

So, I say, stop the "illegal flow", and then work to "legalize" the good people here who do work very hard. They want the same thing you do, and that is a better life. You cannot ignore the problem or issue...the "illegal" immigrants live right next door to your home, work, school, church.

What is the alternative? Have Congress make Mexico our 51'st state? A province or territory like Puerto Rico? Build a wall? OK, hire the illegals to build it then send them home? How about dig a moat? No, you see how silly that is.

edit

ps WHY IS THIS SUDDENLY AN ISSUE TODAY? Nobody was talking about this,what, two years ago? Some politician wants to take the heat off of one news item by inventing another? Maybe some conflict far away? Some budget issue? Hummmm I wonder.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

People here illegally ... are, after all, here illegally, and the USA has no obligation to accommodate them or provide a process to allow them rights in our country.

Okay. And if the USA does not "accomodate them or provide a process to allow them rights in our country" ... then by the same token, the USA cannot expect them to be able to assimilate, even if they want to. You can't have your cake and eat it too; you can't expect illegal aliens to assimilate if they are barred access to the means to do so.

Sometimes I feel that beneath all this talk of "illegals", there is a subtext that says "poor, indigenous or mixed race Latin Americans, especially those from Mexico and Central America". The feeling seems to be that we should not give visas or green cards to practically any applicants south of the border who fit that description, let alone allow "those people" to enter and stay illegally. In other words, keep nearly all of them out of the U.S., period. Nothing new there: we did this with the Chinese and Japanese.


.

 

[Tudor]

You are both right... not an easy thing to deal with. There are no right answers.

 

[EL COLORADO]

ps WHY IS THIS SUDDENLY AN ISSUE TODAY? Nobody was talking about this,what, two years ago? Some politician wants to take the heat off of one news item by inventing another? Maybe some conflict far away? Some budget issue? Hummmm I wonder.

Gee.....ya think? :whistling





EC

 

[EL COLORADO]

What would you know about M.I. techniques?

It was two Spanish guys on the grassy knoll, Senor Ricardo Belzer.

I guess i shouldnt also bring up to you that the earth is round either, eh?

pull up a chair...
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/cointelpro.html

 

[jp*81]

It could be propaganda, because I sure don't understand why a bunch of illegal immigrants would want to gather in one place and draw attention. I know that sounds sarcastic, but I am serious. I know their reason behind it, but where is their logic in that behavior? You would have to be pretty stupid to do that. Aren't they worried about La Migra? They are any other time.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Aren't they worried about La Migra? They are any other time.

A loaded question, even if you didn't intend it to be. It seems to imply that the marchers aren't worried about La Migra -- and that they aren't worried because La Migra is not very effective.

I doubt that they're not afraid of La Migra. I think they've assembled in spite of the risk. After all, there's psychological strength in numbers. And remember the civil rights marches of the '50s and '60s. Were African-American marchers in the South afraid of the KKK, the local police, and the state troopers? You bet they were. Yet march they did.

 

[jp*81]

Marc Chevalier

You mentioned numbers....I didn't think of like that. I guess it might turn into a hellacious riot if the police tried anything. Maybe they are only scared when they are alone. Makes sense.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

So far, it's been peaceful. I imagine it will remain so. If you're an illegal alien and you're marching with tens or hundreds of thousands, you're pretty anonymous unless you get involved in a fight.

 

[scotrace]

So how did it go?

Was there an impact today? I know there were at least some gatherings of size. (I tend to distrust media descriptions of such events as they tend to be inflated).
So what happened today? And did it mean anything or accomplish anything?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Here in L.A., it's still going.