May Day Boycott

[indyjim]

Hemmingway, I agree with you 110%. Illegal is illegal. No other country in the world would allow this. And Captain, I have family in Phoenix. They've told me
what it's like. Don't get sick or hurt because you can't get to an emergency room. The drain on all government services is absolutely staggering. Boycott
your job on Monday??? Maybe no job will be there on Tuesday.

 

[jp*81]

Thanks for your opinions.

I lived in Riverside, CA for most of my life, then moved San Diego, CA for 3 years before I moved to Florida, which is where I live now.

I have to agree with The Captain:

Long gone are the days of the bracero and the knock on your door by a man with a hoe over his shoulder, asking if there was any trabajo to be had. Those were basically, honest, hard-working men. Fast-forward to me having to accompany my wife to the store, because she was a little nervous to find several men standing around her car - sitting on the hood! - and uttering something in Spanish while they leered at her.

I was in the Marine Corps and you are only supposed to speak English at work, but when I was in San Diego they all spoke Spanish at work. It didn't really bother me, besides the fact that it sounds annoying. Anyways....When you get down near Tijuana, The Captain has painted an accurate picture of what you will see.

I am not against immigration, but illegal immigrants do upset me. And draining government services has a whole new meaning in Florida. I had to take my daughter there to get her shots when I first moved here. I didn't think it could be worse than CA but it was.

The email I received will not effect me shopping on May 1st. I don't get into things like that. I just thought it was an interesting topic.

 

[scotrace]

Are these Groups a matched Pair?

A. Black American Citizens who have been denied their rights as citizens and use the tactics of Civil Disobediance to rightfully secure what is by civil law and (in Jeffersonian doctrine as applied to caucasians) by devine will already theirs.

B. Persons who have enetered the United States in violation of the civil code and hidden their actions while here.


Can these be reasonably compared?

 

[Bebop]

There is a big, fat, wide line between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. Being a legal immigrant that was raised in the U.S. and served in the U.S. military, I find the fact that few news articles seperate illegal immigrants from legal immigrants insulting.:rage: Why would I as a legal immigrant from So. America want to boycott anything and show support for anyone coming into this country illegally just because I am an immigrant? I think getting into this country should be much more difficult even if you do it legally! After listening to some interviews of protesters here in San Francisco, it seems to me that most of these boycotting fools are not quite sure what it is they are protesting. There were quite a few people claiming they were protesting because "The government wants all the aliens to get out". The spanish T.V. stations interview ONLY people that have that thought process going on. It's almost like a sketch from Saturday Night Live. You can't believe that it is "The News" that is being slanted so much. Now they want to sing the American National Anthem in spanish. I just don't get it.[huh]

 

[Feraud]

I am more disgusted at the Americans who hire the illegal immigrants then those sneaking in for work. Where are those Americans now that their workers are coming under fire? Hiding like the cowards they are.
In New York, illegals are hired as busboys, babysitters, cleaning people, delivery work, contracting, etc. I know of one local supermarket that actually locked the overnight staff(illegal workers) in the establishment! How the place is still open is beyond me.

While I have no love of people who are illegally entering the country, I have more hated towards these Americans who cowardly sit by as their workers are harassed and have to fight their battles alone. In the recent New York demonstations I expected to see every New York City restaurant owner who uses illegal workers to be demonstrating right next to their illegal employees. But no, these cowards are sitting back and counting their money. Shame on us hypocritical Americans. We will never solve a problem we cannot admit we have.

 

[jp*81]

Here is a news link with better info.

CNN

In Mexico, 'nothing gringo on May 1'

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/04/14/mexico.boycott.ap/index.html

 

[indyjim]

With regards to the article in the link posted above; Fine, don't shop at Wal-Mart on Monday. You'll simply buy what you need on Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm sure Wal Mart can wait a day or two. And if there is so much anti-U.S. sentiment, why do you want to come here in the first place? And lastly, if you have so much power as Mexicans, why do you not use it to change conditions in your own country, so you don't have to leave it and come to my country and try to change IT?!
I've got an idea. Why don't we get 10,000,000 American citizens to go to Mexico and demand free health care and free education for our children. But they have to speak English, so our children will understand. And all of the signs and paperwork and government forms, textbooks, etc. will all have to be written in English as well as Spanish. And lets not forget to demand that the government of Mexico recognize the 4th of July, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, etc. for us. And of course, we'll want to be able to fly our American flag over the Mexican flag. That will be ok, right. And, if any of our pregnant women have their baby on Mexican soil, they'll automatically become a Mexican citizen and then you have to grant us full citizenship and rights (whatever those might be) And of course, we won't pay any taxes, because, oficially, we're not there. Would Mexico (or
any country stand for that?) They'd call it an invasion!

 

[jp*81]

I Agree.

indyjim

if you have so much power as Mexicans, why do you not use it to change conditions in your own country, so you don't have to leave it and come to my country and try to change IT?!

 

[Katt in Hat]

One or both of us has acted in true Gentlemanly fashion.

I know that Hemingway Jones has so done. :arated:

OK. You've convinced me of that and gave me a good laugh. lol

Let's just leave it at that and agree to disagree. That way, when I run into you at some event, I can buy you a drink without feeling guilty about it.

 

[Pilgrim]

I think Hemingway Jones was right on target when he noted that we sometimes have to agree to disagree.

Myself, I'd rather search for solutions than take positions that are unrealistic and hold that posture despite good arguments to modify it.

I honestly don't believe there's an all-or-nothing answer in this case. And I am interested in seeing what the effect of Monday's event is.

In the meantime, I will remind my daughters that learning Spanish is a great way to increase their employability. While I do believe that the US is and will remain an English-speaking country, there is no escaping the fact that Spanish is fast becoming a functional second language in many parts of the US.

 

[shamus]

A. Black American Citizens who have been denied their rights as citizens and use the tactics of Civil Disobediance to rightfully secure what is by civil law and (in Jeffersonian doctrine as applied to caucasians) by devine will already theirs.

B. Persons who have enetered the United States in violation of the civil code and hidden their actions while here.


Can these be reasonably compared?

Well, I think they can.

One is a group of people who were brought here to do work that no American wanted to do, the other is group of people who came here to do work that no American wants to do.

Both were/are considered not worthy of being a citizen of the US.

Yet pretty much all of those who dislike both groups from both time periods are just a generation or two away from being immigrants themselves.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I've got an idea. Why don't we get 10,000,000 American citizens to go to Mexico and demand free health care and free education for our children.

Wouldn't work. From what I've heard, according to the Mexican constitution, it's a felony to be an illegal immigrant in Mexico. We'd all be arrested.

Brad

 

[TommySalieri]

As an American citizen of Latino descent, my feelings toward the boycott are mixed. Living in the south bay of San Diego, not a day goes by where I don't see a car with Mexican license plates. There are parts of the city of Chula Vista where Mexicans congregate; such as shopping centers and city parks. Oddly enough, these places are void of White individuals. Clearly, the sudden influx of Mexicans from across the border has incited a "semi-white flight", where Americans have abandoned the very places that belong to them. Why is this the case?

Mexican citizens and illegals tend to be rather obnoxious. We must understand that Mexico is a completely different society from us. In a land where "machismo" (Male dominance and superiority over that of the woman) runs rampant and corruption is widespread, the populace tends to mirror these cultural traits when they enter our land. Manners and courtesy are virtually non-existent in Mexico. I have seen how they come to our stores and demand that the workers speak Spanish. Of course, the corporate executives of X corporation are more than happy to oblige. This is clearly evident at local Wal-mart stores where none of the workers speak fluent English.

The fact that they are trying to use their heritage as means of making a point shouldn't be an issue that warrants concern. Speaking from first hand experience, Mexicans (including the illegals), are very proud of their nationality. This national pride, while misguided, is what prompts them to reject American culture. Instead, they attempt to introduce their culture into our culture. Although on a much smaller scale, this sort of thing has been done before by European and Asian immigrants during the 19th and early-20th century. History proves that, in time, the cultural ways of the people in question are assimilated into our culture, thus contributing to American culture. To put this into context, imagine, if you will, the proverbial patchwork quilt.

Now, before I'm lynched by the mob here, let me make it clear that I am not advocating this behavior. I am an American. As far as I'm concerned, Mexico is simply another corrupt, third-world country. But what truly worries me is the drug cartels across the border. If you live in a border town, you are probably aware of the frequent cases of kidnapping of American citizens by Mexican drug lords within our territory. The Mexican army has even flexed it's military muscle within our side of the border. Dale Stockton of Law Officer Magazine has further elaborated on these cases here.http://www.lawofficermagazine.com/images/editorsnote.pdf

It is true that illegals are, at this time, a necessary evil for our society. Yes. Illegals are a big part of the workforce. But who is there to blame for this? We should begin to point the finger at ourselves. The sooner we do, the quicker we'll find a solution to the problem. Until then, let's focus on the main issue at hand: Mexican corruption and organized crime encroaching on our way of life and our children.

Personally, I will be attending the local protests. I will not be participating, however. I simply want to see history in the making.

 

[Katt in Hat]

Partial Quote from just ^ above ^ by Tommy Salieri

________________________________________________
"Mexican citizens and illegals tend to be rather obnoxious."

We must understand that Mexico is a completely different society from us. In a land where "machismo" (Male dominance and superiority over that of the woman) runs rampant and corruption is widespread, the populace tends to mirror these cultural traits when they enter our land.

"Manners and courtesy are virtually non-existent in Mexico."

I have seen how they come to our stores and demand that the workers speak Spanish. Of course, the corporate executives of X corporation are more than happy to oblige. This is clearly evident at local Wal-mart stores where none of the workers speak fluent English.

Res Ipsa Loquitur
"The Thing Speaks For Itself"

 

[Nathan Flowers]

What are you attempting to say, Katt? I see the thumbs down, so I'm guessing you're disagreeing with what Mr. Salieri is saying, but you don't specifically attack his argument. Are you attacking him, or what he's said?

Most of your political posts appear to be in the form of Argument ad hominem, which is one of the logical fallacies.

When you accost Mr. Hemingway Jones because he doesn't mention the name of Operation Wetback, rather than attacking his argument, you are engaging in a logical fallacy that causes many folks here to not really pay attention to anything else you post. I recommend that you (and all of us, really) take time to question the content of another person's posts, rather than attacking the person.

Definition of Argument ad Hominem
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting).

Cheers,
Z

 

[Katt in Hat]

Zohar please concentrate on words in boldface type.

"Mexican citizens and illegals tend to be rather obnoxious."
"Manners and courtesy are virtually non-existent in Mexico."
--------------------------------------------------
I believe that they are more than hurtful speech. They are sweeping generalizations about an entire people. See how it reads if other nationalities are substituted for Mexican. Then try a few different religions and see how that looks.

Res Ipsa Loquitur
"The Thing Speaks For Itself"

Had you PMed me , this would have been sent to you via PM. Since you question me publicly, I return the favor.

 

[TommySalieri]

They're far from being simple "generalizations". Perhaps I should have been more specific. The MAJORITY of the Mexican people are that way. I deal with them on a day to day basis. I cross the border to the other side and WITNESS this behavior first hand. I have family in Mexico. My mother, who has lived in Mexico most of her life, supports this argument. Of course, there is always the exception to the rule. Not all Mexicans are drug-trafficking criminals.

It's awful when you see a drug runner driving down a street in your city in his brand-new Audi TT, wearing his wireless bluetooth headset when your family in Mexico is struggling to make ends meet. Point being, that society is corrupt and immoral to no end. Until you experience this first hand, Katt, I suggest you keep your accusations to yourself.

I should mention that you can apply the same to societies of other nations. That is true. But, since this topic is on Mexico and since they are our "good neighbors", and since I have the experience to make such a statement, I have chosen to focus on Mexico exclusively.

 

[Katt in Hat]

I made no accusations.

You stand or fall on your own words.

 

[TommySalieri]

And clearly, I'm still standing until you're able to prove me wrong.


Nevertheless, I respect you and your opinions. Agree to disagree, right?

 

[Katt in Hat]

I absolutly agree.

Too much fun on the Lounge to fight with each other. When I see you, whether I'm off the wagon or on, I'll buy ya a couple. :cheers1: :arated: :cheers1: