Magnoli's suits.

[Daniel Riser]

Magnoli is Indy Magnoli from COW. He has posted on this board before. He's a great guy with quite a legacy in the Indiana Jones prop collecting world.

I think the problem with these suits aren't just the "thirties details" but the actual construction. There is a tailoring issue, the fabric has a lot to do with the drape but so does the cut.

And regarding the "Chinatown" reference I think I can take the liberty to say that Magnoli wasn't determined to make a 100% accurate replica of the Chinatown suit, it was simply an "inspired by" piece just like the "washington" double breasted is inspired by the Raiders of the Lost Ark suit in the end of the film.

Marc makes an interesting point about Hollywood costuming. Some filmmakers were determined to illustrate the period precisely as it was, and others allow the details to fall by the wayside in the name of modern interpretation, the filmmaker in me would love to make a film incorporating 100% vintage, but the historian in me would say let Armani give his take on the thirties and preserve the vintage stuff... which is a symbol of our history.

When I see a double breasted suit I think of the President that led this country out of the great depression. When I see a shiny top hat I think of Fred Astaire and the symbol of culture that was present in entertainment... back when it was cool to tap dance and you had to be a one man talent show to get into the business. Somehow blonde hair and lack of inhibitions are counted as "talent" today.

Our history in connected to iconoclasm. The Panama Canal, the Ford model T and... vintage clothing. So go ahead and throw buckets of fake blood on history, put bullet holes in history, slam history against brick walls twenty takes per shot and another thing... "ahh forget it (guys) it's Chinatown."

 

[Matt Deckard]

I think we should hold off a bit on the criticizing until someone here sees one one of these suits in person.

He is after all trying to make a vintage inspired suit, and that alone is a good reason to show him some honors.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I think we should hold off a bit on the criticizing until someone here sees one one of these suits in person.

He is after all trying to make a vintage inspired suit, and that alone is a good reason to show him some honors.

And I applaud him for it. I'd like to hear a reports about the suits, and from Indy Magnoli himself.

Brad

 

[Daniel Riser]

Absolutely Matt. Magnoli has answered a request by so many, especially this group. How many times have we read in these posts a desire to find vintage suits in sizes larger than 40 reg?

Magnoli is a pioneer and I hope he gleans from the knowledge of our esteemed members here. We are a community and I see this opportunity as something that can be perfected to the point that we won't have to look for private tailors in obscure cities but will actually have a faithful venue for authentic reproductions.

It may be my only chance to ever have a single breasted peaked lapel suit with belt back.

 

[Flitcraft]

"Chinatown" suit doesn't have peaked lapels- but I wish it did.
I'd love to get one in a light weight material- maybe even linen.
Maybe with enough encouragement- and positive criticsm- Magnoli could be induced to produce a model like that.
His prices are certainly reasonable.

 

[Daniel Riser]

I would imagine that if you request peaked lapels with detailed photos that Magnoli will deliver.

 

[Senator Jack]

Why did you post this link? Now I'm interested in the Washington. Has anyone bought the cashmere blend suit? Wondering what the quality is. Site leaves a few things to be desired. Needs close-ups and it doesn't say how to order by size.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Brad Bowers]

I found a thread on COW from Indy Magnoli: http://www.indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?t=14528

He has other suits and dinner jackets in the works, including a tweed 3-piece suit. Everything is tailored to measure, and there are always options available.

This looks to be another good business for our members to support. Waiting to find out more...

Brad

 

[Daniel Riser]

I posted the link with hopes that people would get involved and perfect it. :cheers1:

 

[Lauren]

On his site it says "vintage-style" suits. Considering there are few people out there who are well versed in period menswear, I would say he did a good job for the "look". The average male customer is a) not versed in authetic menswear b) doesn't know fabric weights and qualities c) wants the comfort of the feel of a suit they are accustomed to wearing (though I think we all know that once you have vintage fit, there's no turning back!). A lot of time you learn by trial and error, and there is a large difference between going for authentic vintage and vintage look. In fact, I do not know offhand of one company who does authentic women's clothing, let alone men's!

Good points brought up on all sides. Now let's unite and cheer him for the efforts.

 

[Indy Magnoli]

I was wondering how long before the COW/FL crossover posters brought this over here...

I was hoping to iron out a lot of details, produce a few different styles and get some direct customer feedback before bringing my new endeavour here. Basically, I'll try to do anything you ask. It may be difficult, but we'll get there in the end.

At the moment, I'm offering 10% off for anyone who orders a unique design that I would like to add to my site. How this works is: you e-mail me a design/photo/ad/details/etc; I give you my estimated price plus 10% discount; we make the suit, photograph it for the site, and send it to you. Hopefully everyone is happy! At the moment, I'm looking for some guinea pigs for a Temple of Doom Dinner Jacket and a Casablanca Dinner Jacket. (I've already worked these out at costing $330, so I'll do the first one for only $295, shipping included).

Regarding the cut/shape/look of the photos on my site. I think a lot of what you're seeing may be in the photos. The do look a bit bulged on top. I'll try to take a photo of me wearing the "Chinatown" so you can compare it with the mannequin version.

Thanks for the words of encouragement... I'll keep forging ahead!

Kind regards,
Indy

 

[Sin Khan]

Well thanks Indy Magnoli. I may even end up get one of those suits. So far, it seems to me that when you get it right, it may be the best new thing out there for the money hands down. Games over folks! There?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s nothing to see here! You should all go home now. I mean, so far, I have not found anything new that is even close to what the best of yesteryear was, especially for a reasonable price.

Now I know that I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m new here, so I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll expect a little whipping from you more knowledgeable folks, but hey friend, if you know of anywhere that I can get a period suit in a decent fabric, from a person who is even attempting to get it right, for a reasonable price, then you let me know. So far, most of the posts I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve seen here are about vintage, hand me downs that don't fit right ,and the high priced tailor made jobs that cost thousands.

(Grabs shield and dons helmet while awaiting the inevitable tossing of the tomatoes)

 

[Veronica Parra]

I mean, so far, I have not found anything new that is even close to what the best of yesteryear was, especially for a reasonable price.

Relax. No one's going to throw tomatoes at you. A Packard engine block, maybe. But no tomatoes.

A question for you : what is a "reasonable" price?

 

[Sin Khan]

Well considering it is the heavier material, and made to your measurements, I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t think one should have to pay more than 400 dollars for a suit. In the book, The Millionaire Next Door, they say that most millionaires have never bought a suit over 500 dollars. Now given that the book was written over ten years ago, and the data used was even older than that, I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d say the figure could now be adjusted to 600 dollars or maybe even 700 dollars. But that was the ?¢‚Ǩ?ìMost?¢‚Ǩ? they ever paid for a suit. The point of telling people what millionaires spend was to get the message across that looking ?¢‚Ǩ?ìlike a million bucks?¢‚Ǩ? does not, and should not, have to cost a million bucks. Just ask any self made millionaire (as the authors did) and they will tell you that.

A suit is an article of clothing. I give it 200 dollars for materials, and 300 dollars for labor and that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s it. Why should a good suit cost more than that? I do not know of any regular suit that cost more than 500 dollars to make. Now I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m no expert, but I will take the authors words for it that there is no reason to pay more than 500 dollars for a suit (adjusted by me, 600 in today?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s dollars). The opinions of millionaires, who have wore many suits, is not to be disregarded either. What does labor cost these days? Does labor cost 50 dollars an hr?

I have known people who make clothing for consignment shops and never has their clothing cost more than 500 dollars. In fact, I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m going to stop by the consignment shop here in panama city and see what a new suit would cost me to my specs, I bet it would not cost me more than 500 dollars and would be one of the best suits I could have made. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll post the results of what I find out soon.

Thanks

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Well considering it is the heavier material, and made to your measurements, I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t think one should have to pay more than 400 dollars for a suit.

$400 is a standard price for an off-the-rack, fused suit made of average materials. Labor is the thing that really adds the cost to a suit. Cheap suits are made using methods which utilize as little hand-work as possible and the lowest skilled worker possible. The difference between a $400 suit and a $1400 suit made of the same cloth is going to be the cost of all the handwork put into it.

The Millionaire Next Door issue is largely the result of the fact that most millionaires are in jobs that don't even require them to wear a suit to work, much less wear a good suit.

 

[jamespowers]

I can say that I would pay more than $600 for a suit just like the one worn by Alec Baldwin in The Shadow. The action back gray suit that he wore int he scene where he meets Khan for the first time was quite a beauty. I wonder if that was a vintage suit or a recreation. Only The Shadow knows. Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahahhaah.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Lauren]

FYI- Wool by the yard from the low quality to the ok/good stuff can be from $10-$50 a yard- and that's usually wholesale cost.

 

[Sin Khan]

I have recently looked at the cost of wool by the yard suitable for making suits. I have also looked at patterns for making suits. Here are some of the web sites that I looked at.

http://www.smartcart.com/1sew/cgi/searchindex.cgi
http://www.smartcart.com/1sew/cgi/searchindex.cgi

Add up how much fabric that it takes to create a sport coat and pants from these sites; it is about 6 yards of fabric at 60 inches in length. Here is a site that sells wool for making suits.

http://www.denverfabrics.com/Mercha...2270&Category_Code=WO-prints&Product_Count=48

The measurements for the first web site for making a suit from 60 inch material for a suit and trousers are 6-8 yards. The second site sells medium weight wool for suits at about 15 dollars a yard. That means the materials for making a suit, according to the patterns show here, cost less than a hundred dollars. So my earlier estimate was actually over cost. Now, add in the buttons, the liner, and any extra pockets and the materials are still under $200, just like I figured. Even if you want some of the pricier wools regularly available then your suit materials might cost $350. Don't forget! These prices are what you or I would pay, not what a company that gets wholesale or bulk prices would pay.

So, I was about right on the money for what the materials would cost to make a normal suit by yourself or under consignment. The real question is, "What does labor cost?" I budgeted another 300 dollars for labor. That?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a lot of labor, and that puts the total figure right about at the 500-600 dollar mark that I stated in a previous reply. So, if your going to tell me that it cost more than that to make a suit, please show it too me because so far, I have only found evidence that it does not cost, or should not, cost more than this to make a suit.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Suit material at $15 per yard is very cheap. Most suiting material is not that cheap, especially that used on more high-end suits. For example here is a material which costs over $600 per yard.

http://www.hst.com.sg/acatalog/180_014.html

Looking through that particular site I found several wool flannels that look interesting to me that cost $57 per yard which is pretty cheap in my opinion and still a lot more than $15.

As for labor, tailoring is very labor intensive and the cost of labor varies with the skill, prestige and location. Labor in Vietnam, Hong Kong or other such places is going to be much cheaper than labor in London or New York. When you walk in to a Saville Row establishment you are not only paying for good materials but also for London prices for rent, utilities, and labor. And since tailoring is a skill if you want the most skilled tailor you are going to pay for it just as you are going to pay more for the best lawyer or the best doctor or the best architect.

 

[Sin Khan]

Holly Crow! I had no idea cloth could cost so much. I can't believe I can get worsted wool that weights 7 ounces a yard for 15 bucks, or spend over 500 for something that weights only perhaps one ounce more in weight. I have spent the last few hrs searching for tailoring books and pattern books for suits. There isn't that much out there that I can find, but here is what may be the best book so far about making a suit.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=/ref=cm_lm_asin/103-8175354-9802227?v=glance

but i had no idea how much was involved in just making the pattern for a suit, man, look at all these measurements.

http://www.theexecutivescloset.com/measurement/menssuitmeasurements.htm

At 500 bucks a yard for materials and many hrs of manual labor, I can see why some suits cost so much. But you know what, it still seems over priced to me. I have not yet contacted a manufacturer of wool cloth yet, but I will because I am just damn curious about it all. One of the reviews for the tailoring suits book stated that they spent over 100 hrs on the jacket alone. Well, I know what a professional sewing machine can do, I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve seen it in action. I think she wasted a lot of her time, but I haven?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t yet got the book so I don't know. I will order the book though simply because I want to know what all is involved with making a correctly measured hand made suit.

Thanks Vladamir, for the link, I can't believe people pay that much for fabric alone. 500 dollars a yard for sheep hair? What do they feed those sheep, steak and caviar? Something?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s not right.