Made in China - Monarch A-2 repros

[aming06]

One of my friend bought such one, the China made jacket. Well...I can say, if you don't care about the accuracy of reproduction, it's a good regular jacket. The leather is not bad, but it's not reproduced accurately like ELC or Buzz. Well...just for reference.

 

[Fifty150]

But very expensive for "Made In China".

 

[CodeRed]

I will never buy anything again made in china period I dont care how cheap/good it is...purchased a few things in the last year or two just for backpacking, because they cornered the market and I really regret it. Buy USA or at least allies of the USA. We need the jobs. Enjoy.

 

[Fifty150]

Politics aside, you get what you pay for. You can get good quality from China, or any other country. Just don't expect that quality when you're paying next to nothing.

 

[Worf]

Being old enough to remember when people railed agains "cheap Japanese crap", I try to put it in perspective. Unlike in the 50's and 60's the ability of manufacturing to shift in a moments notice to the land with the cheapest labor grows faster by the minute. I'm no jingoistic patriot but if I can buy American, I do if not American made, at least American assembled. I've no xenophobic problem with Chinese made goods, I'm just trying to keep some of my neighbors and countrymen employed. I've nothing against the Chinese, they're just trying to get where the we and the Japanese have already been.

Worf

 

[Edward]

Politics aside, you get what you pay for. You can get good quality from China, or any other country. Just don't expect that quality when you're paying next to nothing.

I've spent quite a bit of time in China over the past few years with work ,and for holidays - wonderful country, lovely people. As with anywhere else, they have their problems, but actually being there and experiencing the place certainly opened my eyes in many respects. The level of craftwork I've seen (and on occasions purchased) out there is stunning.

Being old enough to remember when people railed agains "cheap Japanese crap", I try to put it in perspective. Unlike in the 50's and 60's the ability of manufacturing to shift in a moments notice to the land with the cheapest labor grows faster by the minute. I'm no jingoistic patriot but if I can buy American, I do if not American made, at least American assembled. I've no xenophobic problem with Chinese made goods, I'm just trying to keep some of my neighbors and countrymen employed. I've nothing against the Chinese, they're just trying to get where the we and the Japanese have already been.

Worf

Quite - the "cheap Chinese crap" is cheap because the Chinese, like all good capitalists, produce what the customer orders, to the customer's spec, at the required price point. One market I know is electric guitars. The Japanese had a reputation for building rubbish there, right up until the nineties - now they are building better guitars than many places (I'm certainly of the opinion the build a better Gretsch than ever Gretsch did in the USA. Much more consistent product - which is more to do with contemporary production methods, nothing to do with geography). Took them time to shed the prejudice (electric guitar players are unbelievably luddite), but they're there now for the most part. Korea went the same way once companies started shifting out of Japan looking somewhere cheaper to produce their bottom rung stuff - looked down on at firs,t now recognised as a place where many fine instruments are made. China is now fast becoming respected for the same. I can well understand the desire to buy local where practical (and, of course affordable). Certainly makes sense from an environmental point of view, though this is inevitably tempered by the reality of living in a global economy.

 

[Worf]

Quite - the "cheap Chinese crap" is cheap because the Chinese, like all good capitalists, produce what the customer orders, to the customer's spec, at the required price point. One market I know is electric guitars. The Japanese had a reputation for building rubbish there, right up until the nineties - now they are building better guitars than many places (I'm certainly of the opinion the build a better Gretsch than ever Gretsch did in the USA. Much more consistent product - which is more to do with contemporary production methods, nothing to do with geography). Took them time to shed the prejudice (electric guitar players are unbelievably luddite), but they're there now for the most part. Korea went the same way once companies started shifting out of Japan looking somewhere cheaper to produce their bottom rung stuff - looked down on at firs,t now recognised as a place where many fine instruments are made. China is now fast becoming respected for the same. I can well understand the desire to buy local where practical (and, of course affordable). Certainly makes sense from an environmental point of view, though this is inevitably tempered by the reality of living in a global economy.

As a bass player with a pretty good collection I can personally talk about the "copyright" battles between Fender, Gibson and primarily Yamaha and Ibanez in Japan. By the late 70's early 80's Japan was making Les Paul's and Strats that were virtually indistinguishable from American guitars costing 3 times the price. How bad did it get? It got so bad that Gibson, Fender and the rest sued the Japanese quitar makers for copyright infringement and won. Japanese quitar makers had to make their quitars completely distinguishable from the American models. Fast forward 30 to 40 years and these "copyright" quitars and basses have not only held their value but appreciated. Interesting times. Now lower rung quitars are made either in Korea or Sri Lanka.

Worf

 

[ButteMT61]

I grew up with grandfathers who called it J**-crap. And back then, it was pretty much that. I admit that I prefer to buy from certain regions if possible. It's more about the jobs than thinking XXX people can't make good things. But I would certainly balk at buying a US WWII repro from certain places. It would just not be "right" to me.
So for my WWII-inspired jackets, I like using Aero and GW.

 

[Aerojoe]

I admit that I prefer to buy from certain regions if possible. It's more about the jobs than thinking XXX people can't make good things.

I think the same way. I like Aero philosophy. They keep their business small, they stay in Scotland, I guess they employ local people and they offer a honest product. They do not move all their production to China, to a factory that produce zillons of jackets for thousands of different brands, they do not fire their local employees, they do not oversize their business or downsize their quality and they do not charge premium prices for junk made in China.

That's the problem I have buying Alpha jackets. I want one of those n-2b/n-3b cool parkas but I want it made in the USA, in a small town, by local employees that offer a good and honest product. If I wanted a chinese flight jacket, I'd rather go with one of those cool "model 59" that were designed in China for the chinese air force.

Damn it!

 

[ButteMT61]

Yup. X2!

 

[John in Covina]

I have had 20 years experience with Chinese products in Auto Parts and have a friend that imports accessories for cell phones for the last 3 years.

Many Chinese factories are quite capable of producing very good stuff, they follow specs and have great quality control. Usually these are run by companies the are outside of China and the parent company has staff on hand to insure that the raw materials are what they are supposed to be, that the machines are set up correctly and the tooling is in good shape. They monitor the quality control daily and have invested what ti takes to test and produce top quality goods. There are many companies in China that do not manufacture to spec or allow it to slip.
i have seen both.

 

[Edward]

As a bass player with a pretty good collection I can personally talk about the "copyright" battles between Fender, Gibson and primarily Yamaha and Ibanez in Japan. By the late 70's early 80's Japan was making Les Paul's and Strats that were virtually indistinguishable from American guitars costing 3 times the price. How bad did it get? It got so bad that Gibson, Fender and the rest sued the Japanese quitar makers for copyright infringement and won. Japanese quitar makers had to make their quitars completely distinguishable from the American models. Fast forward 30 to 40 years and these "copyright" quitars and basses have not only held their value but appreciated. Interesting times. Now lower rung quitars are made either in Korea or Sri Lanka.

Worf

Ah, yes... the so-called "lawsuit" guitars (which every Japanese guitar of a certain age gets branded these days, whether or not the company actually got sued... heh. If memory serves it was more a trade mar issue than copyright.... I'm sure I read somewhere that shapes can't be trade marked in Japan - hence Japanese market Tokais have the "correct" Les Paul shape headstock, and they are a much more visually accurate product than would be permitted in the US or the UK. Course the other - better - result was that the big boys started producing their more affordable lines, and instead of only trying to stop the competition by legal means, took it on in the market. Carrot as well as stick.

I grew up with grandfathers who called it J**-crap. And back then, it was pretty much that. I admit that I prefer to buy from certain regions if possible. It's more about the jobs than thinking XXX people can't make good things. But I would certainly balk at buying a US WWII repro from certain places. It would just not be "right" to me.
So for my WWII-inspired jackets, I like using Aero and GW.

I'm sure at a time there was a political / emotional pull to it as well, with the war generation. I've seen British propaganda posters from the 20s which had images of German Salesmen with their briefcases alongside an image of the same German men as Kaiser-serving, wehrmacht baby killers (seriously, drawing with them with babies on the end of their bayonets) with the whole angle of "buy British and not them - remember what they did!". At this distance, I do find myself somewhat amused by the fact that it is the Japanese who so often make such beautiful recreations of US WW2 flight jackets. It's be like some of the best Irvin replicas in the world being made in Dresden. I'm not sure whether it speaks of the Japanese as the ultimare capitalists or a very forgiving people - or both.

 

[ButteMT61]

I'm sure at a time there was a political / emotional pull to it as well, with the war generation. I've seen British propaganda posters from the 20s which had images of German Salesmen with their briefcases alongside an image of the same German men as Kaiser-serving, wehrmacht baby killers (seriously, drawing with them with babies on the end of their bayonets) with the whole angle of "buy British and not them - remember what they did!". At this distance, I do find myself somewhat amused by the fact that it is the Japanese who so often make such beautiful recreations of US WW2 flight jackets. It's be like some of the best Irvin replicas in the world being made in Dresden. I'm not sure whether it speaks of the Japanese as the ultimare capitalists or a very forgiving people - or both.

Indeed. There's no doubt - it was said with gusto, derived from a strong dislike, to say the least.As to modern Japan, I think they had their moments as well during that little skirmish, so I put it to capitalism more than anything. Time heals all - money accelerates it! lol

 

[regius]

my A2 collection, incomplete.
had some free time today, so I thought why not take a mass photo for the gathering of but not all of my A2 jackets. missing are two Horsehide Bill Kelso Rough Wear, a vintage naked cowhide Aero from 87, a Made in China/Korea horsehide like the one above, and an Orchard 92 issue goatskin. Also not in the pic are a GnB M422a, and a Vietnam G-1.

 

[regius]

first one on the very top: LLBean THINSULATED----Left column: Eastman Roughwear, Aero early 00s red Silk lining red knits, Cockpit USA horsehide, Aero steerhide, Orchard capeskin sample, vintage Flight Suits goatskin----right column: GnB Mark 31, Eastman goatskin, Willis n Geiger goatskin, Real McQueen NZ, Saddlery issue----two in the middle bottom: Aero limited edition Don Marshall painted, Cooper defense contract.

 

[regius]

 

[regius]

 

[regius]

A2 collection

 

[ButteMT61]

Did you hide those from your wife? lol

 

[Edward]

Nice collection! Hoe are you finding the Bill Kelsos stack up against the lieks of an Aero? I was weighing up an Aero Real Deal against a Kelso for my next A2 (I "need" a russet), but given the last price rises the Kelso is more realistic for me (rather spend more money on one of Aero's civilian jackets). Still waiting to see the Kelso website updated with their new, contract-specific designs.