MA1: What is it?

[Edward]

Thanks, Atticus (I was hoping you'd post, I know you're another one of the nylon experts on FL!). Interesting how they varied.... also how, as time went on, they increasingly look the same as an MA1, which makes a lot of sense; it must have been easier to produce virtually the same jacket with the biggest difference being the padding, or lack thereof, between shell and liner; this would also preserve a more constant uniform look across conditions / seasons. I presume they switched to the orange 'rescue signal' lining at the same time as the MA1?

BTW.... recently bought a NOS Alpha B15-C Replica Series jacket based on your recommendations - really, really pleased. Still humming and hawing over buying a second one to squirrel away.... and fingers crossed for an L2-A from that series. Can't justify the GBP400 price of a Buzz, but I've really come to like those lighter nylon jackets.

 

[Peacoat]

Atticus: My 1967 Satellite is (not surprisingly) identical to yours of that same year. My 1969 Alpha light L2-B has the epaulets and the flap pocket. Your 1971 Alpha has only the flap pockets. To further confuse things, I have an intermediate 1969 Alpha that is configured the same as the 1967 Satellite. My 1966 L2-B had the same configuration as the 1967 Satellite.

The styles seemed to have changed quite a bit in just a year or so back then.

 

[Edward]

It does indeed! Presumably these were different contracts of who knows how many jackets, but even so, it does seem to be a lot of change in a small space of time. This reminds me of the variations and developments in the USAAF jackets after the replacement of the A2 in 1943 - the B-10, then the B15, the B15A... they all seemed to follow in relatively short order... that's why I wondered whether either the need to make 'wartime economy' during the Vietnam conflict or changing notions of what 'worked' in the field during a prolonged combat campaign were an influence here.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Thanks, Edward, but I'm only a nylon jacket novice when compared to some folks on this forum...and on VLJ.

I love leather jackets, especially G-1s, but to me, the trusty MA-1 is the most comfortable and most practical flight jacket ever designed. Evidently, the armed services agree. They used it from the mid-fifties until they grounded it in the late seventies after Nomex was invented. Even then, it continued to be issued to ground crew. I've always thought the design should have remained a flight jacket, but made from Nomex as opposed to nylon.

MA-1s are warm in cold weather and comfortable in mild weather. I’ve worn them in Wisconsin Januarys and in North Carolina Aprils. They have usable, accessible pockets inside and out. They look great with khakis and a tie and with jeans. I'll admit that leather jackets look cool and have great character, but if the temperature is lower than forty…or if I’m actually flying in a plane…I’d rather wear a MA-1.

AF

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

As far as I know, Israeli military seems to have switched recently from their "dubon" parka to a MA1 derivative (with epaulettes) as an issued garment for all the troops (I think they already kept using MA1s for pilots, and one particular version with fake mouton collar, "a la B15", for army officers);
which testifies about the reliability and practical validity of the jacket well beyond its original purpose.

Italian air force used to issue a L2 jacket (even in the official designation it was called "giacca tipo L2" if I remember correctly what I've read) with a removable liner, covering both L2 and MA1 temperature range.

Well, I wore a MA1 when I was boy, not for its military origin but because I found it practical (later I used an M65... ) and wasn't disappointed a single time: just warm enough for an italian winter

 

[bumphrey hogart]

Thanks, Edward, but I'm only a nylon jacket novice when compared to some folks on this forum...and on VLJ.

I love leather jackets, especially G-1s, but to me, the trusty MA-1 is the most comfortable and most practical flight jacket ever designed. Evidently, the armed services agree. They used it from the mid-fifties until they grounded it in the late seventies after Nomex was invented. Even then, it continued to be issued to ground crew. I've always thought the design should have remained a flight jacket, but made from Nomex as opposed to nylon.

MA-1s are warm in cold weather and comfortable in mild weather. I’ve worn them in Wisconsin Januarys and in North Carolina Aprils. They have usable, accessible pockets inside and out. They look great with khakis and a tie and with jeans. I'll admit that leather jackets look cool and have great character, but if the temperature is lower than forty…or if I’m actually flying in a plane…I’d rather wear a MA-1.

AF

Which is why I,going back to the start of the thread,I love my leather MA1's,I know they're not militarily correct but I was never in the forces and am not a 're-enactmentist' but just the comfort and ease of wearing of the MA1 style can't be beat,the pockets are in exactly the right place for handwarming,they're just so comfortable.The problem with the nylon ones over here is they've become associated with the skinhead scene which now unfortunately has racist connotations,but in leather I get the best of both worlds,one of the most perfectly designed and comfortable jackets ever made, in a material that has all the character you could wish for.(Sorry if I've offended any of the purists amongst us,not intentional).

 

[Edward]

That is an unfortunate reality, the association with racist skins. I do often wonder whether that's a subconscious reason why I prefer the B15 with its mouton collar. Shame, really, that it carries such an association; the skinhead look, viewed objectively as nothing other than a fashion statement, is such a strong, working class style. There are times when I teeter on the edge of it myself - not deliberately, but more that I do enjoy a bit of a rockabilly vibe in armer months with a harrington over denim, and being a shaven-headed type myself.... Only ever been called a Nazi when wearing a fedora and a long, wool coat, though. [huh]

 

[bumphrey hogart]

That is an unfortunate reality, the association with racist skins. I do often wonder whether that's a subconscious reason why I prefer the B15 with its mouton collar. Shame, really, that it carries such an association; the skinhead look, viewed objectively as nothing other than a fashion statement, is such a strong, working class style. There are times when I teeter on the edge of it myself - not deliberately, but more that I do enjoy a bit of a rockabilly vibe in armer months with a harrington over denim, and being a shaven-headed type myself.... Only ever been called a Nazi when wearing a fedora and a long, wool coat, though. [huh]

And the strange thing is that when the whole skin thing started it was completely the opposite,skins in the late 60's were mods who got into ska and were the first whites to begin to integrate with the west indian community.How the hell did it get hi-jacked by the racists?And the MA1 with it!

 

[Papa M]

How the hell did it get hi-jacked by the racists?

I was always baffled when I saw black kids dressed in skin-head attire tagging along with those nasty racist thugs for a bit of "Paki-bashing".

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

When I wore an MA1 I was a boy and completely unaware of their association with "skins"; and I guess nobody ever took me for one of those!
Nowadays I see MA1s only on soccer hooligans or stuff; or MA1's cheap knock-offs supplied by small firms (with embroidered logos) to their workers.
For the rest, it's kind of disappeared from the streets.

On the other hand, it's also a matter of fashion: I used to wear also a M65, which isn't associated with anything in this country, and these too have disappeared...

PS
Has anybody outside of Italy ever heardd of "eskimos"? These were long, hooded, heavily lined parkas, very similar to N3Bs, that in the '70s became an icon of workers and left-leaning intellectuals. Very very warm, even too much for Italy. Estinct!

 

[Atticus Finch]

I recall the MA-1/skinhead discussion being raised on VLJ some time ago. Interesting. We don't have very many skinheads in eastern North Carolina. Maybe that's because everyone here over the age of five carries a gun. I donno. Since I've never met a real skinhead, I've never much associated the MA-1 with them or racists. Now dont get me wrong...we do have racists. We have truck loads of them, actually. But they don't wear MA-1s. Mostly they wear suits, ties and nicely polished shoes.

AF

 

[Justhandguns]

Well, thank God that we don't have that in London. Yesterday when I was on my way back home on the train, just bumped into two big lads, one Caucasian and the other African origin standing next to each other, both wearing some kind of MA-1 variants, one blue and one dark green. It was just a pity that I was not wearing my L-2B on that particular day (I am Chinese), that would make an interesting trio in that tiny spot of the train.

 

[Atticus Finch]

...It was just a pity that I was not wearing my L-2B on that particular day (I am Chinese), that would make an interesting trio in that tiny spot of the train.

To paraphrase Arlo Guthrie, people could've thought it was some kinda movement!!

AF

 

[trix400]

MA-1 styled cotton jacket;military issue?

I am new to this and am not sure how to start a thread, but my question pertains to the MA-1. Years ago (about 25) I got a jacket from a friend
that looked exactly like the MA-1 except that it was cotton. It was lost after awhile and am trying to find out what it was exactly and find one. I am almost positive it was a military issue jacket. Anyone have any idea?

 

[Peacoat]

To start a new thread, go to the first page of the Outerwear section. At the top of the page to the left, there is a button that says, "Start A New Thread." Click that button and away you go.

To answer your question, there were flight jackets in cotton, issued as replacements for the A-2. Without a picture, I can't help you--there are too many possibilities, including civilian test pilot flight jackets--but someone on the board might be able to do so. If not, then go to VLJ in the cloth section and ask the question there. The link is: http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/viewforum.php?f=10&start=25 You will need to join first. The guys there are specialists in leather, nylon, nomex and cloth flight jackets.

Oh, and welcome to the Lounge. PC.