MA-1 Flight jacket

[Ernest P Shackleton]

Check out those curves!

 

[Doctor Damage]

there's some nylon L2B action in the first few minutes of this video:

it's a pretty tension-filled video to be honest

 

[Doctor Damage]

lots of MA-1s in here, plus B-15s and a leather jacket (sorry, can't remember the source link)

 

[Fifty150]

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

Thanks for posting that. My goodness was that over the top. The music. Dramatic marketing propaganda. I'm confused to whom that appeals though? The young people aren't going to care about that. If it is about brand, they'd rather have a Kanye West Yeezy, Gucci or Fendi (even if fake) than anything "heritage", and the older guys who were the only ones wearing these on a public bus or fixing their car, other than the skinheads of various factions, aren't going to care about any of that because they can read tags and call "BS!" IMO, that video plays to the global market that can still be sold on the USA brand in general. These companies are in a difficult spot. Same for Filson, Pendleton, White's, Nick's, Wesco, or any old blue collar premium brand with a changing customer base. They're damned if they do, and they're damned if they don't. And they have to, or the market will absorb them.

*that second video is funny. As they talk about the M-65, they don't show an M-65. They show Robert Duvall in a BDU shirt and Robert De Niro in an M-51.

It's been how many years now, and I'm still surprised by how the MA-1 (and now N-3B) is such a fashion staple. Turn on practically any Bravo or MTV reality show, and within five minutes, you'll see an MA-1. You could even make a drinking game out of it and get drunk.

This is an old article. I'd like to see an update, now that they have the slim fit and other modifications.
https://hypebeast.com/2016/1/kanye-west-increases-alpha-industries-ma-1-bomber-sales

 

[Fifty150]

I'm still surprised by how the MA-1 (and now N-3B) is such a fashion staple.

 

[Fifty150]

I see young people wearing MA-1 all the time. Alpha has been aggressive with marketing to make up for lost sales. Military hasn't issued MA-1 , M-65, N-3B, or N-2B for about 2 decades. Youth subculture is finicky. But in the winter, they are cold.

And for the past few years, a furry hooded, down jacket, similar to an N-3B, has become the NY mom jacket. An unknown seller has become the #1 women's jacket on Amazon. Kyle on South Park wore a furry hood trim, snorkel parka. A gang of kids attacks a little girl in New York, and you can clearly see the suspects wearing N-3B style coats. The waitress at my favorite cafe wears 1.

These designs will be timeless styles. Every few fashion seasons, we will see them coming back. Like the skinny tie with the keyboard print, and Converse sneakers.

 

[Seb Lucas]

We'd never heard of an MA-1 in Australia until the internet educated us. We just knew them as nylon bus driver's jackets. The slightly longer fitting fake ones were worn by almost every second working man in Melbourne in the 1980's, especially the navy version.

I think it was the Costner flick Bull Durham that got us thinking they may have been a military jacket originally. One of the first things I ever looked up on the internet almost 20 yeas ago - "What kind of green nylon jacket does Kevin Costner wear in Bull Durham?" A little later I bought a made in America Alpha MA-1. I wasn't prepared for the short and squat fit.

Here is Costner wearing an MA-1 and a Sarandon.

 

[Fifty150]

I was in the commercial uniform distributor for a few odds & ends. The military styles are not official uniform for us. However, they are issued for specific training exercises, as a discreet way to cover the uniform top's badge & patches when in non-public-contact assignments, and used as uniform with patches for very specific assignments. Over the years, they have issued to me Alpha, Rothco, Propper, Spiewak, et cetera.

I asked the store manager why they have different brands, instead of just Alpha. The answer was pricing and availability. Our agency's contract specifies "3/4 length field jacket, 4 large pockets", or "short, waist length, bomber style jacket". Brand is not specified. And whichever company wants to have the store sell their product, they must maintain a certain level of quality. No batches of bad zippers, bad seams, or a sudden change order without reason; like cheap polyester instead of nylon or NyCo blend. After that, it's who can provide the best prices, be able to supply without backorder, and accept overstocks & returns. The store does not want 1,000 size small, no XXL, size large tall on backorder, navy blue not available in medium until next September, et cetera.

I'm sure that "collectors" and "enthusiast" will have preferences for specific manufacturer's and their product lines. Some people love that slim fit, modern jacket, which was never issued into military service. Other people insist on details such as zippers. "Made In USA" is another "must have" for some connissuers of militaria.

As for my specific experience, I don't like the slim fit. I like the original cut. Better for layering. More range of motion. And that little bit of extra puffy jacket helps conceal a holstered handgun. The Made In China Rothco is just as warm, nylon shell is water repellant in the rain, knit cuffs, collar, and waist hold up well, and the zipper works fine. I agree that the Alpha has a smoother zipper, knit cuff, collar, and waist does not feel like cheap socks, and the outer shell looks and feels more robust.

Water resistant is not waterproof. These were not made to be "waterproof breathable". Military technology of that era was to use a poncho and liner. You can't possibly expect to work outdoors, in the rain, all day. This is just good enough for you to be in The City, a sudden shower sprinkles you, and you run to your car, or the nearest awning, and work your way to permanent dry cover (i.e. a building).

As an issued work garment, paid for by the employer, I don't care. I'll get a uniform voucher for another one as needed. And because it's not "uniform", with no identification, shoulder patches, or unit insignia; we are issued different colors. They don't want everyone running around in the same black bomber. Sometimes, for whatever reason, they have alternative stock. I got a B-15 style once, and just didn't like it as much. The furry collar sort of got in the way and didn't feel comfortable to me. I was in there today, and they had a couple of CWU 45 style, and I am not so sure that I want the collar on the jacket. I'm sort of used to the collarless knit band.

Since I am not a collector, connoisseur, enthusiast, or fanatic; I would say that the best value per dollar spent is Rothco. Very close to military specification. Effective and functional. About $35, compared to upwards of $200. My opinion is purely based on price. I'm not buying a Rothco jacket to last a lifetime. Although I will tell you, that in several decades of service, Rothco jackets do hold up. I've never been out in the field, where a sudden physical movement like sprinting and climbing a wall, resulted in a burst seam or ripped fabric.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I was in the commercial uniform distributor for a few odds & ends. The military styles are not official uniform for us. However, they are issued for specific training exercises, as a discreet way to cover the uniform top's badge & patches when in non-public-contact assignments, and used as uniform with patches for very specific assignments. Over the years, they have issued to me Alpha, Rothco, Propper, Spiewak, et cetera.

I asked the store manager why they have different brands, instead of just Alpha. The answer was pricing and availability. Our agency's contract specifies "3/4 length field jacket, 4 large pockets", or "short, waist length, bomber style jacket". Brand is not specified. And whichever company wants to have the store sell their product, they must maintain a certain level of quality. No batches of bad zippers, bad seams, or a sudden change order without reason; like cheap polyester instead of nylon or NyCo blend. After that, it's who can provide the best prices, be able to supply without backorder, and accept overstocks & returns. The store does not want 1,000 size small, no XXL, size large tall on backorder, navy blue not available in medium until next September, et cetera.

I'm sure that "collectors" and "enthusiast" will have preferences for specific manufacturer's and their product lines. Some people love that slim fit, modern jacket, which was never issued into military service. Other people insist on details such as zippers. "Made In USA" is another "must have" for some connissuers of militaria.

As for my specific experience, I don't like the slim fit. I like the original cut. Better for layering. More range of motion. And that little bit of extra puffy jacket helps conceal a holstered handgun. The Made In China Rothco is just as warm, nylon shell is water repellant in the rain, knit cuffs, collar, and waist hold up well, and the zipper works fine. I agree that the Alpha has a smoother zipper, knit cuff, collar, and waist does not feel like cheap socks, and the outer shell looks and feels more robust.

Water resistant is not waterproof. These were not made to be "waterproof breathable". Military technology of that era was to use a poncho and liner. You can't possibly expect to work outdoors, in the rain, all day. This is just good enough for you to be in The City, a sudden shower sprinkles you, and you run to your car, or the nearest awning, and work your way to permanent dry cover (i.e. a building).

As an issued work garment, paid for by the employer, I don't care. I'll get a uniform voucher for another one as needed. And because it's not "uniform", with no identification, shoulder patches, or unit insignia; we are issued different colors. They don't want everyone running around in the same black bomber. Sometimes, for whatever reason, they have alternative stock. I got a B-15 style once, and just didn't like it as much. The furry collar sort of got in the way and didn't feel comfortable to me. I was in there today, and they had a couple of CWU 45 style, and I am not so sure that I want the collar on the jacket. I'm sort of used to the collarless knit band.

Since I am not a collector, connoisseur, enthusiast, or fanatic; I would say that the best value per dollar spent is Rothco. Very close to military specification. Effective and functional. About $35, compared to upwards of $200. My opinion is purely based on price. I'm not buying a Rothco jacket to last a lifetime. Although I will tell you, that in several decades of service, Rothco jackets do hold up. I've never been out in the field, where a sudden physical movement like sprinting and climbing a wall, resulted in a burst seam or ripped fabric.

Everyone has subjective reasons for their preferences which make sense to them. Since I am tall and slim, I like slim fit items - not because they are fashionable, because I look better in them and they fit better. I have owned made in USA Alphas and made in China/Vietnam Alphas. The USA made one were thicker, stronger, better.

Generally my preference is for better quality which, though not a science, I gauge by materials used and workmanship. Price doesn't much matter to me as I am not living on a budget, but my thrifty nature will stop me paying certain high prices like those of Buzz, for instance. Although in the right mood who knows? I like the idea that you could buy a high quality MA-1 from Rothco for almost no money. It should be possible to make a good nylon jacket for a reasonable price. The reviews I have heard regarding Rothco previously were not great.

 

[Fifty150]

Generally my preference is for better quality

I agree. I like quality as well.

The reviews I have heard regarding Rothco previously were not great.

No. Rothco is not great. Especially if you compare it something really good. That's why a Rothco is about $30.

I like the idea that you could buy a high quality MA-1 from Rothco for almost no money.

It's worth what you pay. You don't pay much. But you get better than you expect.

 

[Fifty150]

I'm confused to whom that appeals though? The young people aren't going to care about that.

Ambient temp was at or about 50℉. Wind was blowing. Raining.

As I was out running errands today, I noticed that the youth are very brand conscious and label specific.

A lot of Alpha MA-1 worn by youth. Under 30. Some young enough to register you as an offender, for just looking at them. They all had those red "Remove before Flight" tags hanging off the sleeve pockets. It's somewhat of a status symbol jacket. Upwards of $150 a jacket. Worn with casual street clothes like $150 LuLu Lemon yoga pants and $150 basketball shoes.

 

[Fifty150]

UniQlo has also gotten into the flight jacket marketing. Apparently Pendleton shirts are also popular in Japan. As a kid growing up on The Left Coast, we wore Pendleton and Levi's. Which is still what kids are wearing today.

 

[El Marro]

Wearing my NOS Alpha MA-1 which arrived yesterday.

I’m pretty pleased with this purchase. Not as nice as my Buzz Rickson but it fits better and it only cost me $100. Come to think of it, maybe that makes it nicer than my Buzz Rickson!

 

[Fifty150]

it only cost me $100

Yuuup. It's a winner. Fits well, and at a good price. Is it warm? Have you worn it in inclement weather yet?

 

[El Marro]

Yuuup. It's a winner. Fits well, and at a good price. Is it warm? Have you worn it in inclement weather yet?

I haven’t worn it outside the house yet but it feels like it should be able to handle the Bay Area weather just fine.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Wearing my NOS Alpha MA-1 which arrived yesterday.
View attachment 220231
I’m pretty pleased with this purchase. Not as nice as my Buzz Rickson but it fits better and it only cost me $100. Come to think of it, maybe that makes it nicer than my Buzz Rickson!

That looks awesome. What size is it and is it a US made version? How would you describe the difference in the nylon between that and the Buzz?

 

[Fifty150]

it should be able to handle the Bay Area weather just fine

We have a lot of microclimates here. Even in different parts of The City. It's typically cold, foggy, and windy out here by The Beach. At the same time, plenty of sunshine in The Mish. And I found out that it's cold every night, even in summer, in Hunters Point. And with the greater Bay Area, where I have a cool, windy, summer day of 60 degree Fahrenheit, Livermore, Concord, San Jose could go into the 90's and triple digits. Marin, Sonoma, & Napa could throw you onto another roller coaster ride.

Then we get the atmospheric river, El Nino, and PineApple Express. In San Francisco, with all the hills, there's always a low point. I've seen entire streets go under water.

Plenty of days in the year where I need more than just a t-shirt & a flight jacket.

 

[El Marro]

That looks awesome. What size is it and is it a US made version? How would you describe the difference in the nylon between that and the Buzz?

Seb, my new Alpha is an XL. For reference, I am 6’1” and 185 pounds at the moment. It is a US made version.
The nylon on the Buzz feels thicker and stiffer than the Alpha. It also has a nice sheen to it that the Alpha lacks. Even more noticeable is the difference in the lining. The wool batting in the Buzz is much thicker and heavier. While this definitely makes for a warmer jacket it also contributes to a puffy marshmallow look that I am not too fond of. For that reason alone I think that the Alpha is going to get a lot more where than the Buzz ever has.

 

[El Marro]

We have a lot of microclimates here. Even in different parts of The City. It's typically cold, foggy, and windy out here by The Beach. At the same time, plenty of sunshine in The Mish. And I found out that it's cold every night, even in summer, in Hunters Point. And with the greater Bay Area, where I have a cool, windy, summer day of 60 degree Fahrenheit, Livermore, Concord, San Jose could go into the 90's and triple digits. Marin, Sonoma, & Napa could throw you onto another roller coaster ride.

Then we get the atmospheric river, El Nino, and PineApple Express. In San Francisco, with all the hills, there's always a low point. I've seen entire streets go under water.

Plenty of days in the year where I need more than just a t-shirt & a flight jacket.

Very true.
I live in Berkeley but I spent the first 10 years of my life across the bay out in the Avenues in the Sunset District where the sun rarely shined...
While we do have a wide variety of weather in a relatively small area I think the Alpha MA-1 will handle my needs since I am rarely out and about in temperatures below 45 degrees or so. Rain is a different thing, I don’t think I’m gonna try this one out in the rain because I have my LW CHP that is practically waterproof.