MA-1 Flight jacket

[HPA Rep]

And I want to clarify my stance (as if it matters) on buying from China/India/Vietnam, etc. I have no qualms buying quality items made anywhere. However, my first choice, assuming equal or better quality, is to help keep Americans employed. I'm not ashamed to say it or believe in it. I would wager most adults feel that way about where they live. I grew up with grandparents who always called stuff "Jap crap". At the time, it was. But look at Japan today.
I want the people making anything I buy treated well, and making a living wage. Ken @ Aero just posted up a bit about this on VLJ this week.
Sadly, here in the States, the labor needed to make things we like is a shrinking pool of talent. Aside from these rogue young folks learning trades, we've abandoned them in our schools, etc.

Well said, Butte, and on point about the workforce no longer being here. This reminds me of a project I was working on for Toyo's Lone Wolf footwear brand some years ago. We wanted to have some styles made in the USA and set about getting samples made by some makers. Usually, by the third round of samples one expects to have a sample that is just about flawless, but after three rounds of revisions from HH Brown (makers of Carolina and Corcoran brands), there were flaws present that were addressed in the first sample. They then said that they didn't think they could achieve the same quality of the Japanese-made Lone Wolf brand and that the footwear these were based on that was made in the USA 50 years ago was produced by a workforce that just didn't exist here today.

That, I believe, was and is true for them, but there are, obviously, some small number of workers here who can produce quality, but the cost for their goods is such that the footwear would be no less costly than if buying from Japan.

I will go out of my way to not support China and Vietnam because the governments are involved in a big way and it is the governments I oppose, in addition to any companies that take advantage of workers. Very sadly, western corporations pulled off one of the greatest shell games in history, whereby they managed to shift production offshore and maintain the same pricing from when the goods were made here, thus artificially conditioning consumers to a price standard that did not keep pace with inflation if production resumed in the west. Now that the consumer has been so conditioned, those offshore-produced goods cannot practically be made again here without sharp increases in prices that would send most consumers into a whirling dervish. If such a plan were put in place across the board, we'd see hyper inflation as workers wages would rise to keep pace with the new costs and all companies would, in turn, also increase costs to offset the pay raises.

I'm afraid to say that getting the Genie back in the bottle is not going to come without extreme pain.

 

[Doctor Damage]

I will go out of my way to not support China and Vietnam because the governments are involved in a big way and it is the governments I oppose, in addition to any companies that take advantage of workers. Very sadly, western corporations pulled off one of the greatest shell games in history, whereby they managed to shift production offshore and maintain the same pricing from when the goods were made here, thus artificially conditioning consumers to a price standard that did not keep pace with inflation if production resumed in the west. Now that the consumer has been so conditioned, those offshore-produced goods cannot practically be made again here without sharp increases in prices that would send most consumers into a whirling dervish. If such a plan were put in place across the board, we'd see hyper inflation as workers wages would rise to keep pace with the new costs and all companies would, in turn, also increase costs to offset the pay raises.

Excellent points, Charles. There are a lot of economic and social shocks coming to the West soon, most of them self-made.

 

[ButteMT61]

...That, I believe, was and is true for them, but there are, obviously, some small number of workers here who can produce quality, but the cost for their goods is such that the footwear would be no less costly than if buying from Japan.

I will go out of my way to not support China and Vietnam because the governments are involved in a big way and it is the governments I oppose, in addition to any companies that take advantage of workers...

Nail on the head. What I find highly offensive - and why I posted this - is that some think that it's because people are "racist". It's the usual lazy reply to a very complicated issue. If all the goods we buy from South Korea came from the North, I'd never buy them. I try hard to not do Chinese as like you, I find the government and worker's treatment there appalling.
It's impossible to purge one's life (if you consume) of goods made in places with no respect for workers. But I try as much as possible to use local vendors first, then move outward.

I think from reading much here, that places like Aero, GW, Thurston, and HPE are exceptional customer-centric places that I can send my money to and feel good. I'll do that any day over a fly by night "shop" on ebay or the like.

 

[ButteMT61]

Excellent points, Charles. There are a lot of economic and social shocks coming to the West soon, most of them self-made.

They're already here. It would be impossible to discuss this without getting political, so it's best to end it now. The US sadly is a sinking ship in many ways. Fewer have more, more have less. Not a recipe for success here.

 

[HPA Rep]

Nail on the head. What I find highly offensive - and why I posted this - is that some think that it's because people are "racist". It's the usual lazy reply to a very complicated issue. If all the goods we buy from South Korea came from the North, I'd never buy them. I try hard to not do Chinese as like you, I find the government and worker's treatment there appalling.
It's impossible to purge one's life (if you consume) of goods made in places with no respect for workers. But I try as much as possible to use local vendors first, then move outward.

I think from reading much here, that places like Aero, GW, Thurston, and HPE are exceptional customer-centric places that I can send my money to and feel good. I'll do that any day over a fly by night "shop" on ebay or the like.

Thank you very, very much, Butte. I endeavor to earn your sentiments every day.

 

[Edward]

Saw these last night Edward, look good for the money, numbers don't work for me or I'd have a punt (bloody shoulders).

Looked into the DD Nylon range too & after calculating final costs (inc import) concluded that at present for me....they are too rich for my blood.

I know what you mean. Buzz are pricey in the UK (not to mention hard to find), but the US made stuff just doesn't stack up at least while the pound remains in the toilet.

https://world.taobao.com/item/542501724554.htm
Shops like ATF, WPG Sessler and Houston etc have been sourcing from China some years ago. The factories that produce for them might have make these under own label or for local shops. IMO Bronson and Bob Dong put in the most efforts and produced better products than the rest (except leather jackets).

Same seller has a (slightly more expensive) Bronson MA1 which looks nice. I've heard good things about both those brands. The Bob Dong convict jacket would have been really tempting if they'd had my size.

 

[MeachamLake]

I know what you mean. Buzz are pricey in the UK (not to mention hard to find), but the US made stuff just doesn't stack up at least while the pound remains in the toilet.



Same seller has a (slightly more expensive) Bronson MA1 which looks nice. I've heard good things about both those brands. The Bob Dong convict jacket would have been really tempting if they'd had my size.

Those Jinruishi MA-1s and L2Bs look really nice for the money...I emailed an eBay seller who is also selling these and he recommended a 2XL based on my measurements.

I might give them a go! Anyone else ordered one previously?

 

[bn1966]

Shoulders too narrow or I'd have a pop Bigger Buzz's fit but often too long.....

 

[MeachamLake]

I'm still searching for a decent level MA-1 that has some resemblance to the original...is heavy sage green nylon and grey knits too much to ask for?

Here is a pretty cool variant on the MA-1 by Abercrombie & Fitch. Not a full repro - it's cotton rather than nylon - but I rather like it. The finer details on the exterior at least, are there; one piece back, chunky windflap, snapper pockets, correct sleeve pocket layout...it could make a pretty cool spring jacket.

I have been very impressed with the clothes I've handled and seen from A&F recently, they have really stepped up their game and make some pretty decent stuff by 'mainstream' standards now. Pricing seems reasonable too - if I get a good discount code I might give this a shot.

https://www.abercrombie.co.uk/shop/uk/p/bomber-jacket-10775469?seq=04&categoryId=84950&ofp=true

 

[Big J]

'Abercro' as it's known here, is one of my wife's favorite casual wear brands (which seems odd right? I always think of it as something my daughters should be into instead). The quality of some items is pretty good. My wife got an awesome waxed red cotton hooded jacket a couple of years back. Very good quality.
But looking at that jacket, the proportions seem somehow strange to me. Pockets too low? Body too long? Sleeves too short? I don't know.

 

[Edward]

Definitely that A&F is much too long in the body to look like an original. If anything, it looks like a shortened version of the knee-length "MA1s" that were briefly fashionable a Winter or two ago. Fine for somebody who wants an MA1-style jacket that is

This guy on eBay seems to have a lot of the Bob Dong/ Bronson / Overstock stuff coming out of China at the minute that is building a bit of a buzz as the Japanese items begin to go beyond many people's budget - https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/dlzlitchi2?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 The L2A looks nice. Notably, he seems to have at least some things in a range thaqt goes up a size or two from what I've seen from most of them before, which is a plus.

 

[dubpynchon]

Definitely that A&F is much too long in the body to look like an original. If anything, it looks like a shortened version of the knee-length "MA1s" that were briefly fashionable a Winter or two ago. Fine for somebody who wants an MA1-style jacket that is

This guy on eBay seems to have a lot of the Bob Dong/ Bronson / Overstock stuff coming out of China at the minute that is building a bit of a buzz as the Japanese items begin to go beyond many people's budget - https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/dlzlitchi2?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 The L2A looks nice. Notably, he seems to have at least some things in a range thaqt goes up a size or two from what I've seen from most of them before, which is a plus.

Thanks for that link Edward, there's some good stuff on it.

 

[bn1966]

There's a Replica series 'Vintage' Alpha MA-1 on EBay UK at the moment, it's a Medium, if it was an XL I'd be all over it. These are great quality textiles with heavy inter linings and thick nylon shells.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Replica or Vintage series Alpha L2B, NOS. Great looking jacket.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Alpha Replica series MA-1 with red tag from around 2000 or something. The very first flight jacket I bought was one of these. It fit great and was really heavy. I had it cleaned and then the thick wool insulation started bunching in my armpits, which drives me nuts, so I sold it on. Weird. Anyways, these fit slim and long, so if you're tall and skinny and find normal flights jackets to be too roomy and too short then look for one of these. The heavily ribbed knits are a giveaway: they're not historically accurate, but they make it easy to i.d. this particular model.

 

[Distant People]

In your experience how do original size large MA-1s fit? Closer to a 38, 40 or 42? Looking at a 1968 Alpha at the moment. Thank you for any advice.

 

[bn1966]

I purchased 3 original Alpha MA-1 (service issue) of recent times in XL, I'm a 46" and found the 3 to be about a 44" IMHO..close but no cigar!

 

[Distant People]

Well then it looks like the Large will be 42. Fingers crossed and thank you for the quick reply!

 

[Doctor Damage]

Well then it looks like the Large will be 42. Fingers crossed and thank you for the quick reply!

There are no guarantees with sizing on vintage jackets. Sizing/fit is all over the place. One jacket that's a Large will measure differently than another jacket that's also a Large. Basically, the vintage MA-1 jackets are reasonably roomy in the chest but short in the torso. If you're over 6' tall, then there's a very real chance one of these will be too short to wear. Honestly, you're probably better off buying a Buzz Rickson replica, which is 100% the same as the vintage jackets, but has the benefits of being new and consistent sizing.

 

[bn1966]

Alpha Replica series MA-1 with red tag from around 2000 or something. The very first flight jacket I bought was one of these. It fit great and was really heavy. I had it cleaned and then the thick wool insulation started bunching in my armpits, which drives me nuts, so I sold it on. Weird. Anyways, these fit slim and long, so if you're tall and skinny and find normal flights jackets to be too roomy and too short then look for one of these. The heavily ribbed knits are a giveaway: they're not historically accurate, but they make it easy to i.d. this particular model.

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Had one of these in the XL (too big) pretty much identical (same label & pocket tag) but the knits weren't ribbed....not a slim fit for sure..funny how they vary.

Purchased a 'Vintage' series in XL blue (by accident..thought it was a green one). Two previous deliberate 'blue' purchases came in a whole inch less in the shoulders than green version so were re-sold. Accidental 'blue' an inch more in the shoulders & thus a regular beater...