M-421A - who makes them?

[MeachamLake]

One jacket I’ve been after for quite some time but with no luck thus far, is the M-421A.

Buzz Ricksons did make one in the past, but no longer. I cannot find anyone who makes a repro of it anymore.

To me, I’m not sure why this jacket isn’t more popular or mentioned more frequently around these parts. A lightweight, spring/summer flying jacket with practical pockets and some genuine USN heritage? Ticks all the right boxes for me. I’d love to get one someday.

 

[Deacon211]

See that there aren't any replies yet.

There was a thread not too long a ago that either started as or turned into a m-421 thread. IIRC, there aren't many makers and the most affordable of those was actually a Ralph Lauren inspired on or something like that.


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[Deacon211]

Closest I've found

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ARMY-NAVY-...357018?hash=item2cc9a15eda:g:qGkAAOSw65FXs5Hz

Thanks to Thor in this thread,

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/usn-m421-a.31810/page-2


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[MeachamLake]

Thanks, @Deacon211, I just found that thread myself a few moments ago!

I've come across this very similar repro for sale here on eBay. Listed as a M-421B, but looks identical. In my size too! Just waiting on the seller to provide some measurements.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M-421B-US...471259?hash=item25d60572db:g:DxIAAOSwll1WvIeV

Still can't fathom why these jackets aren't as popular as they deserve to be...!

 

[MeachamLake]

Just a quick update on this for anybody who is interested...

The eBay seller of the What Price Glory versions I was interested in just ignored all my emails regarding sizing, so I gave up on that.

I did find something kind of interesting though...a guy was selling a brand new Abercrombie & Fitch jacket which nobody else bid on. I got it for £40 shipped. It's not a dead on repro - no action back, knitted cuffs rather than plain are the two biggest differences - but it's clearly inspired by the M-421A. It feels nicely put together, nice material, unlined interior, talon zip...I can't complain for the price I paid. Plus it fits me really well. This should do me nicely until I find a proper repro somewhere down the line!

 

[Edward]

The only versions I've seen are the WPG one (affordable, serviceable, not the very most accurate by all accounts, but if you only want it for civilian wear that won't matter so much) and some of the big name Japanese labels (silly, silly money for such a simple jacket).

Here's a thought, though. Wested do their Indy jacket in a cotton version for GBP75.

https://www.wested.com/authentic-su...n-brown-cotton-standard-stock-size-1976-p.asp

Action back, no knit cuffs, overall, a pretty close jacket to the USN one you're after. Perhaps they might be open to making one in a lighter colour; they have done custom work for Floungers in the past, so you could try and see. If they're open to it, they could adapt a few of the small differences, like buttons insteado f studs on the pockets. I'm actually very tempted to get myself one of their cotton Indys (Indies?) as is for next Summer when ti gets just too hot for leather.... Have owned a goat Radiers and it is tremendously practical for travel.

 

[Blackadder]

Bronson
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=539492423671

 

[ButteMT61]

Cockpit has some interesting jackets in this realm.
https://www.cockpitusa.com/men/textile-jackets

 

[HPA Rep]

The only versions I've seen are the WPG one (affordable, serviceable, not the very most accurate by all accounts, but if you only want it for civilian wear that won't matter so much) and some of the big name Japanese labels (silly, silly money for such a simple jacket).

<snip>

While I agree with you, Edward, that none of the serious Japanese-made versions of the M-421A are cheap, dismissing them (and the price) because they are "simple" styles would also have to logically follow for the A-2 jacket, which by any reasonable evaluation is a simple style. Regardless of the fact the A-2 is made of leather, because as we know well there's overly processed cheap cuts of chrome-tanned leather and then there's veg-tanned, top-grain Italian horse, it is the leather type and components (such as custom-made linings, knit parts, reproduction zippers vs. common yard goods) that, along with fine details, which can define the difference between between a $200 A-2 and a $1, 650.00 example (and the attendant snob appeal that sometimes accompanies the top-end examples). But both M-421A and A-2 are "simple" styles, and I'd confess that even the cheap A-2 examples will do about the same job as those costing many times more.

I recently addressed this same subject in another thread on nylon jackets, where something like an L-2A is admittedly also a "simple" style, yet making it to obsessive BR standards of authenticity that spookily blur the lines between the vintage predecessors involves having multiple fabrics made (as well as zips, etc.) that are more costly than such fabrics as Harris Tweed, which is well-accepted as not coming cheaply, yet a Harris Tweed blazer is seemingly "simple" in design.

When assessing the cost, while certainly a complicated style will cost more than a "simple" one to make, it is far from the single determining factor, which is my point, and being dismissive of any given item based only on the simplicity of the style is to be ignorant of the multitude of variables, thus a simplistic (i. e. deceptively simple or overly simplified) perspective.

 

[Edward]

Bronson
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=539492423671

That's a brand I've heard of before. I've yet to handle any of their stuff in person, but it would be interesting to do so. I'm somewhat surprised it hasn't made its way into the West as of yet, though perhaps they feel that the Western market isn't yet open to the idea of 'higher end' Chinese-made products as of yet.

While I agree with you, Edward, that none of the serious Japanese-made versions of the M-421A are cheap, dismissing them (and the price) because they are "simple" styles would also have to logically follow for the A-2 jacket, which by any reasonable evaluation is a simple style. Regardless of the fact the A-2 is made of leather, because as we know well there's overly processed cheap cuts of chrome-tanned leather and then there's veg-tanned, top-grain Italian horse, it is the leather type and components (such as custom-made linings, knit parts, reproduction zippers vs. common yard goods) that, along with fine details, which can define the difference between between a $200 A-2 and a $1, 650.00 example (and the attendant snob appeal that sometimes accompanies the top-end examples). But both M-421A and A-2 are "simple" styles, and I'd confess that even the cheap A-2 examples will do about the same job as those costing many times more.

To an extent that's true, though I'm not convinced that the esential basics of reproducing these invovlve quite the same level of working with leather - as distinct from cotton, or, as you note, a nylon fabric the exact composition of which took a lot of research. Granted, zips, patterning and such. These details will, of course, matter much more to those seeking an exact reproduction of the orginal piece as distinct from the general design being a convenient, utilitarian option. Horses for courses, as ever.

When assessing the cost, while certainly a complicated style will cost more than a "simple" one to make, it is far from the single determining factor, which is my point, and being dismissive of any given item based only on the simplicity of the style is to be ignorant of the multitude of variables, thus a simplistic (i. e. deceptively simple or overly simplified) perspective.

I would imagine labour costs for something produced in a "first world" economy are what makes a significant chunk of the difference as against what we're used to seeing. To be far, given how subjective these things are, a clearer statement would have been to the effect that some of these are more thanI personally would be prepared to pay for the type of jacket given that there are other, lower-priced alternatives which will do what I require of them.

 

[robrinay]

If you search on eBay for M421 jacket two makers not mentioned here Wtaps and Haley Enterprises come up. In fact If you’re quick you’ll see a 38” Buzz Rickson M421A and an original HL Block in a 36” chest

 

[MeachamLake]

Has anybody bought one of the Haley ones? Their rep just messaged me via eBay with measurements and apparently a size large is 31 inches long?! Surely that can't be right...