LVC, Lee, repro denim quality ?????

[daddy-o]

I got a pretty extensive repro denim collection together with the 1929 LVC, 1933 LVC, 1947 and 1955 LVC?Ǭ¥s as well as a couple of LEE?Ǭ¥s 101 B and Z.
Now everyone goes on about the premium XX redline, blueline denim that LVC
especially use and how much longer it will last. I don?Ǭ¥t really believe that is the case at all. You can always tell quality denim at the cuffs. I always wear turn ups on my jeans and nearly all of the LVC?Ǭ¥s and the Lee?Ǭ¥s have frayed thru where the cuff was. In only a few months, not in years. Now the difference aint in the fact whether they were made in Valencia street because I got a pair made there and it has frayed right through as well. Now and old pair of bucklebacks Levis 541 I have has not frayed through as much in 5 years !!!
So where is the secret ? Do I have to go for japanese repros which are so expensive ? I have my eyes set on a pair of japan Lee Hair on Hide bucklebacks, will they last longer and not have holes where the cuff was after a few months ?

 

[Alan Eardley]

denim wear

Daddy-o,

The secret's in the cotton. They can reproduce the style of the garment, they can reproduce the weave of the cloth even, but they don't use the same cotton as they used to.

Look at all the adverts for cotton clothing. They all stress how soft and comfortable the garment is. So, modern cotton in processed to be soft. Well, soft cotton wears easily. 'Old' denim was ringspun from 'industrial' cotton that was grown and processed to be tough.

 

[BellyTank]

ANY jeans will wear through where they're cuffed, unless you're really careful.
Any of the 'Vintage' repro's are better quality than modern 501s.

The worst experience I've had is with a pair of LVC '47 501s, whic have worn through in the back pocket, crotch and cuff after only a short time. The older Japanese-made repro Levis seem far superior- I have a pair of Japanese 1920s 702x, which are now 10 years old and will not wear out.

The best experience I've had is with Edwins- they wear and wear.

I still have some '20s 201s and 1900/single back pocket jeans which I haven't used yet- I'll wait until the others start wearing out first.

I'm not quite sure of the differentiation you're making between what you have and what you think (or don't think) could be better- is it just the grade(xx) you're talking about..?
The older Levis repros were made in Japan but now they're all made in the US aren't they..? The 'premium' Lees are made by Edwin in Japan, as are the Wranglers- but Lee Europe make 101Bs and zs. I have some Japanese Lees and they last much better than the Lee Europe variety, which I have also had.

B
T

 

[daddy-o]

sure, like you said any jeans will wear out where they are cuffed....
but there is a difference in wearing out a hole in 6 months or 4 years . And
all the LVC?Ǭ¥s I have just seem to wear quicker than I thought they would.

 

[BellyTank]

AS I implied- the US made repros are apparently (from experience)inferior to the old Japanese ones- I don't exactly know why- but it must be the cloth of course.

I think, with the cuffs, it depends also on how often you wear them and how long you go between washes. I'm sure some peoples' cuffs will wear faster depending on how they walk, what type of footwear you wear(abrasion), etc.
As I mentioned, my US made '47 501s havent lasted at all well.

Are all your Vintage' Levis US made?

B
T

 

[daddy-o]

Yeah the LVC?Ǭ¥s are US made. The old 541 bucklebacks were made in Italy in the mid 90?Ǭ¥s and they are still going strong.

 

[pablocham]

Have either of you tried the wrangler blue bell repros available in europe? I really want a pair of those. You might try the modern 13mwz as the 14oz broken twill is completely bulletproof. Also, have you tried the Sugar Cane reproductions? I have the Sugar Cane 45 repro and even though it is a left hand rather than right hand twill the denim seems much stronger and stiffer than that used by lvc.

I think it is possible that because so much of the market in repro and high-end denim is in the "washes" and destroyed looks, the repro makers in europe and the states aren't choosing their denim for durability and long last, but with a view toward predictable wear patterns. Also, I thought that currently all selvage denim originates in either Europe (usually Italy) or Japan, as it is no longer produced here in the U.S. So the fact that the jeans are made in USA seems incidental, as what is really at issue are the properties of the fabric, but I could be wrong about that.

 

[BellyTank]

OK, so maybe '47 501s were made from 'inferior' denim and mine are 'authentic'.
No sarcasm intended- I've lost track of the narrow-loom/selvedge denim saga and where it is now produced. But if it is being produced on the 'original looms back 'in the 'States and it is inferior, then maybe it's the yarn to blame, not the looms..? I still insist that my Japanese Levis are superior.

The Bluebell/Wranglers are really nice- I tried some on at a denim shop in Stockholm. They don't seem as popular as the Lees and Levis- perhaps because the denim has a different colour, quality and no selvedge showing, or perhaps it's that they're comparatively low-waisted. Anyway- they didn't seem very comfortable. The Bluebell jacket is really nice though.

I've tried Sugar Cane jeans but never bought a pair. They are really nice.

I still recommend Edwins- they're a lot cheaper, have a nice finish, weight and depth of colour and they fade very gracefully and beautifully with a lot of contrast- the colour wears in the wear areas and the colour remains for a long time in the non-wear areas- if you catch my drift.

B
T

 

[daddy-o]

BellyTank, you are right. The Wranglers do look nice. However they do seem to have a different fit. Especially the tighter MWZ model I tried on was a bit uncomfortable. They are not as popular with the "rockin?Ǭ¥" community ( I think they are mostly the folks who buy a lot of the repro jeans) because of what you mention (no selvedge etc). I will look out for a good pair of Sugar Cane jeans but not really sure of their fit. I like the looser 1929, 1933 or 1955 LVC fit and dunno what model this would be in a sugarcane ( I love buckleback jeans).

 

[Matt Deckard]

One thing that is sort of off putting is how the buckles are not accurate. this is a pic of one that was altered for a pair of 1933 levis. They put a cross bar between the tines on the repros so there are no sharp edges. This makes it so the buckle does not work.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The buckle on my 506XX '41 jacket doesn't have the spikes. It works okay, though there is inevitable . . .

These modifications are inevitable with the obsession with "safety". You could always snip off the cross bar and sharpen the spikes. Wire cutters and a bit 'o filing is all it'd take.

bk

 

[MudInYerEye]

Regarding Lee Japan. I was just looking at the new FREE AND EASY magazine and there are now no less than five Japanese companies who have liscensed the H.D.Lee brand name.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Well who makes the best Lee Jeans -- I'm sure is on the minds of many Japanese. I myself have one pair of jeans. It's hard unwashed denim and still needs the buckle altered.

... I never wear cowboy pants so buying the jeans was ... well still is an oddity on my part. Where will I wear them?

 

[JMADSENK]

Real McCoy's makes the best Lee's.

http://store.yahoo.co.jp/threeeight/rmc-mp6103.html
http://store.yahoo.co.jp/threeeight/rmc-mj6133.html

These have a real nice patch:
http://store.yahoo.co.jp/threeeight/lee39a1c7.html

 

[MudInYerEye]

JMADSENK, the bottom link (with the hair-on-hide patch) features Lee's made by Edwin not McCoy's.

 

[JMADSENK]

Yes, that's why they were seperated from the top two.