Lost manners

[Flying Scotsman]

Years ago, I was in Dallas and walked into a bar with (gasp) a ball cap on. The bartender politely said, "Sir, you need to take off your hat inside here." I noticed that most places I went to had a similar etiquette "rule" (and I should have known to do so, anyway). But it struck me as particularly "Texan" or "southern", in that just about everyplace else in the country I'd been, no such rule was in evidence.

This week, I'm in San Antonio...guess nobody cares anymore about ball caps being worn indoors.

Kind of shame. It was one of the few things I liked about Texas

 

[akaBruno]

Hell, I go to the bar to show off my hat.

When Momma says, "Take it off," at the dinner table. Yea.

 

[TaxMan1]

You're lucky to see the "ball cap" crowd taking it off for the National Anthem.....

 

[Pilgrim]

Years ago, that was probably the fact.

Without implying criticism, I'll share the observation that when I was at Texas A&M (1985-98), I'd ask people who had just arrived in Texas "How far back in history did you move when you came here?"

The average answer was "20 years". Hmmm.

The point - some of the customs that were present elsewhere in the US in 1965 were still present in that community in Texas when I moved there in 1985. By 1998 they'd moved up to 1978. Many of these customs were pleasant and polite, although a few were habit patterns that were no longer appropriate.

But today, even those parts of the US that tend to hang onto customs longer than others have moved along - hence, I suspect, the change in hat customs you observed.

But don't walk into the Memorial Student Center at Texas A&M while wearing a hat. It is not done, and if done, assistance in removing the hat will be provided.

 

[Mark George]

A few places are still civilized

I attended a wedding in Stillwater, Oklahoma last weekend, and stayed at the Atherton Hotel on the Oklahoma State University campus. The restaurant in the hotel is called The Ranchers Club, and has a plaque mounted prominently at the entrance which instructs the patrons to remove their hats upon entering. It was nice to see, but a little discouraging since it served as evidence that etiquette has deteriorated to the point that such a plaque is necessary.

I highly recommend both the hotel and the restaurant. Interestingly, there is a hat collection prominently displayed in the foyer, all of which were donated by local (and well-heeled) rancher benefactors.

Mark

 

[Mojave Jack]

It's not lost on most military posts, and is strictly enforced at any of our facilities, military and civilian alike. Unfortunately, most do not recognize the distinction between military protocol and civlian etiquette.

 

[akaBruno]

Where the hell did it come from anyway?

Forgive me but I drink at a antique bar that's sure to have some Wild Bill DNA on it. So, do ya really think that they made Wild Bill remove his hat?

Maybe I wear a hat to keep my long hair from falling in my face, or my soup? And that's the truth.

I'm sorry, but I'll wear my damn hat anywhere and anytime I damn please.

etiquette? ETIQUETTE? I don't know if we'll win another game. ETIQUETTE?



ps. I like wearing white in the winter... helps me blend in w/ the surroundings.

 

[Elaina]

I grew up in Oklahoma and Texas, and the plaques were in evidence as long as I can remember (and it's been a few decades.)

*shrug*I make my son remove his hat, but my husband doesn't (and causes a lot of fights). He's one more time of doing it before the hats come missing. My preference, hats are not to be worn indoors. You feel differently, not my personal problem.

 

[Mark George]

Wild Bill lived (and lost) his life in a relatively brutish and undignified manner.

The purpose of rules in society is to encourage civilized behavior, and to work against the tendency for humans to descend into depravity and brutality. One way to do this is to show respect to others through simple gestures.

It seems that these days, some people are not willing to afford the same respect to others that they demand be afforded to themselves.

I don't know why it is, but when I remove my hat when a women enters an elevator with me, she usually reacts as though I paid her a high compliment. That speaks volumes.

Just how I was raised,

Mark

 

[akaBruno]

Let me ask this...

Who am I offending by not removing my hat?

I'm offended by someone asking me to remove my hat.

If it were some beautiful lady asking me to remove my pants...

well... that's a different story.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Bruno, I'm trying to read where someone here has offended you in this post & I'll be darned if I can see where your aggressive attitude and swearing would be warranted. Is this a particularly sensative "hot button" for you or are you just rude by nature?

 

[patrick1987]

That is what gives hatwearers a bad reputation

If I ever had to be asked to remove my hat, be it bucket, baseball, Panama, fedora, top, sombrero, stocking or tricorner, I would be mortified I hadn't already done so. My hair is long but I manage to keep it out of whatever delicious soup I am served.

 

[Dan G]

I don't wear one indoors. I don't care if others are wearing them indoors. Its about courtesy.
The thing better be off during the National Anthem though. Any one of the allies National Anthem for that matter. Those Guys and Gals that died to give the Freedom we enjoy today earn the respect by default. Its about being courteous.

 

[RedPop4]

The President of the university asked that we begin tightening up on this, as well, almost two years ago, now. We have signs posted on the doors to the library, and, sadly, I a reference librarian, have to play etiquette police as well. I think it's a good rule. As has been stated, it's a sign of respect, much like a thank you or an excuse me. I work at a historically black, Catholic university, and many of these students regard their ball caps, often worn to match an entire outfit, as we do our fedoras. Many take Bruno's lead and give a lot of attitude when asked to.

As has been said, small gestures like this are what seperate us from the brutes and bullies of the world who only seem to care about themselves and their own designs and desires.

Many others do it, and are genuinely mortified when they forget. I, on the other hand enter the building and I leave my hat on until I get in my office, put down my knapsack and lunch box. THEN I remove it and place it on its spot on the shelf.

 

[AdmiralTofu]

I have mixed feelings about many gestures of etiquette, personally -- not least of all, those surrounding hats. I follow them, but really, it's mostly out of a feeling of obligation: lest I be looked at as rude or uncouth. I'm shy and withdrawn enough without worrying about if somebody thinks I'm a jerk. But even as I follow them, I find myself second-guessing them, especially the ones concerning behaviors around members of the opposite sex. For example: I find that I often have to force myself to not tip my hat to a man just as I would to a woman -- knowing that some men might take offense to it. To me, it's just being friendly to everybody, regardless of gender.

I guess the thing with me is that I see being just plain friendly and conducting oneself pleasantly and with decorum at all times, as a far grander gesture than any single centuries-old ritual.

Thoughts?

-Tofu

 

[Frederick Chook]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to say pffft. Especially in someplace like a pub or a library (where you need your hands free anyway, for drinking, and carrying big piles of books) - sure, in a more intimate environment like a restaurant or someone's house, a hat could get in the way of discussion and expression, that's different. But we're not talking places of worship or anything here, we're talking boring public buildings that hundreds of anonymous people pass through every day. Which is ruder, not removing an arbitrary garment to do so, or singling out a stranger and treating them like they're sub-human and not protected by usual rules of behaviour because they don't follow one minor custom?

(I'm going to go out on an even more dangerous limb and say I would remove my hat for a funeral, I wouldn't remove it or the national anthem. Nationalism is a many-faced beast - those elements of it I do agree with aren't the elements manifested in a government-mandated and rather boring song. And sure, I owe my current quality of life in part to the military, but equally much if not more so to generations of everyone from public workers to union members to judges who contributed to setting up the system as it now exists.)

 

[Elaina]

Redpop, that's also (under etiquette rules) perfectly acceptable to keep a hat on until you're at work. Yes, you're in a building, but it's one of those weird things that falls through a crack.

I'm going to be offensive for a second here, but by not removing the hat and showing signs of respect during the anthem, you're insulting every man and woman that served in the military. To me, that's akin to saying all the folks that gave something up (their life, time, family, whatever) did so in vain. I may disagree with my government (and I frequently do) but without folks that died to give me the right to be an outspoken shrew, I'd of had my tongue cut out a long time ago, and for that, I'm eternally grateful that the veterans have done their duty, and a moment of inconvenience is a small price to pay for that (for the record, I may not HAVE to remove my hat under social dictates due to my sex, I choose to).

 

[Matt Deckard]

When it comes to hat ettiquette, today it's up to the wearer. I wrote some guidelines in the last issue of Classic Style. Bottom Line as a Native Texican I learned that in many cases cowboy hats are taken off a the church and the barber shop and rarely anywhere else.

As a hat wearer interested in customs, I take my hat off primarily indoors unless in a place of transit or shopping.

 

[Spitfire]

Redpop, that's also (under etiquette rules) perfectly acceptable to keep a hat on until you're at work. Yes, you're in a building, but it's one of those weird things that falls through a crack.

I'm going to be offensive for a second here, but by not removing the hat and showing signs of respect during the anthem, you're insulting every man and woman that served in the military. To me, that's akin to saying all the folks that gave something up (their life, time, family, whatever) did so in vain. I may disagree with my government (and I frequently do) but without folks that died to give me the right to be an outspoken shrew, I'd of had my tongue cut out a long time ago, and for that, I'm eternally grateful that the veterans have done their duty, and a moment of inconvenience is a small price to pay for that (for the record, I may not HAVE to remove my hat under social dictates due to my sex, I choose to).

Maybe it is so in US. But the national anthem is in no way connected to the armed forces or those who served here in Denmark. It is everybodys song.
If it is anything, it's connected to soccermatches.
All stand up - some take of their crazy soccerfanhats and caps - some doesn't. But everybody is singing. Loud!!!!

 

[Travis]

I will wear my hat at work, home, or inside any other building if I'm on my way out the door. Other than that, I see no reason why the simple act of taking a hat off should be such an inconvenience that it must be sacrificed in exchange for ill manners. Taking off hats indoors, unfortunately, is not the only piece of common etiquette that's gone out the window for most people.