Looking for a new Cafe Racer, what am I missing?

[Carrie @ Thurston Bros.]

Just a quick note about the construction of Aero and Vanson jackets with regard to zippers and motorcycle safety. We have a lot of customers who ride in both jacket brands (and we’ve repaired quite a few crashed Aero and Vanson jackets over the years) and both brands hold up incredibly well in crashes, despite having different sizes and brands of zippers. The main cause of a zipper failure in a motorcycle crash is the metal parts being ripped off (zipper pull or teeth) in a slide. The construction of the jacket helps to protect zipper parts. Aero’s vintage construction technique works well to protect the zipper--Aero installs the zippers such that the leather covers most of the metal parts (save the very end of the pull). Additionally, all of Aero’s external seams (even the front zipper!) have a hidden internal seam that holds even when the exterior seam has been compromised. Race suits use the same construction—except that most race suits use plastic coil YKK zippers (#8 front, #5 sleeves) due to plastic zippers being very flexible and corrosion-resistant.

Zippers can come apart (any size, any material) due to improper garment sizing (typical race suit issue—gain a few pounds and your front zipper doesn’t hold!), faulty sliders (defect or worn out), worn out teeth (this is very rare, even on vintage jackets) or user error (pin not properly seated in box). These issues will arise as soon as the wearer zips up their jacket or suit…almost never in a crash!

Of course, the best idea is to never crash... …

 

[Justhandguns]

There is a huge difference between racing MotoGP with nothing but Tarmac and sand and human-designed barriers and streets.
The road is not as forgiving. But believe it - those track suits are tough as hell, just very polished and streamlined fit.
Most if the time, those guys are sliding in a fairly controlled fashion with no rocks, rubbish, and other dangers that one faces on the street.
Like I said, seams are bad and so are thin hides. You also don't want a jacket to fit loosely.
I wear heavy leather zipped 365 days a year. Even in 105° SoCal heat. Which happens to be the time of year I went down, twice. Gear saved me from skin grafts and years of pain. A little sweat is a decent trade off.
You may want to look at perforated leather, which is what I got in my last vanson and hein gerrick jackets.

Absolutely agree. Thicker, heavy weight leathers also don't guarantee more durability of the jackets. I believe some of us here are a bit addicted to (and obsessed with) several terms, Horse is one, heavy weight hide is second.

 

[pawineguy]

Just a quick note about the construction of Aero and Vanson jackets with regard to zippers and motorcycle safety. We have a lot of customers who ride in both jacket brands (and we’ve repaired quite a few crashed Aero and Vanson jackets over the years) and both brands hold up incredibly well in crashes, despite having different sizes and brands of zippers. The main cause of a zipper failure in a motorcycle crash is the metal parts being ripped off (zipper pull or teeth) in a slide. The construction of the jacket helps to protect zipper parts. Aero’s vintage construction technique works well to protect the zipper--Aero installs the zippers such that the leather covers most of the metal parts (save the very end of the pull). Additionally, all of Aero’s external seams (even the front zipper!) have a hidden internal seam that holds even when the exterior seam has been compromised. Race suits use the same construction—except that most race suits use plastic coil YKK zippers (#8 front, #5 sleeves) due to plastic zippers being very flexible and corrosion-resistant.

Zippers can come apart (any size, any material) due to improper garment sizing (typical race suit issue—gain a few pounds and your front zipper doesn’t hold!), faulty sliders (defect or worn out), worn out teeth (this is very rare, even on vintage jackets) or user error (pin not properly seated in box). These issues will arise as soon as the wearer zips up their jacket or suit…almost never in a crash!

Of course, the best idea is to never crash... …

Carrie, thanks for chiming in, greatly appreciated and as always I've learned something from you. And of course, I've never had any doubts about riding in Vanson jackets, but the Aero information is good to know.

 

[Sloan1874]

Tumbled FQHH is a nice balance of heft and flexibility.

 

[pawineguy]

Tumbled FQHH is a nice balance of heft and flexibility.

If I get this jacket from Aero that's exactly what I'd order.

 

[pawineguy]

There is a huge difference between racing MotoGP with nothing but Tarmac and sand and human-designed barriers and streets.
The road is not as forgiving. But believe it - those track suits are tough as hell, just very polished and streamlined fit.
Most if the time, those guys are sliding in a fairly controlled fashion with no rocks, rubbish, and other dangers that one faces on the street.
Like I said, seams are bad and so are thin hides. You also don't want a jacket to fit loosely.
I wear heavy leather zipped 365 days a year. Even in 105° SoCal heat. Which happens to be the time of year I went down, twice. Gear saved me from skin grafts and years of pain. A little sweat is a decent trade off.
You may want to look at perforated leather, which is what I got in my last vanson and hein gerrick jackets.

Thanks for your insight. When it's really hot I ride in an armored Klim jacket that's extremely ventilated. I agree with you about thick hides. I've only taken one minor spill in my life, but I just feel more secure when I'm wearing something substantial, and I've seen enough injuries that I don't want to take any chances. Totally agree about fit, I have one jacket that's larger than others for when I ride in really cold weather, but I don't ever wear it without those layers because it just doesn't feel secure when it's loose on me. If it rides up when you hit the ground your stomach or back could get pretty beat up.

 

[ProteinNerd]

If I were in your position, I'd be tempted to see if Aero would add shoulder gussets or at a push a full action back to a Board Racer for the added flexibility in the riding position.

Tumbled FQHH and an armoured shirt underneath that would be a good bike jacket imo.

 

[navetsea]

I would prefer small shoulder gusset than full action back,

so far in few crashes I've ever had in the past, I didn't slide enough if anything to prove any theories (stopped right away in a wet pothole and the other time the bike fell on me , and stopped right on the spot), but just by its design full action back, with its huge expansion fold on the back has potential to drag the asphalt more rather than slide smoothly...just my unproven guess.

 

[dan_t]

If I were in your position, I'd be tempted to see if Aero would add shoulder gussets or at a push a full action back to a Board Racer for the added flexibility in the riding position.

Tumbled FQHH and an armoured shirt underneath that would be a good bike jacket imo.

+1; that sounds like a great combo.

 

[Sloan1874]

Does the BR's arm positioning and general close fit not make gussets or an action unnecessary? I don't ride, but I've never felt that it was had a particularly restricted range of movement.
That said, if I was going with some sort of addition to the back, I'd go shoulder gussets to minimise any additional weight and not spoil the overall sleek look of the jacket.

 

[Monitor]

Denny told me they won't fit Shoulder gussets to BR.

 

[pawineguy]

Does the BR's arm positioning and general close fit not make gussets or an action unnecessary? I don't ride, but I've never felt that it was had a particularly restricted range of movement.
That said, if I was going with some sort of addition to the back, I'd go shoulder gussets to minimise any additional weight and not spoil the overall sleek look of the jacket.

I'm not a fan of the full action back and greatly prefer shoulder gussets. I have ridden comfortably with the Board Racer a few times, and the pre-curve of the arms really does help greatly when riding.

 

[Sloan1874]

Yeah, I had the BR on in the car today and at no point did I feel restricted.

 

[Grayland]

I like this one:

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[Theodoros]

Thank you very much. If you are interested I can show you details and new jackets that I presented in Berlin before 10 days.

 

[ykurtz]

If you're wearing an armored shirt already I recommend a kangaroo cafe racer. When worn sans armor it's very light and great for casual wear. But on the bike, it has much better abrasion protection than cow and twice as good as goat. Just a question of what jacket attributes matter the most to you.

 

[Seb Lucas]

ykurtz not disagreeing but what research informs your claim?

 

[navetsea]

Kangaroo hide vs Cowhide? Which should I choose?

Kangaroo hide is both lighter and more elastic than cowhide, which allows for a thinner and more flexible construction when used in a racing suit. The weight reduction is substantial and allows riders to be much more comfortable and increases rider mobility. The downside to Kangaroo is while it is more protective in any single event, the thin-ness of the hide means that it will be less durable over time.

The decision to go with Kangaroo vs Cowhide depends on how you plan to ride your motorcycle. If you are obsessive about shaving every last ounce and want the best performance on the track, Kangaroo is your drug of choice. If you are an occasional track-day rider that wants to get the most longevity out of your purchase, Cowhide will be your best friend for longer. With this said, check your local track regulations first as some racing organizations (particularly the Land Speed Record variety) do not approve the use of Kangaroo.

that is what Dainese's opinion about moo vs roo

 

[Mickey Bowtie]

Rumor has it Vanson makes Jacket just for your needs: the AR3, an armoured variant of the AR2, based on the homebrew modifications Wes from rideapart.com used (https://rideapart.com/articles/best-motorcycle-leather-jackets-700?page=2).

It exists on Vanons' site (http://www.vansonleathers.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=ar3) but no text or image is to be found... curious.

Living in Europe I shunned from the hunt for such an elusive garment, but maybe someone can shed some light on this issue.

EDIT: interestingly enough, it is available in Germany, though quite expensive. Some pictures as well: http://www.24helmets.de/VANSON-Lederjacke-Motorrad-schwarz-AR3-mit-Protektoren

 

[pawineguy]

ykurtz not disagreeing but what research informs your claim?

Stephens, L.J. (1987). "Stratigraphic analysis of kangaroo leather". Journal of the American Leather Chemists Association 82

Kangaroo leather is unique in its structure, totally different than horse or cow, which obviously makes sense as they are such a different animal. The main difference is that all of the fibers are arranged neatly in one direction (parallel) as opposed to fibers running in multiple directions, which creates weak points. What this also allows is for Kangaroo to be skivved down without losing much of its strength. I believe the numbers aren't even close, as Ykurtz states, Kangaroo is substantially stronger.