Looking for a Natal Leather jacket

[ljs1960]

Hi.
Please I'm looking for a Natal leather jacket 44" (maybe 42 or 46 too).
Please could you help me?
Thanks a lot, best.

 

[Monitor]

Hi.
Please I'm looking for a Natal leather jacket 44" (maybe 42 or 46 too).
Please could you help me?
Thanks a lot, best.

Hi,

Which model are you looking for? I'm not sure but I think @Guppy still hasn't sold his Natal cafe racer.

 

[ljs1960]

Hi,

Which model are you looking for? I'm not sure but I think @Guppy still hasn't sold his Natal cafe racer.

Hi, thanks.
I'd like a brown one, but I'm not sure that Natal brown leather jackets are available...
In black color, I prefer a Perfecto style one.

 

[Guppy]

I have a brown Natel Cafe Racer in size 44, and it's one of my very favorites, so not for sale.


I have a couple of black ones in size 42 and 44, and I don't need them all, so I might sell one, but not the crosszip.

I did sell the size 40 that was my first. It was the nicest, but just slightly to small on me when I was at 185 lbs. The difference between 40 and 44 is remarkably minute.

 

[Monitor]

@ljs1960 , have you looked into Walter Dyer? I am pretty sure both Natal and vtg. Walter Dyer jackets were made by the same manufacturer, from the same material. I've handled both, you could switch the tags and wouldn't know the difference. In any case, couple of links that might interest you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-80...E-JACKET-HEAVYWEIGHT-RACER-SZ-40/372411575954
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leather-Jacket-Walter-Dyer/153184894819
https://www.ebay.de/itm/WALTER-DYER-Cafe-Racer-Biker-Motorrad-Harley-Lederjacke-48-M-/253709556374
https://www.ebay.de/itm/WALTER-DYER...-Harley-Leather-Lederjacke-38-M-/253313455769

 

[Guppy]

@ljs1960 , have you looked into Walter Dyer? I am pretty sure both Natal and vtg. Walter Dyer jackets were made by the same manufacturer, from the same material. I've handled both, you could switch the tags and wouldn't know the difference. In any case, couple of links that might interest you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-80...E-JACKET-HEAVYWEIGHT-RACER-SZ-40/372411575954
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leather-Jacket-Walter-Dyer/153184894819
https://www.ebay.de/itm/WALTER-DYER-Cafe-Racer-Biker-Motorrad-Harley-Lederjacke-48-M-/253709556374
https://www.ebay.de/itm/WALTER-DYER...-Harley-Leather-Lederjacke-38-M-/253313455769

Oh wow, that brown WD crosszip. I'm so glad it's too small.

 

[ljs1960]

Oh wow, that brown WD crosszip. I'm so glad it's too small.

Thank you so much, Guppy, for your precious help.

 

[Guppy]

Thank you so much, Guppy, for your precious help.

I haven't really done much of anything. If you're interested in more info about the jacket's I have, send me a pm. I can tell you measurements, pictures, anything else you want to know.

 

[ljs1960]

I haven't really done much of anything. If you're interested in more info about the jacket's I have, send me a pm. I can tell you measurements, pictures, anything else you want to know.

Guppy, unfortunately I have a real obsession for very, very heavyweight leather jackets.
To me, more heavyweight is better.
I think that the heaviest jackets I own at the moment are two LW 4,5 oz. horsehide.
They are very hard to break in.
I've read on Fedora that the Natal Leather jacket is maybe the heaviest jacket available on the collectors' market.
In your opinion Walter Dyer jackets (please excuse me, I didn't know this brand until today) are heavyweight in the same way of Natal?
Which of the two do you prefer?
Have your other suggestions to me about very heavyweight ones?
Thanks, Giorgio

 

[Guppy]

Guppy, unfortunately I have a real obsession for very, very heavyweight leather jackets.
To me, more heavyweight is better.
I think that the heaviest jackets I own at the moment are two LW 4,5 oz. horsehide.
They are very hard to break in.
I've read on Fedora that the Natal Leather jacket is maybe the heaviest jacket available on the collectors' market.
In your opinion Walter Dyer jackets (please excuse me, I didn't know this brand until today) are heavyweight in the same way of Natal?
Which of the two do you prefer?
Have your other suggestions to me about very heavyweight ones?
Thanks, Giorgio

I've had the opportunity to handle both Walter Dyer and Natal/Natel goods, and as @Monitor said, they're virtually indistinguishable. I have to say that, of mine, I do favor the Natal/Natel labeled ones slightly. That could be just luck of the draw, or it could be a perception influenced by the fact that Natal/Natel isn't around anymore, and that gives their jackets more mystique.

From what I have gathered, current Walter Dyer jackets aren't made form this super heavy leather that I love, and of the 3-4 of each maker that I've handled, I would have to say that the Nat?l jackets had a slight edge in terms of how the leather felt -- harder hand, stiffer, and less spongy.

Of course, I can't say if that holds true across every example from either label. I wish I knew what the source of the leather was, and what years it was available, or anything at all really about Natal/Natel the company. When I wrote to Walter Dyer a few months ago, they claimed to have no knowledge about Nat?l, and didn't seem to have a sense of history or importance about their products.

Comparing these to other heavy leather jacket makers, I like this leather as well as, if not better than, the heaviest comp weight Vanson leather I've handled, and the one Lost Worlds jacket I have. It's comparable to my vintage Cal Leather jackets, but far more affordable than a vintage Cal in any condition, let alone good condition. And I'd say it's stiffer than the heavy leather that Langlitz used until fairly recently (I understand they no longer offer heavyweight cow, sadly.)

When I bought my first Natal, it was a true steal, about $100 + shipping, and you can still sometimes find them on eBay for very reasonable prices, but $150-$300-$375 is more the case now. When I sold mine, I priced it what I felt it was worth (and what it would take for me to willingly part with it - $500) and I made some money when it finally sold, but now sellers seem to think these are actually worth something, and are charging more. Probably because mine went unsold for about 2 years, and when others listed theirs, they looked to see what they were going for, saw mine, and decided that they could also sell theirs for about the same price. Except for women's Nat?l jackets, which can still be found for <$100(!) And of course Walter Dyer jackets don't seem to have been affected by the bump to Natal/Natel pricing.

So if you're cheap and want something very good, Walter Dyer would seem to be where to look, and if you think that a Nat?l jacket may have a bit of a quality edge, and you are willing to pay a slight premium for it, they're fantastic. WD also seem to be a bit more common, and tend to have a bit more customization, such as different collars and side laces.

 

[ljs1960]

I've had the opportunity to handle both Walter Dyer and Natal/Natel goods, and as @Monitor said, they're virtually indistinguishable. I have to say that, of mine, I do favor the Natal/Natel labeled ones slightly. That could be just luck of the draw, or it could be a perception influenced by the fact that Natal/Natel isn't around anymore, and that gives their jackets more mystique.

From what I have gathered, current Walter Dyer jackets aren't made form this super heavy leather that I love, and of the 3-4 of each maker that I've handled, I would have to say that the Nat?l jackets had a slight edge in terms of how the leather felt -- harder hand, stiffer, and less spongy.

Of course, I can't say if that holds true across every example from either label. I wish I knew what the source of the leather was, and what years it was available, or anything at all really about Natal/Natel the company. When I wrote to Walter Dyer a few months ago, they claimed to have no knowledge about Nat?l, and didn't seem to have a sense of history or importance about their products.

Comparing these to other heavy leather jacket makers, I like this leather as well as, if not better than, the heaviest comp weight Vanson leather I've handled, and the one Lost Worlds jacket I have. It's comparable to my vintage Cal Leather jackets, but far more affordable than a vintage Cal in any condition, let alone good condition. And I'd say it's stiffer than the heavy leather that Langlitz used until fairly recently (I understand they no longer offer heavyweight cow, sadly.)

When I bought my first Natal, it was a true steal, about $100 + shipping, and you can still sometimes find them on eBay for very reasonable prices, but $150-$300-$375 is more the case now. When I sold mine, I priced it what I felt it was worth (and what it would take for me to willingly part with it - $500) and I made some money when it finally sold, but now sellers seem to think these are actually worth something, and are charging more. Probably because mine went unsold for about 2 years, and when others listed theirs, they looked to see what they were going for, saw mine, and decided that they could also sell theirs for about the same price. Except for women's Nat?l jackets, which can still be found for <$100(!) And of course Walter Dyer jackets don't seem to have been affected by the bump to Natal/Natel pricing.

So if you're cheap and want something very good, Walter Dyer would seem to be where to look, and if you think that a Nat?l jacket may have a bit of a quality edge, and you are willing to pay a slight premium for it, they're fantastic. WD also seem to be a bit more common, and tend to have a bit more customization, such as different collars and side laces.

Thank you, Guppy.
You was very "esaustivo" (sorry I don't know the English translation), nothing of your deep knowledge was lost.
More than 40 years ago, my old teacher at Liceo Classico ever said "Rem tene, verba sequentur".
I can confirm that Langlitz doesn't use heavyweight leather more.
I order the last year one of the last Cascade in brown heavyweight.n
After your words, I'd go on looking for a Natal Leather jacket.
I call it "mystique", I prefer (more) "esoteric".
But if I'd find a very heavyweight Walter Dyer, at a reasonable and good price, I'll get it.
Does it run small?
Thank you very much.
Here, at my home, is hard to find and understand something about the stunning American made leather motorcycle jackets that don't call Schott or (less) Vanson.
Last question: if you have to tell me your most favourite brand, your first choice, or your favourite jacket, which name you'll tell me?

 

[Guppy]

I wouldn't say that they run small, but they DO run snug. And I don't note that great a difference between 40, 42, 44... it's a very subtle difference, and I can wear all three sizes and feel like they are good fit, although when I was heavier (I've lost 20 lbs in the last year) I found the 40 a bit too tight for me, although I could zip up. The 42 and 44 are a bit more generous, but nearly the same size.

Favorite brand is not something I can tell you. Each has its appeal, and they are different enough that it's tough to pick a favorite.

I can't even pick a favorite jacket, which is why I have so many in my closets. I can go back and forth endlessly. These are the makers I like best, but I can't rank them.

• Aero. Great leather, classic vintage styles, civilian, military, and motorcycle, a very wide variety of styles, lots of customization options, great customer service.
• Thedi. Cooler/edgier in style, classic yet contemporary. Beautiful leather. The styles that I like, I really, really like, and the ones I don't care for, well they don't concern me. Theodoros is a master craftsman and an artist, and very easy to deal with directly.
• Langlitz. Fewer styles, true motorcycle gear, timeless, bespoke, top customer service.
• Natel/Natal. Super heavy, limited styles, limited availability, fantastic value if you can find a good one. Objectively probably not the equal of Lost Worlds or Cal Leather, but yet I like mine as well or better than those makers, so this is my bias showing.
• Lost Worlds. If you can get past Stu's marketing silliness, he makes a good product. I guess it takes a good decade or so to really break them in. My one LW jacket was bought secondhand from @lina a couple years ago, and I really like it. I keep watching for a good used one that I can afford and fit into, but that's all the experience I have with this brand.
• Vanson. Kindof hit or miss. Some of the styles are not my favorite, but of their jackets that I have and have kept, I really like. They are some of the most functional riding jackets for real motorcycle gear. Fit and quality isn't at the same level as Langlitz, but you can go custom or if you're lucky you may find one that fits very well. Downside seems to be that their very heavy "comp weight" leather seems to be a thing of the past, having been replaced by something not as thick.
• Cal Leather. About the same as Langlitz, really, but the leather tends to be heavier and stiffer (which ain't a bad thing!), and the customer service, well it'd be about impossible to top Langlitz there, but I don't have enough data to evaluate. Great vintage police jackets, but usually very expensive even secondhand, and the condition on the used jackets is often thrashed.
• ELMC/Eastman. My one ELMC jacket, a Windward, is fantastic and one of my favorites. I have no experience with their A2 or bomber jackets, but they consistently get high praise here, which is good enough for me.
• Schott. Most Schott jackets are too thin for my taste, and what they sell these days are overpriced to me. They tend to be more fashion than function, as far as motorcycle gear goes, they're really more rock and roll. Of course, there's a difference between old and new. Occasionally I've found one that I really like, though. My Schott x Context CX113 is a great example.
• Levis. Very good quality at a lower price point, but not thick or heavy, unless you're talking an Aero LVC collaboration.

Brands I've never owned, but like and wouldn't mind having:

• Taubers
• Himel
• Good Wear
• Freewheelers

 

[Camaro1967]

This brand is starting to develop some kind of cult following. I saw a few threads on here before where folks were hyping them up and they look like nice affordable jackets. But the heavyweight part, I wonder if this is a subjective thing for some, like the way it makes someone feel, or if its literally heavyweight.

I came close to picking up a black Natal (not Natel) 46 CR scooter jacket but when I found out about the weight, about 5lbs, to me, that wasn't really "heavy" enough. A couple other listings I contacted the owner and most are in that 4-5lbs range. My LW 3.25oz J-100 is a 46 and that is easily 5+lbs, so I was thinking Natal, if it does have anything heavier, must really be on a case by case basis.

Anyway, great bang for the buck, but finding CR type jackets in the 5+ lbs range doesnt seem too common. Maybe if you're a size 50?

 

[Guppy]

This brand is starting to develop some kind of cult following.

That's probably entirely my fault (and @Monitor's)...

I saw a few threads on here before where folks were hyping them up and they look like nice affordable jackets. But the heavyweight part, I wonder if this is a subjective thing for some, like the way it makes someone feel, or if its literally heavyweight.

It's literally heavyweight. Seriously thick. My cross-zip weighs about 8+ lbs. The cafe style jackets are slightly less heavy, due to being a single breasted design without a big collar, but are still very thick. I think mine weigh 5-6 lbs.[/QUOTE]

 

[Guppy]

Here's photos of my black 44... Weight is 6.0 lbs.

 

[Camaro1967]

Looks nice. I'm always on the hunt for a heavyweight CR, but I just can't seem to find any 4+oz stuff. I'm sure with lighter weight synthetics available and armor, nobody really wants a heavy jacket like that anymore. But I'd love to grab something in the 8+lbs range if that even exists. Only thing I have that comes close is my LW Anj-4 but I can't imagine anything like that as a CR.

 

[ljs1960]

Here's photos of my black 44... Weight is 6.0 lbs.

Very stunning and really heavyweight Natal CR jacket!
You're a lucky man...

 

[ljs1960]

I wouldn't say that they run small, but they DO run snug. And I don't note that great a difference between 40, 42, 44... it's a very subtle difference, and I can wear all three sizes and feel like they are good fit, although when I was heavier (I've lost 20 lbs in the last year) I found the 40 a bit too tight for me, although I could zip up. The 42 and 44 are a bit more generous, but nearly the same size.

Favorite brand is not something I can tell you. Each has its appeal, and they are different enough that it's tough to pick a favorite.

I can't even pick a favorite jacket, which is why I have so many in my closets. I can go back and forth endlessly. These are the makers I like best, but I can't rank them.

• Aero. Great leather, classic vintage styles, civilian, military, and motorcycle, a very wide variety of styles, lots of customization options, great customer service.
• Thedi. Cooler/edgier in style, classic yet contemporary. Beautiful leather. The styles that I like, I really, really like, and the ones I don't care for, well they don't concern me. Theodoros is a master craftsman and an artist, and very easy to deal with directly.
• Langlitz. Fewer styles, true motorcycle gear, timeless, bespoke, top customer service.
• Natel/Natal. Super heavy, limited styles, limited availability, fantastic value if you can find a good one. Objectively probably not the equal of Lost Worlds or Cal Leather, but this is my bias showing.
• Lost Worlds. If you can get past Stu's marketing silliness, he makes a good product. I guess it takes a good decade or so to really break them in. My one LW jacket was bought secondhand from @lina a couple years ago, and I really like it. I keep watching for a good used one that I can afford and fit into, but that's all the experience I have with this brand.
• Vanson. Kindof hit or miss. Some of the styles are not my favorite, but of their jackets that I have and have kept, I really like. They are some of the most functional riding jackets for real motorcycle gear. Fit and quality isn't at the same level as Langlitz, but you can go custom or if you're lucky you may find one that fits very well. Downside seems to be that their very heavy "comp weight" leather seems to be a thing of the past, having been replaced by something not as thick.
• Cal Leather. About the same as Langlitz, really, but the leather tends to be heavier and stiffer (which ain't a bad thing!), and the customer service, well it'd be about impossible to top Langlitz there, but I don't have enough data to evaluate. Great vintage police jackets, but usually very expensive even secondhand, and the condition on the used jackets is often thrashed.
• ELMC/Eastman. My one ELMC jacket, a Windward, is fantastic and one of my favorites. I have no experience with their A2 or bomber jackets, but they consistently get high praise here, which is good enough for me.
• Schott. Most Schott jackets are too thin for my taste, and what they sell these days are overpriced to me. They tend to be more fashion than function, as far as motorcycle gear goes, they're really more rock and roll. Of course, there's a difference between old and new. Occasionally I've found one that I really like, though. My Schott x Context CX113 is a great example.
• Levis. Very good quality at a lower price point, but not thick or heavy, unless you're talking an Aero LVC collaboration.

Brands I've never owned, but like and wouldn't mind having:

• Taubers
• Himel
• Good Wear
• Freewheelers

It's not easy dealing with Lost Worlds owner Stuart.
After my first LW jacket purchase, things got better with Stuart.
Very good jackets, no compromise.
Same feeling about Langlitz.
About Aero, my personal opinion is that main zip is always too small and it make difficult to zip up them. To me, too many styles.
I'll be very happy if you could tell me more about Cal Leather.
I was not able to find any notice about it.
As I said, in Italy people know Schott and Vanson.
No more.
I looked for Cal Leather on Ebay, very few items and very expensive too.
Is there a Cal Leather style that you could suggest me, an "archetipo" or most rappresentative Cal Leather style jacket?

 

[ljs1960]

I wouldn't say that they run small, but they DO run snug. And I don't note that great a difference between 40, 42, 44... it's a very subtle difference, and I can wear all three sizes and feel like they are good fit, although when I was heavier (I've lost 20 lbs in the last year) I found the 40 a bit too tight for me, although I could zip up. The 42 and 44 are a bit more generous, but nearly the same size.

Favorite brand is not something I can tell you. Each has its appeal, and they are different enough that it's tough to pick a favorite.

I can't even pick a favorite jacket, which is why I have so many in my closets. I can go back and forth endlessly. These are the makers I like best, but I can't rank them.

• Aero. Great leather, classic vintage styles, civilian, military, and motorcycle, a very wide variety of styles, lots of customization options, great customer service.
• Thedi. Cooler/edgier in style, classic yet contemporary. Beautiful leather. The styles that I like, I really, really like, and the ones I don't care for, well they don't concern me. Theodoros is a master craftsman and an artist, and very easy to deal with directly.
• Langlitz. Fewer styles, true motorcycle gear, timeless, bespoke, top customer service.
• Natel/Natal. Super heavy, limited styles, limited availability, fantastic value if you can find a good one. Objectively probably not the equal of Lost Worlds or Cal Leather, but this is my bias showing.
• Lost Worlds. If you can get past Stu's marketing silliness, he makes a good product. I guess it takes a good decade or so to really break them in. My one LW jacket was bought secondhand from @lina a couple years ago, and I really like it. I keep watching for a good used one that I can afford and fit into, but that's all the experience I have with this brand.
• Vanson. Kindof hit or miss. Some of the styles are not my favorite, but of their jackets that I have and have kept, I really like. They are some of the most functional riding jackets for real motorcycle gear. Fit and quality isn't at the same level as Langlitz, but you can go custom or if you're lucky you may find one that fits very well. Downside seems to be that their very heavy "comp weight" leather seems to be a thing of the past, having been replaced by something not as thick.
• Cal Leather. About the same as Langlitz, really, but the leather tends to be heavier and stiffer (which ain't a bad thing!), and the customer service, well it'd be about impossible to top Langlitz there, but I don't have enough data to evaluate. Great vintage police jackets, but usually very expensive even secondhand, and the condition on the used jackets is often thrashed.
• ELMC/Eastman. My one ELMC jacket, a Windward, is fantastic and one of my favorites. I have no experience with their A2 or bomber jackets, but they consistently get high praise here, which is good enough for me.
• Schott. Most Schott jackets are too thin for my taste, and what they sell these days are overpriced to me. They tend to be more fashion than function, as far as motorcycle gear goes, they're really more rock and roll. Of course, there's a difference between old and new. Occasionally I've found one that I really like, though. My Schott x Context CX113 is a great example.
• Levis. Very good quality at a lower price point, but not thick or heavy, unless you're talking an Aero LVC collaboration.

Brands I've never owned, but like and wouldn't mind having:

• Taubers
• Himel
• Good Wear
• Freewheelers

What do you think about the Canadian: Brimaco, Drospo and Pacific Cycles Leather jackets?
Pacific Cycles used the buffalo hide, I like very much this leather.

 

[Monitor]

I've had the opportunity to handle both Walter Dyer and Natal/Natel goods, and as @Monitor said, they're virtually indistinguishable. I have to say that, of mine, I do favor the Natal/Natel labeled ones slightly. That could be just luck of the draw, or it could be a perception influenced by the fact that Natal/Natel isn't around anymore, and that gives their jackets more mystique.

From what I have gathered, current Walter Dyer jackets aren't made form this super heavy leather that I love, and of the 3-4 of each maker that I've handled, I would have to say that the Nat?l jackets had a slight edge in terms of how the leather felt -- harder hand, stiffer, and less spongy.

Of course, I can't say if that holds true across every example from either label. I wish I knew what the source of the leather was, and what years it was available, or anything at all really about Natal/Natel the company. When I wrote to Walter Dyer a few months ago, they claimed to have no knowledge about Nat?l, and didn't seem to have a sense of history or importance about their products.

Comparing these to other heavy leather jacket makers, I like this leather as well as, if not better than, the heaviest comp weight Vanson leather I've handled, and the one Lost Worlds jacket I have. It's comparable to my vintage Cal Leather jackets, but far more affordable than a vintage Cal in any condition, let alone good condition. And I'd say it's stiffer than the heavy leather that Langlitz used until fairly recently (I understand they no longer offer heavyweight cow, sadly.)

When I bought my first Natal, it was a true steal, about $100 + shipping, and you can still sometimes find them on eBay for very reasonable prices, but $150-$300-$375 is more the case now. When I sold mine, I priced it what I felt it was worth (and what it would take for me to willingly part with it - $500) and I made some money when it finally sold, but now sellers seem to think these are actually worth something, and are charging more. Probably because mine went unsold for about 2 years, and when others listed theirs, they looked to see what they were going for, saw mine, and decided that they could also sell theirs for about the same price. Except for women's Nat?l jackets, which can still be found for <$100(!) And of course Walter Dyer jackets don't seem to have been affected by the bump to Natal/Natel pricing.

So if you're cheap and want something very good, Walter Dyer would seem to be where to look, and if you think that a Nat?l jacket may have a bit of a quality edge, and you are willing to pay a slight premium for it, they're fantastic. WD also seem to be a bit more common, and tend to have a bit more customization, such as different collars and side laces.

Just wanna say that this is a fantastic post, Guppy. You ought to copy/paste it to a Natal thread over at Outerwear. Every single point & every comparison is spot on and exactly my experience with Natal/WD.