Long Hair Brushed Finish

[ChicagoWayVito]

Does anyone know the secrets to doing long hair brushed finishes on felt hats? I would like to learn the technique if anyone can share it.

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[mayserwegener]

Do you have an example?

 

[jlee562]

Ha! I think I get where Steve is going....

Best modern examples are probably Optimo and Black Sheep. I don't think either is likely to spill the beans

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes probably better to stay out of this so please ignore my request.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

Yes probably better to stay out of this so please ignore my request.

There shouldn't be an issue with asking this question. I do have an example and is neither from Optimo nor Black Sheep. This example is from a hatter who has sadly passed away so can't really ask him directly.

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

The older examples that Mayser was alluding to are the pinnacle of long hair finishes, but all require methods and processes that unfortunately have been all but lost to time.

Optimo is able to just outright purchase melusine finishes from FEPSA, Bob at Black Sheep is actually producing his own akin to the one you've used as example. He'd be the best bet for what you're looking for. But to be fair, asking him how he does it is essentially asking Coca Cola to release its cola recipe online.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

The older examples that Mayser was alluding to are the pinnacle of long hair finishes, but all require methods and processes that unfortunately have been all but lost to time.

Optimo is able to just outright purchase melusine finishes from FEPSA, Bob at Black Sheep is actually producing his own akin to the one you've used as example. He'd be the best bet for what you're looking for. But to be fair, asking him how he does it is essentially asking Coca Cola to release its cola recipe online.

For sure I wouldn't just be hitting up Bob for his secret formula. I will have to research melusine finish, I didn't know that was the name for it. I could probably get some from FEPSA as I have ordered from them before but I would like to figure this out. I have some thoughts on how to do this. Just need to figure out if the felt sold from Winchester needs to have the "shag" finish which is a wire brushed wheel finish to pull up the hairs or if there is a true long hair hat body.

Thanks for that piece of information (melusine finish).

 

[mayserwegener]

There are different types of long hair finishes (Velour, Flamand, Soleil). The term Melusine was not used by German and Austrian hat / felt companies. The hat in the photo above is most likely made from a finished Tonak or FEPSA hat body. To produce these finishes you need special machines. I can give you some info on what you would need if you are interested.

Here is an interesting article you might want to take a look at (see below). It's from the 1930s so Hot Wet Brushing (by hand or machine) was still in use but coming under attack by cheap imitations (see today). The finest German & Austrian Velours were produced by Manual Hot Wet Brushing. Today the Hare Felt Hoods are dry scratched and clipped and can't match the old methods. I have a good deal of information on my site about Long Hair finishing processes / methods.

Hair Velour / Real (Echter) Velour / Prime (Prima) Velour Fabrikation von Damen- und Herren- Filzhüten, Der Deustchen Hutmacher Zeitung (1933)

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/216-hair-velour-real-echter-velour-prime-prima-velour-fabrikation-von-damen-und-herren-filzhüten-der-deustchen-hutmacher-zeitung-1933/?hl=velour

This is a super high quality pre WWII Hot Wet Brushed Austrian Velour.

Hückel Superior Crystall Velour

 

[mayserwegener]

Just need to figure out if the felt sold from Winchester needs to have the "shag" finish which is a wire brushed wheel finish to pull up the hairs or if there is a true long hair hat body.

Thanks for that piece of information (melusine finish).

For Long Hair Finishes Hare Fur usually produces finest finish (again check my site). Tonak and FEPSA sells unfinished Hare bodies / Capelines? but it would be best to have them produce the finishes.

Lembert (Augsburg, Germany) still finishes their Hare bodies (they are ones he is dying green). I am not sure where he sources them from but it's probably FEPSA or Tonak. This is Modern Velour and they dry scratch with Shark Skin. Start at 2:18. It's in German but you can see the process. Just pay attention the green Hat Bodies.

Continued.

The way the Lembert factory is pretty much as it was 50 years ago. Everything is still in perfect working order but much of it sits idle. I visited (with Dieter /Dreispitz)Lembert back in 2011.

Lembert also had a Velour Felt factory that produced Felt bodies (especially Velour) . I think it went out of business in the 1960s. Dieter / Dreispitz found this one a while ago.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

...To produce these finishes you need special machines. I can give you some info on what you would need if you are interested.

Yes, please do I am interested in this.

...Here is an interesting article you might want to take a look at (see below). It's from the 1930s so Hot Wet Brushing (by hand or machine) was still in use but coming under attack by cheap imitations (see today)...http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/216-hair-velour-real-echter-velour-prime-prima-velour-fabrikation-von-damen-und-herren-filzhüten-der-deustchen-hutmacher-zeitung-1933/?hl=velour

Thanks, I will read through this article tonight after work. Would like to try doing this by hand on a hat body which must have been done before automation/machinery came along.

...

Wow, that is a super beautiful hat. I would like to be able to do this.

For Long Hair Finishes Hare Fur usually produces finest finish (again check my site). Tonak and FEPSA sells unfinished Hare bodies / Capelines? but it would be best to have them produce the finishes.

So I can order from FEPSA directly and looks like I do not need a minimum. But where can I order TONAK hat bodies from? If you have any sources that would be great. I think EstherWeis orders hers from a place in Germany, I just don't know where.

Lembert (Augsburg, Germany) still finishes their Hare bodies (they are ones he is dying green). I am not sure where he sources them from but it's probably FEPSA or Tonak. This is Modern Velour and they dry scratch with Shark Skin. Start at 2:18. It's in German but you can see the process. Just pay attention the green Hat Bodies.
...
By the way the Lembert factory is pretty much as it was 50 years ago. Everything is still in perfect working order but much of it sits idle. I visited (with Dieter /Dreispitz)Lembert back in 2011.

Thank you for the videos, they were great. I think I need a vacation to Augsburg, Germany to visit Lembert!! I guess I need some shark skin too.

I take it this is your website? I will look through it as you have suggested.
http://www.germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes, please do I am interested in this.



Thanks, I will read through this article tonight after work. Would like to try doing this by hand on a hat body which must have been done before automation/machinery came along.




Wow, that is a super beautiful hat. I would like to be able to do this.

The men that did the Brushing to produce such a hat were experts at working the felt bodies. They started working on them before they were completely felted. Here is a rare photo of Mayser's Velour Manual Wet Brushing (1925). You can see the men working both hoods and blocked hats (pre and post dying). The process (brush, clip, dye) was repeated many times (could take weeks) under hot / steamy conditions. This manual work didn't last much past WWII. I have found some written information about the process but many details are missing. Also it was part of the Felting process so that complicates the situation further. I think it's ok to experiment but this was very serious business back in the day. There is a reason why Austrian and German Velours (and other specificity finishes) were so highly sought after. I would take a look through my web site (start with the article I posted) because there is a good deal of information available (and hopefully more coming).

This is a late 1930s Mayser Velour.

By they way the hat you posted was not Finished by the Hatter. The Capeline or Hood was Finished by the felt producer (probably FEPSA or TONAK).

 

[Bob Roberts]

Just great stuff Steve.

 

[mayserwegener]

Bobs, Thanks! It was a different time.

 

[moehawk]

Kevin, I beleive Esther gets her felts from Wolfram Kopka in Germany.
http://www.kopka.de/home-en.html
they are Tonak as far as I know. I remember her telling me they were Czech made.
I also believe FEPSA will do any of their felts in any of the colors offered with a minimum of 10 pieces per style/color. This info is over a year old, don't know if policies have changed. Other than that, there are the ones on the store portion of their website that can be bought individually, but you are limited to stock on hand.

 

[Bob Roberts]

Bobs, Thanks! It was a different time.

And maybe a better time for executing certain aspects of the craft.

 

[Cane Rod Maker]

Ha! I think I get where Steve is going....

Best modern examples are probably Optimo and Black Sheep. I don't think either is likely to spill the beans

I think I know.....hit me up bro.

 

[1mach1]

Steve, great info you have there, my friend. Thanks for sharing!

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

The men that did the Brushing to produce such a hat were experts at working the felt bodies. They started working on them before they were completely felted. Here is a rare photo of Mayser's Velour Manual Wet Brushing (1925). You can see the men working both hoods and blocked hats (pre and post dying). The process (brush, clip, dye) was repeated many times (could take weeks) under hot / steamy conditions. This manual work didn't last much past WWII. I have found some written information about the process but many details are missing. Also it was part of the Felting process so that complicates the situation further. I think it's ok to experiment but this was very serious business back in the day. There is a reason why Austrian and German Velours (and other specificity finishes) were so highly sought after. I would take a look through my web site (start with the article I posted) because there is a good deal of information available (and hopefully more coming).


By they way the hat you posted was not Finished by the Hatter. The Capeline or Hood was Finished by the felt producer (probably FEPSA or TONAK).

Thanks Steve! Incredible information. That velour hat is amazing. I will be looking through your website.

Kevin, I beleive Esther gets her felts from Wolfram Kopka in Germany.
http://www.kopka.de/home-en.html
they are Tonak as far as I know. I remember her telling me they were Czech made.
I also believe FEPSA will do any of their felts in any of the colors offered with a minimum of 10 pieces per style/color. This info is over a year old, don't know if policies have changed. Other than that, there are the ones on the store portion of their website that can be bought individually, but you are limited to stock on hand.

Thank you for the link I started looking through their inventory.

 

[Michael R.]

www.montanapeaks.com does shags and other long hair finishes , but on hat bodies it seems they sell suede type bodies in places , though I think Art does some and Black Sheep (as was already stated).

 

[bolthead]

Nice stuff mayser......long time, how've u been my friend?