Lock & Co.

[jamespowers]

Since it hasn't been said yet:

James Locke Hatters is the originater of the derby. It was commissioned for a customer with the last name of Coke, for his game keepers to wear. So that their hats would not get nocked off in the brush

while they were riding on horseback chasing poachers on Coke's land. The "iron hat" was supposed to protect their heads from low slung branches. You could call it the first crash helmet.
It was known as the Bowler because of the brothers Thomas and William Bowler. They designed the prototype for James and George Locke. The brothers Locke are given credit for designing the Bowler but all they did was slightly alter a hat they had in their inventory---created by their grandfather. :cool2:
The hat was to meet Thomas William Coke, 2nd Earl of Leicester's specifications that they design a hat that a man could stand on. It is reputed that the first Bowlers were indeed that stiff. Coke is said to have seen the test of the protype hold up to this kind of pressure. I have a hard time believing it. Maybe the men in those days were a bit lighter than I. :hamburger
So, in short, even the Bowler Locke is credited for was actually a collaboration between their company and the Bowlers. If they don't produce the hats they sell now then that is something they started in 1850.
The Bowler is know as a Derby in the US because the hat was first seen on the Earl of Derby when he came to American and was seen wearing a Bowler. The name stuck and we have Derbys while the English have Bowlers and Cokes. :cheers1:

Regards to all,

J

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... a hat made in the Czech Republic,in a factory that until no long ago used to make hats that look like this:

But I like that hat!

 

[geo]

So in the bowler/derby story, Coke was the customer, Lock was the hatter, and the Bowler brothers were the hatmakers. The hat is still called a coke hat by Lock.

But I like that hat!

Soon to be available at Lock and Co., London.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Jazz trumpeters in the '20s and '30s used a contraption called a "metal derby" to create special sounds. They would blow their horn into the aluminum bowler's crown, while they held the "hat" by its "brim".

You can occasionally find metal derbies on eBay. Many sellers have no idea what they were used for.

 

[Fedora]

Czech hats... It's still hard to believe that Lock is selling Czech hats. Then Bates must be too, and Herbert Johnson. Does anybody know if the Indy fedora from HJ is also made in the Czech Republic?

Could be that HJ is using Tonak. But, let's be fair here, Tonak makes some great felt, or at least, offer it to hatters. The trouble is, many hatters use the cheapest line of felt for their best selling hats, be it Tonak or Portugal. Both companies actually offer the higher quality felt, and it is very good. You can buy a felt body from these companies and pay less than 10 bucks per body, or you can buy one of their good bodies and pay a hundred bucks. Most of the dress hatters use the cheap bodies. Most western hatters use the really good stuff. And, that is why they are tearing Stetson and Resistol new arses. This has not filtered down to the dress hat market yet. Not much anyways. Fedora

 

[Aerol]

English Locks

If Lock is no longer making hats it's a terrible loss. I have a "Made in England" Lock from the early '70's and it's a work of art.

(well, maybe not a work of "our Art," but that's another story)

 

[Marc Chevalier]

And, that is why they are tearing Stetson and Resistol new arses.

Heh heh -- he said a b-a-d word.

Bartender? MK? Bueller?



.

 

[jamespowers]

So in the bowler/derby story, Coke was the customer, Lock was the hatter, and the Bowler brothers were the hatmakers. The hat is still called a coke hat by Lock.

You got it. :arated:

 

[geo]

If Lock is no longer making hats it's a terrible loss.

Lock never made the hats themselves. See above my post about hatters vs. hatmakers. The difference is that the hats used to be made by hatmakers in England, and now the hats are made in a Czech factory.

 

[jamespowers]

Lock never made the hats themselves. See above my post about hatters vs. hatmakers. The difference is that the hats used to be made by hatmakers in England, and now the hats are made in a Czech factory.

Yep, you got it again. :arated:
Although I think there must be at least one custom hatter left in England. If you want a hat completely made in England (aside from the body) then you are likely going to have to go the custom route. I don't know if it would be any cheaper though.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Panamabob]

Don't forget to look at their Montecristis. They are mostly Cuenca hats in disguise.

 

[MK]

A choice of words

I guess it depends on what you call "making" a hat is. You guys make it sound like they just pull the hats out of the box and stick a price tag on it. I never assumed Lock, Optimo, Gary White, Dave Brown....or any other custom hat maker to go out and kill the rabbits and beavers, and skin them to make me a hat. Felt has always come from a factory. These hat makers but hat bodies then block and finish it into a hat. That is making a hat to me. That is like telling Ralph Lauren, you didn't make that suit. You just bought the material and sewed it together.

I go to London every January and always pop my head into Herbert Johnson and James Lock. HJ is sad. They don't make hats at all, now that Swales is gone. They just sell Borsalinos and a few odds and ends. Lock on the other hand is still in the hat making business. I don't care for their low, tappered crowns that seem so popular in their store. I did pass a gent on the street who was wearing one of the better looking fedoras I have seen in London. It had a nice tall, straight crown. I asked him where he got it. He said he had it made at Lock. I imagine they have blocks of all types but just make squaty trilbys because that is popular currently.

I have considered have them make me one....but in the end, I feel that I would have a better chance getting what I really want stateside....and without the puzzeled looks and having to explain myself. Perhaps one day.

 

[Fedora]

These hat makers but hat bodies then block and finish it into a hat. That is making a hat to me. That is like telling Ralph Lauren, you didn't make that suit. You just bought the material and sewed it together.

Good point MK. All hat bodies, come from just a few factories, and as far as I know, all small hatters buy their bodies. You can even buy them factory pounced so you do not have to do the pouncing. Personally, I would rather pounce them myself. Even if a few hatters actually made their own felt, in the old way, prior to planking machinery, I doubt anyone would buy them as they would be rough compared to what we are used to.

Heh heh -- he said a b-a-d word.

Bartender? MK? Bueller?

Oops, I apolgize. :icon_smil I just thought we all had one, and it was a fact of existence. The correct medical term, sounds even more vulgar to me. Fedora

 

[geo]

Lock on the other hand is still in the hat making business.

This is exactly the point of my original question. I wanted to know if they buy the felt elsewhere and block and finish the hat themselves, which is OK, or if they buy the hats ready-made and ready-blocked and sell them at a premium. That's why I asked earlier:

Are you sure they don't buy the felt elsewhere and block it on the premises?

I don't care for their low, tappered crowns that seem so popular in their store. I did pass a gent on the street who was wearing one of the better looking fedoras I have seen in London. It had a nice tall, straight crown. I asked him where he got it. He said he had it made at Lock. I imagine they have blocks of all types but just make squaty trilbys because that is popular currently.

It could have been the "Chelsea" model. It's the only good-looking hat in their catalogue.

 

[Aerol]

Hatmaking

Excellent analysis, MK!

 

[Barry]

Anyone know the average re-sale price range for a Lock & Co. unlined Fedora? I saw one in a store in my size - it's about $160. It looks a lot like the Chelsea and somewhat like the Louisiana.. They've got a few left over. I wish I knew the name of that lid...

Barry

 

[ferryengr]

I've made a few trips to London recently and picked up this hat at Lock & Co as my first "real" hat. I've read on the Lounge mixed remarks about the products Lock & Co puts out. Mostly in regards to their products being overpriced. This hat is their Madison and I had a narrower ribbon put on it (at not additional charge). It cost me 150 pounds in January, 2007. I've compared my Lock hat with a $200 Beaver Brand fedora that I purchased recently at the Fedora Store and the felt on the Lock is softer, thicker and has a slighly longer "nap". The Lock hat seems to have a nicer lining that the Beaver Brand hat. I did notice on my January trip into the Lock store in Mayair that they had a large supply of cheaper looking hats on a post-Christmas "sale" for about 80 to 100 pounds. I'm curious if Loungers have compared the cheap hats or have seen Lock's regular stock. Overall, my experience with Lock was good, although the hat is pricey.

I'll try to figure out how to post a couple of photos . . .

 

[HDRnR]

I have a Ghurka hat made by them. Seems like pretty good quality.

 

[ferryengr]

I guess I am unable to figure out how to post photos. . . .

 

[ferryengr]

OK, some photos of my hat:

Lock does not identify the felt make up (fur, etc). Does anyone know what their hats are made of and/or who makes them for them?