Living in the past

[Flicka]

There are all kinds of "vintage lives" -- the thing we should avoid is assuming *the* vintage life is the one of ostentation. A lot lot lot lot more people in the Era lived very simply than ever lived splendidly.

Are you saying not everyone in the '20s and '30 had 3 gramophones and 7 cars?



I agree; everyone is trying to bring back different parts of the past in different ways. There's no right or wrong way of 'vintage living'.

 

[Angus Forbes]

Not everyone was thrifty during The Era. One of my Dad's classmates (public high school, 1930) was squired around in a new chrome-plated Cadillac (the whole body was chromed, not just the trim and bumpers). Pretty flashy (no pun intended) for the depths of the Depression. The car embarrassed the kid to death, but his parents evidently had other values at play -- made a lasting impression on my Dad, who disliked much chrome on a car for the rest of his life.

Edit -- just thinking about that Cadillac -- the driver must have needed to wear welder's goggles on a sunny day . . .

 

[Edward]

Are you saying not everyone in the '20s and '30 had 3 gramophones and 7 cars?



I agree; everyone is trying to bring back different parts of the past in different ways. There's no right or wrong way of 'vintage living'.

Nobody ever wants to go vintage at the lower end of the scale. Probably similar as to how, even in such a multi-cultural city as London, the vintage community is overwhelmingly white.

 

[mummyjohn]

Well, given the option, I'd say nobody wants to do anything at the lower end of the scale. At the end of the day, there's not a "right" nor "wrong" way (which are obviously subjective words) to do anything. Just gotta do what you do, do what makes you, you.

 

[William Stratford]

Well, given the option, I'd say nobody wants to do anything at the lower end of the scale. At the end of the day, there's not a "right" nor "wrong" way (which are obviously subjective words) to do anything. Just gotta do what you do, do what makes you, you.

fiokmnvcfryu jpopojio, gioioibvrtrgbcawpsapegbno?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Not everyone was thrifty during The Era. One of my Dad's classmates (public high school, 1930) was squired around in a new chrome-plated Cadillac (the whole body was chromed, not just the trim and bumpers). Pretty flashy (no pun intended) for the depths of the Depression. The car embarrassed the kid to death, but his parents evidently had other values at play -- made a lasting impression on my Dad, who disliked much chrome on a car for the rest of his life.

Edit -- just thinking about that Cadillac -- the driver must have needed to wear welder's goggles on a sunny day . . .

I hope it was a V-16, because that's the only way it'd go fast enough to escape the rock-throwing mobs. The Depression wasn't a good time to be a public plutocrat.

 

[mummyjohn]

...the rock-throwing mobs...

The fact that people out there exist that think such actions are acceptable is just beyond me. To truly elaborate on how I feel about such individuals would require a whole trove of language not nearly acceptable for the forum, however. It's just savage.

 

[Angus Forbes]

PBS had a good series called something like "America in the 1940's." Amongst other topics, several people were interviewed regarding their experiences in the Depression.

One was a woman who had moved from the poorest part of Appalachia to Chicago as a child. She spoke convincingly about going to the soup kitchen in the cold, without shoes, and so on.

Then they switched to a handsome, regal, rich looking man. He spoke of "doing fairly well" during the depression, and went on to talk about his sister's French nanny, the governesses, the round-the-clock footmen, the house in Manhattan, the drivers, and the Rolls Royce with a custom body (as all RRs may have had in those days). He talked about feeling ashamed and hiding when he was in the car and the car went past a bread line. But when WWII broke out, just after he had graduated from Yale, he enlisted in the Marines, was commissioned a second lieutenant, and sent to the South Pacific. Being a "follow me, men" leader, he personally went after a machine-gun nest that was killing his men, and got himself shot across the chest, nearly fatally.

His name was Paul Moore. In later life he became Episcopal Bishop of New York, and seemed to me to be a really good man. Turns out that his family owned Bankers Trust. The point, however, was how everyone came together for the common good during the war, despite differences as great as those between Bishop Moore and the woman from Appalachia.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The ultimate example of such noblesse oblige was Franklin Delano Roosevelt himself -- and it earned him near-universal condemnation from much of upper-crust America as "a traitor to his class." And yet it was his efforts, more than those of any other man, which prevented a violent revolution in the United States during 1933. We were *that close* to the edge, especially after the collapse of the banking system just before FDR's inauguration.

As far as rock-throwing mobs go, I guess it depends on which side of the fence you're on -- and, in fact, "which side are you on?" was a common question of the time. Some see them as working people refusing any longer to be complicit in their own oppression. Read about the labor wars of 1936-37, in which private goon armies at the behest of the auto and steel companies wrought physical havoc, and you might see things in greater detail. Rocks and bottles were the very least of it.

"Don’t scab for the bosses,
Don’t listen to their lies.
Us poor folks haven’t got a chance,
Unless we organize."
-- Which Side Are You On? by Florence Reese, 1931

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I hope it was a V-16, because that's the only way it'd go fast enough to escape the rock-throwing mobs. The Depression wasn't a good time to be a public plutocrat.

I remember some news stories from 2008-09 when the economy went off the cliff of high end stores offering their customers the option of a plain bag instead of the usual fancy ones with their logo on it because the customers were being harassed and even physically assaulted by irate people.

 

[Angus Forbes]

The ultimate example of such noblesse oblige was Franklin Delano Roosevelt himself

I think that FDR was a great national hero, second-to-none. Dorris Kerns Goodwin's (sp?) book "No Ordinary Time" about FDR is a good read for people interested in The Era.

 

[Edward]

and the Rolls Royce with a custom body (as all RRs may have had in those days).

Right up until the launch of the Silver Dawn model in 1949, Rolls Royce manufactured chassis and mechanics only: bodywork was all fitted by independent coachbuilders. The Silver Dawn was the first car bearing the Rolls Royce badge to actually have a standardised body built in the Rolls Royce factory.

 

[Stanley Doble]

The first thing that impressed me about the story was the way he carefully listens to old 78s and transcribes every note to recreate long lost charts. He wants to get the music exactly right. Evidently he wants to get the cars, clothes, and shoes right too. This is his quest and he is willing to pay the price in time effort and money. I find this admirable.

As for the $1300 shoes, a pair of shoes like that not only fit better, feel better and look better. They will last a lifetime. If he bought a pair of $130 shoes and threw them away after 2 years, would you consider him extravagant? The hand made shoes will outlast 10 pairs like that.

Same as the cars. You can buy some awfully nice vintage cars for less than a top of the line Hyundai if you stay away from the Rolls Royce and Duesenberg class. $15000 to $30000. As for the 1966 Plymouth you can buy an excellent one for $5000.

If someone owned 7 cars, one after another, that cost $5000 to $30,000 would you accuse them of putting on the dog? Of course not. We all know someone who has bought a new, or near new car every few years. Where are they now? In the junkyard most likely.

This reminds me of Pat Ganahl, editor of a car magazine. He got a new secretary who asked him one day "are you rich?" it seems she saw him driving a different fancy hot rod every day and thought he must be a millionaire.

The fancy hot rods were as follows:

1948 Chevrolet sedan, given to him by his grandmother when he was a teenager. Since then he has repainted it 4 times, replaced the engine 7 times, transmission 4 times etc. over the last 40 years.

1932 Chevrolet coupe he bought for $600 in the mid seventies and likewise has been working on ever since.

1960 VW beetle, formerly his son's car when he was in high school, bought for $200 and rebuilt as a father and son project, handed over to the old man when he grew up and got a job.

1965 Chevrolet hardtop, bought for his wife when it was a late model used car for $1200.

$2000 spent on cars in more than 40 years. I know people who spend more on car lease payments than that in four months and have nothing to show for it. He has a "rich man's" car collection because once he buys a car he hangs onto it and keeps it in good shape. You could do the same over the years, buying a 1930 Buick instead of a new Toyota, paying it off in 3 or 4 years, and buying a 1925 Studebaker but keeping the Buick as well.

Obviously this is not for everybody. What I am driving at is, Mr. Arenella may be obsessive but he is not necessarily a spendthrift. In fact I would call him frugal if you define frugal as getting value for your money.

I suspect there are individuals on this board who live a similar lifestyle on a modest income, and impress their neighbors with their "wealth" even though they spend less on clothes and cars, than those who buy $200 athletic shoes and throw them away after a year, and lease a new car every few years.

 

[TomS]

Thanks for sharing...

 

[Edward]

The first thing that impressed me about the story was the way he carefully listens to old 78s and transcribes every note to recreate long lost charts. He wants to get the music exactly right. Evidently he wants to get the cars, clothes, and shoes right too. This is his quest and he is willing to pay the price in time effort and money. I find this admirable.

As for the $1300 shoes, a pair of shoes like that not only fit better, feel better and look better. They will last a lifetime. If he bought a pair of $130 shoes and threw them away after 2 years, would you consider him extravagant? The hand made shoes will outlast 10 pairs like that.

Same as the cars. You can buy some awfully nice vintage cars for less than a top of the line Hyundai if you stay away from the Rolls Royce and Duesenberg class. $15000 to $30000. As for the 1966 Plymouth you can buy an excellent one for $5000.

If someone owned 7 cars, one after another, that cost $5000 to $30,000 would you accuse them of putting on the dog? Of course not. We all know someone who has bought a new, or near new car every few years. Where are they now? In the junkyard most likely.

This reminds me of Pat Ganahl, editor of a car magazine. He got a new secretary who asked him one day "are you rich?" it seems she saw him driving a different fancy hot rod every day and thought he must be a millionaire.

The fancy hot rods were as follows:

1948 Chevrolet sedan, given to him by his grandmother when he was a teenager. Since then he has repainted it 4 times, replaced the engine 7 times, transmission 4 times etc. over the last 40 years.

1932 Chevrolet coupe he bought for $600 in the mid seventies and likewise has been working on ever since.

1960 VW beetle, formerly his son's car when he was in high school, bought for $200 and rebuilt as a father and son project, handed over to the old man when he grew up and got a job.

1965 Chevrolet hardtop, bought for his wife when it was a late model used car for $1200.

$2000 spent on cars in more than 40 years. I know people who spend more on car lease payments than that in four months and have nothing to show for it. He has a "rich man's" car collection because once he buys a car he hangs onto it and keeps it in good shape. You could do the same over the years, buying a 1930 Buick instead of a new Toyota, paying it off in 3 or 4 years, and buying a 1925 Studebaker but keeping the Buick as well.

Obviously this is not for everybody. What I am driving at is, Mr. Arenella may be obsessive but he is not necessarily a spendthrift. In fact I would call him frugal if you define frugal as getting value for your money.

I suspect there are individuals on this board who live a similar lifestyle on a modest income, and impress their neighbors with their "wealth" even though they spend less on clothes and cars, than those who buy $200 athletic shoes and throw them away after a year, and lease a new car every few years.

A lot of good points. My dad has always been into vintage cars, and rarely puts money into them - trading up, mostly. People have often looked at a particular car or other and said "oh, a sports car, you must be rich". In reality he's spent less on the car than some folks would on a year old Fiesta.

 

[sheeplady]

I remember some news stories from 2008-09 when the economy went off the cliff of high end stores offering their customers the option of a plain bag instead of the usual fancy ones with their logo on it because the customers were being harassed and even physically assaulted by irate people.

I have never heard this. But, I have to say, today's economy is nothing (absolutely nothing) like the depression. I understand that people are frustrated, disillusioned, out of work, and some have lost everything, but it is nothing on the scale of the depression. While I can understand such behavior in the depression, I have to wonder why these people were targeting individuals who they were probably just like a few months or years ago. I can't help but feel some of this is calling the kettle black and motivated by jealousy. "How dare you buy a designer handbag! I can't buy a designer handbag because I lost my job! I have to deal with this handbag that's 2 years old!" Not everybody, but I can't believe a single assaulter never bought something from a designer.

The fact that people out there exist that think such actions are acceptable is just beyond me. To truly elaborate on how I feel about such individuals would require a whole trove of language not nearly acceptable for the forum, however. It's just savage.

I find the behavior of displaying wealth to such an extreme to be distasteful in an environment of such extreme poverty. I can't believe if this is how this man lived his life (I'm talking about the gentleman with the chromed vehicle, not the original person in the article), driving a car that essentially sends the message, "look at me, I'm filthy rich! nah-nah!" that he was that into giving to the poor or trying to make poverty less extreme. Nobody drives a car that over the top unless they have a pointed message to send, and that message is rarely generosity.

My sense of the depression is it wasn't really "the rich" or the "well-to-do" that people were after- it was the people who wouldn't for a minute let you forget that they were rich that irked people. Plenty of people who did ok in the depression weren't attacked by their neighbors or anything like that, but they didn't go around saying "I've got more money than you do!" when they knew people were starving.

 

[John in Covina]

Here in California it is a depression. The official out of work numbers are not reflective of the true picture because anyone that has exhausted benefits is no longer considered. The estimate is over 20% for the state but in many communities it is easily over 25% and some much much higher. All in the state that was on it's own considered the 7th largest economy in the world. Now we are headed for 3rd world status. States like Texas are surging forward because they are promoting business not castigating it.

 

[scottyrocks]

Whether it's rock-throwers, businessmen, or politicians, people seem to be unable to find a happy medium.

This is why politics, business, etc., seem to swing back and forth every so many years - why there are recessions every so many years. A change is required and brought about, improvement occurs, and then it just gets out of hand again, usually in the opposite direction. So then another change is necessary, and things move back in the other direction. And the cycle continues.

One day, maybe the moon and stars will align, and there will be people in positions of power who know how to make things work well for everyone without being accused of being either vulture capitalists or commie-socialists. But probably not.

 

[sheeplady]

Here in California it is a depression. The official out of work numbers are not reflective of the true picture because anyone that has exhausted benefits is no longer considered. The estimate is over 20% for the state but in many communities it is easily over 25% and some much much higher. All in the state that was on it's own considered the 7th largest economy in the world. Now we are headed for 3rd world status. States like Texas are surging forward because they are promoting business not castigating it.

In upstate NY, we've had a steady 15% unemployment rate since the 1970s during the best of times. So, honestly, given the money and the economic boom California saw over the past several decades, you're just joining the reality I've experienced most of my life growing up. (I did choose to stay here as an adult, because if everybody runs, it will get worse.) Welcome, come on in, you're going to be staying a while.

 

[John in Covina]

In upstate NY, we've had a steady 15% unemployment rate since the 1970s during the best of times. So, honestly, given the money and the economic boom California saw over the past several decades, you're just joining the reality I've experienced most of my life growing up. (I did choose to stay here as an adult, because if everybody runs, it will get worse.) Welcome, come on in, you're going to be staying a while.

The county that Plattsburgh is in and the one Potsdam is in was always vying for highest number of homes with dirt floors.