Limited Edition Himel Bros avail. at Orvis?

[Boyo]

I happened upon this jacket listed in a recent Orvis catalogue, and hand signed by Dave to boot..

http://m.orvis.com/p/limited-edition-transcontinental-railroad-jacket/2j81

 

[singer]

View attachment 56963 I happened upon this jacket listed in a recent Orvis catalogue, and hand signed by Dave to boot..

http://m.orvis.com/p/limited-edition-transcontinental-railroad-jacket/2j81

That is the Himel Northlander, one of his newer styles:

There are more photos on the Himel Bros Facebook page.

 

[handymike]

AMAZING!!!!!!!

 

[thor]

Limited edition, only 75 will be made, each personally signed and numbered. Cool jacket!

 

[Monitor]

I would ask about the price but I know Super would just post the Dr. Evil One Million Dollars picture... XD

75 is kind of a lot, actually. I wonder now how many Kensingtons does Himel makes per year?

 

[willyto]

Yes, 75 of this jacket are a lot of them. It isn't that limited edition and to be honest Himel's signature doesn't actually add any value to them unless he's the one making them. It's like signing the work of somebody else. Why would be that valuable? It is more valuable to me have a jacket made by John Chapman entirely that has his signtature written all over it and it's almost like a bespoke experience than having Himel's signature on a jacket that one of his machinists produced in a jacket that is not made to your measurements. EDIT to clarify: That is in fact if he's not the one doing the jackets and as far as I know he doesn't do all the jackets himself so these ones would be an exception.

By the way, is there any information on the people behind the jackets from Himel like we have from Aero Leathers? Because I haven't found anything about it or I haven't looked good enough. I'm refering to the more personal experience of knowing who made your jacket, and being a small company and charging those prices I think I would like to know who made my jacket.

I started to look at HB from another perspective the moment he started bashing other brands to promote his jackets without even having in mind the different type of leathers or for example the double leather cuff versus leather plus canvas. If he thinks that the only reason why his jackets are more expensive is the stitch count then he's not saying much of his brand :/

At least that's my opinion on the matter.

 

[handymike]

Don't let Dave hear you Willyto. As far as I'm aware, all these jackets were made by him and his team. It was a huge job/contract. I followed it on Instagram.

 

[willyto]

Don't let Dave hear you Willyto. As far as I'm aware, all these jackets were made by him and his team. It was a huge job/contract. I followed it on Instagram.

Well I added a clarification. I follow him on Instagram too but lately not so much about leather jackets, just his fun trips. As far as I know he doesn't do that much manual work on the jackets usually, at least from what I've read so far on the internet, he's the head of everything obviously and he decides what is done and how.

I'm not saying in any case the jackets aren't great, I'm just saying that a signature of the owner of the brand does nothing to me unless he's the one that did actually make those jackets. It would be better in my opinion to add all the names of the ones who created the jackets and give them credit also.

 

[Monitor]

lol! And stitch count makes for a superior leather jacket, how again..? That's Aero they're comparing their stuff to, it would appear. If it is, wow, real nice of Himel to sh*t on the maker that for all intents and purposes opened the doors into the vtg repro market for them. Maybe even created it. Four decades ago. Where were various Himels and Diamond Daves 40 years ago? Counting stitches, I suppose. That's some quality elitism right there.

 

[Superfluous]

I would ask about the price but I know Super would just post the Dr. Evil One Million Dollars picture... XD

Willyto. As far as I'm aware, all these jackets were made by him and his team.

Dave does employ at least one highly experienced leather artisan who helps with the manufacturing. That said, Dave is actively involved in the manufacturing process, including the finish details in particular.

lol! And stitch count makes for a superior leather jacket, how again..?

There is no denying that, all other things being equal, a higher stitch count creates a stronger seam. I am not suggesting that a higher stitch count is necessary, nor that a lower stitch count is inadequate or substandard. To the contrary, depending on the number of stitches per inch, a lower stitch count may be more than adequate. Moreover, stitch counts undeniably reach a point of diminishing returns. That said, most of the details of the jackets we favor and/or exalt are constructed well beyond manufacturing standards necessary for typical use, and well beyond the point of diminishing returns. Therefore, while a higher stitch count may not be necessary, it does create a stronger seam as compared to a lower stitch count; and a stronger seam is preferable to a weaker seam.

Additionally, a higher stitch count is more costly to produce, and requires greater skills to execute properly.

Based on the foregoing -- stronger seam, greater cost and greater skills -- a higher stitch count is generally considered an element of a higher quality product (one of many elements).

That's Aero they're comparing their stuff to, it would appear. If it is, wow, real nice of Himel to sh*t on the maker that for all intents and purposes opened the doors into the vtg repro market for them. Maybe even created it. Four decades ago. Where were various Himels and Diamond Daves 40 years ago? Counting stitches, I suppose. That's some quality elitism right there.

First, Dave did not mention that the comparison jacket was made by Aero, even you are not certain, I do not know, and 99.9% of people would never know.

Second, while Aero's contributions to the vintage repro jacket market are considerable and undeniable, it is not incumbent upon any current manufacturer to pay homage to Aero, or treat Aero with kid gloves. Himel and Aero are competitors. Therefore, while each should exhibit professionalism and respect when competing for the same customers, Himel is not obliged to compete differently as against Aero because of Aero's historical contributions. Rather, Himel should compete against Aero with the same decorum and etiquette that Himel competes with other manufacturers, and Himel's conduct should be judged accordingly.

 

[nick123]

I'd buy it. And a hero's ink. Way cooler than an autographed football.

 

[singer]

I agree with @Superfluous. I also think that stitch count is really just an aesthetic preference, because any normal stitch count is more than functional in a leather garment.

With stitching, I personally prefer three attributes: the higher stitch count aesthetic, small holes relative to the thread size, and the angled "european style" stitch from the hand-sewn saddlery tradition. This is a style of stitching that Hermes, for example, is famous for. This is a look that Himel (and apparently Freewheelers) is looking to emulate with their machines. (Though theirs is a machine lock stitch vs the saddle stitch, but it visually looks similar.)

They use a certain type of needle and thread to get this look. 0nly the very tip of the needle is sharp and cuts the leather, and as the needle widens it is blunt, pushing the hole wider temporarily as the thread goes through. The hole then closes up a bit after the needle passes through. The other maker is clearly uses a needle that has a cutting point that is the size of the whole diameter of the needle, leaving a large circular hole, vs a small, angled slit.

I do not like this look personally. The holes really stand out, and the stitch line is forced into a straight line (and there's nothing wrong with that). It's something that I notice immediately, probably because at one point was interested in getting into leathercrafting as a hobby.

I like that makers like Himel sweat these small details--it has to look just so. The other maker's stitching might be just as intentional, which is why I think it's just a matter of preference.

If the garment is meant to have a super burly look--then lower stitch count and chunky thread is appropriate, IMO. And of course the stitch count must match the item--higher for a watch strap, lower for a belt.

Higher stitch count is certainly a mark of quality and labor in hand sewn goods. It just takes longer to do more stitches by hand. With a machine, it's more a matter of preference, I think. Also, the strength of the seam is complicated because there are so many variables. A higher stitch count is better in some respects, but it also has more perforations in the leather. The strength depends on: the size of the holes, the number of them, the angle and shape of them (stitches between holes in this shape: - - - - - are not as strong as stitches between angled holes of this shape: / / / / /), the type of thread, the stitch count, the type of seam, etc. But most jackets don't see extreme stresses where this matters too much, so I think it's mainly preference.

I do think Himel's photo are good and fair examples of how the details of their work are different. And I would certainly be interested in seeing other makers going into depth about their differences. That'd be a lot more fun!

 

[Superfluous]

^ This. Much better explanation than mine.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I agree with @Superfluous. I also think that stitch count is really just an aesthetic preference, because any normal stitch count is more than functional in a leather garment.

This.
Your post explains everything very well.
At the very least, I find the way Himel's jackets are sewn to look more beautiful than most others (other than Freewheelers, RMC, etc).

As said before, even at the point of Aero, you are WAY past the point of diminishing returns. If that is the case, why can't Dave point out these small details and promote that his stitching looks nicer than that of other makers?

My Himel jacket is still one of the best items of clothing I own. His quality is pretty epic.

 

[Monitor]

First, Dave did not mention that the comparison jacket was made by Aero, even you are not certain, I do not know, and 99.9% of people would never know.

You're 100% right. I don't know if it's Aero. Nobody does. It could be Gustin. lawl.

Second, while Aero's contributions to the vintage repro jacket market are considerable and undeniable, it is not incumbent upon any current manufacturer to pay homage to Aero, or treat Aero with kid gloves. Himel and Aero are competitors. Therefore, while each should exhibit professionalism and respect when competing for the same customers, Himel is not obliged to compete differently as against Aero because of Aero's historical contributions. Rather, Himel should compete against Aero with the same decorum and etiquette that Himel competes with other manufacturers, and Himel's conduct should be judged accordingly.

Absolutely, it's just business and Himel doesn't owe anyone anything but in my eyes, this shouldn't be the kind of business where one maker should belittle another on such trivialities because it is exactly such conduct that fuels the elitist tendencies that are the trademark of a fashion industry which eventually turns customers away. Nobody likes that guy looking down upon what you're wearing. He's an ass. That's a fact.
This vintage jacket business is an extremely niche market and the product Himel makes is extremely unique. They're not even in direct comparison with any other maker on the market, so what's the point saying another maker is inferior? If I wanted Avro or Kensington, where else would I go besides Himel? That's why I find the above twitter (or instagram or whatever that is) post unprofessional. Let your work do the talking. Should be more than enough for Himel.

But that's just my naive vision of how the world should be.

Regardless of which maker Himel is comparing their work against, if it's artisantry they want to show off, why not compare it with the vintage jackets they're basing their designs on? That would be fair as then people would then realize that instead of dishing out moon money the re-sellers are asking for rotten, moldy, chewed up, crumbling jackets on eBay, they could get a much, much higher quality repro that's actually worth the money.

What I'm trying to say here, anyone can play this game. . . And it never ends well. Stu has actually lost business because of his stupid crap.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Nice leather. The pattern itself doesn't appeal to me

Monitor, I agree. Of course, even the best repros are kinda inaccurate, they are so much better made (and over-engineered) compared to the vintage ones.

 

[navetsea]

about leather and stitch count, I rather have lower stitch count and bigger thread.

the closer the holes to each other, making the leather weaker, and combined with thin strong thread in a tension it would be as sharp as cutting wire... it has a bigger potential to cut the panel on the seams like ticket/ coupon cutout line.

lower stitch count further apart from one to the next, and bigger thread which is obviously more round and blunt, is much safer to the leather.

I do ask for finer thread and smaller stitching when the stitching is around pocket's zipper, or along the hem etc, that wouldn't deal with a lot of weight and pull.

 

[Monitor]

...as for the stitch count, what Nave said. I've been told by a leather jacket tailor told me that a really high stitch count compromises the integrity of the leather as it gets overly perforated. It's like those sheets of paper with perforation lines you can separate from one another. And that the overly perforated leather can split just as easily as the seam can. Makes sense to me...

 

[Graemsay]

I've seen Himel's jackets up close. In comparison to something like an Aero or Simmons Bilt, they are nicer, but I thought that it was a matter of degree. The stitching was a bit cleaner, and some of the details slightly better executed.

A couple of people thought that the Scottish jackets were nicer.

That said, there's a big price difference between the makers. I'm not sure whether paying twice as much for a Himel would be worth it relative to (say) an Aero in Vicenza.

 

[Sloan1874]

I had a look at the Himel instagram vid. A couple of things struck me: the pile of pockets seemed to tack a little close to a factory line process rather than the bespoke approach that the price would suggest, and how cold is the Himel factory? Surely if you're charging $$$$, you can afford to turn the heating up a little and at least let them take the gloves off!