Lil sump'm for the conservatives here.

[Bebop]

Let's build a car that does not need oil from Utah or Alaska or anywhere else and screw over all the oil barrons everywhere.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Let's build a car that does not need oil from Utah or Alaska or anywhere else and screw over all the oil barrons everywhere.

Spoken like a true Left Coastie! Go ride a bike :kick: I'll take my truck.

 

[Bebop]

Thank you for the compliment Dusty Rhodes but I would rather run over bike riders than ride one. Why would not wanting to depend on oil make anyone a left coastie? Is the rest of the country pro oil consumption? If you are pro oil consumption, maybe you can pay to fill my trucks tank at $75 a pop. My truck is bigger than yours. :rage: :jeep: :kick: :kick:

 

[Slicksuit]

I agree, politics is too much showmanship, grandstanding, and sound-bites. Anyone ever notice how so many things are extreme in this country? Extreme diets (Atkins anyone?), extreme TV, extreme sports, extremely big SUV's (most people who own a hummer probably never have seen a dirt road), big blockbuster movies, super size fast food, etc. I think politics is just one face of it all.

I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if this country tried instant-runoff voting and proportional representation in the legislature.

The first, proportional representation, is easy - the proportion (ie. percentage) of seats for a given legislature are divided up according to the number of votes given to each party.

Instant runoff voting (IRV) works like this: In a race among many candidates, votes mark their first, second, third, etc perferences for each. At the vote count, the candidate with the least number of 1st place votes is eliminated, and those voters who voted for him first have their second preferred candidate counted, and those votes are added to the totals for their preferred second candidate. It continues down the line until a clear candidate is reached with 50% of all votes.

In this scenario, no votes are lost to a 'spoiler' third candidate, such as Nader or Perot in the last few elections. It also allows more room for a multi-party system, and ensures that no votes are thrown out. It also helps to decrease the influence of special-interest groups.

It may sound complicated, but makes sense to me. For more information:
Instant runoff voting

 

[Deleted member 259]

Spoken like a true Left Coastie! Go ride a bike :kick: I'll take my truck.

Well, my hybrid gets better mileage, I spend less on gas (which is peaking at around 2.60 a gallon here), I'm not emiting more grossness into the air, and I get one heck of a tax break!

My bike is for recreational purposes only!

 

[The Wingnut]

Bebop, why are you complaining about gas prices and dependence on oil if you drive such a huge truck?

Either get something that gets better mileage or quit complaining...

 

[Biltmore Bob]

But you still need gas..

and until we have an alternate source of energy, which won't be anytime real soon, we need to become less dependent on the Arabs. How 'bout this...let's not depend on Arab oil at all. We are at war with them after all. I recently heard, and the source escapes me right now, that there is more oil in Utah than in the Middle East anyway. I think Orrin Hatch said it. Are we crazy. All we would need then is a couple more refineries and we would have 35 cents a gallon gas again. We must be out of our mind depending on our enemies for gas. The Arabs are laghing all the way to the bank, at our expense.

 

[BellyTank]

We are consumers. We consume oil. We are manipulated and exploited by those who supply the oil. As long as there is a demand and the price is good for the suppliers, there's no rush to change the status quo.

B
T

 

[Biltmore Bob]

More reason to increase domestic production.

You think Orrin Hatch is lying? So you're saying that he does not know what is going on in his state.

Maybe it was the oil procucing coal thing that I'm thinking of, but whatever the case may be, he was refering to being dependant on our Arab friends.


We have known about the oil in Alaska.

I don't want to have to spend one more red cent for gas that was produced in the Middle East or South America when all we need to do is develop our own sources. We must be out of our collective minds.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

You're right. I think it was the coal to oil thing.

We can have the lower price domestic if we develop our own sources.

 

[Nathan Flowers]

We don't want to develop our own sources. We have been capping oil wells left and right in the USA for the last 50 years. Some say it is because the Middle Easterners are/were selling it so cheap, though I'm not sure the exact reasons for it.

 

[jamespowers]

Let's build a car that does not need oil from Utah or Alaska or anywhere else and screw over all the oil barrons everywhere.

We have. Ever hear of the Stanley Steamer? The problem is they are no longer produced and you have to plan ahead half an hour before you use the car.

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

How about we increase our refining production here by streamlining the ten year process it takes to actually build a single refinery? The price always goes up when one refinery is down because no one is willing to spend the billions opf dollars to build a new refinery over the last nearly thirty years. There is one new one int he works but it is only eight years into the process and they have not even broken ground yet! :kick: Should it really take ten years to build a refinery? It makes no sense. Our refining capacity has in fact decreased over the last thrity years as some refineries have actually closed during that time. We might as well build up our infrastructure for energy production especially when we consider the China is as well as many of our enemies. Its about national security first and gas prices second.
The funny thing is that if we ever need the oil in a crisis, all of that red tape would disappear overnight and we would be drilling everywhere and refining everywhere. Why not just do a little exploring now with small footprint drilling and increase our refining capabilites. For now our military runs on oil. I would rather have a backup than try to catch up when it is needed desperately just as we had to during WWII because of the demilitarization that took place after WWII. No reserve meant we were losing at the beginning. Wars now will never last long enough for us to tool up and reignite our production might. Just think about it.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Bebop]

Bebop, why are you complaining about gas prices and dependence on oil if you drive such a huge truck?

Either get something that gets better mileage or quit complaining...

I didn't think that complaining about gas prices would elicit a "quit complaining" comment but I guess you never know who is out there reading these posts.
I drive a huge truck because of nessesity not because I like to complain . If I could get rid of my truck, I would. There are many people that need huge trucks that don't want them as first cars. The problem is that a truck that has power and does not use gallons and gallons of gas or deisel does not exist. When I don't need my truck, I drive a Honda that does not take $75 in the gas tank. By the way, if I quit complaining I could not enjoy your angry "quit comlaining" comments.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

We will not conserve...

And I will drive whatever I want.

Someone will invent/create/improve a new form of energy in my lifetime.

How do yo know the earth oil is finite, for all we know good ole' Mamma Earth is pumping oil out like a mother produces breast milk.

 

[jake431]

I am familiar with the rhetoric of "I want what I want and I want it now." I live with a two year old.

 

[jake431]

The problem remains, however, that the resources we are talking about are finite, and the amount of time they will last is measurable. The faster we pump and refine, the faster we run out. Will we run out in our lifetimes? Probably not in mine, but I'm pretty old now; your future might be at greater risk. The US is 11th in the world in terms of oil reserves, but first in terms of coal reserves, but the same problem still arises with coal, though on a slightly different time scale. The wise course for the long term would be to keep our oil for what we really need oil for, use coal where it can be used safely (I for one remember breathing the coal-smoke filled air in the winters as a youth, and I would not wish that on anyone), and use and improve already extant technologies (solar, hydroelectric, and wind power generation, hybrid automobile engines) as much as possible, and CONSERVE (yes, I do mean no more Hummers to take the kids to soccer). You need to do all of it, not just keep pumping and refining oil, if you are to plan wisely for the future. But when were American politicians, when was American business, when were the American people ever wise? Human nature has not changed at all, since the days we were gnawing on roots and berries and the old bones the hyenas left behind.

The problem with doing all of it is that it cuts into profits.

-Jake

 

[Brad Bowers]

What I don't understand is why people don't demand better gas mileage from automakers. Up until two years ago, I drove a '73 GMC 1/2 ton with a 350 V-8 that got 18 mpg on the highway. With advancements in technology in 30 years, you'd think today's full-size trucks would get far better gas mileage than a 30-year-old truck, but they really don't.

Right now, I drive an '87 Olds Calais, which gets 34-35 mpg highway, yet if I had to replace it, I'd have a hard time finding a new, decent mid-size car that gets that kind of mileage. I would like to have a hybrid, just to do my part to reduce emissions and save myself from giving money to the big gas companies, but they're going to be expensive for a while. I'm not sure they make a mid-size, at any rate. Haven't researched it, since I can't buy one.

Consumer demand currently seems to be for power and speed, two things for which I have absolutlely no use.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

The problem remains, however, that the resources we are talking about are finite, and the amount of time they will last is measurable. The faster we pump and refine, the faster we run out. Will we run out in our lifetimes? Probably not in mine, but I'm pretty old now; your future might be at greater risk. The US is 11th in the world in terms of oil reserves, but first in terms of coal reserves, but the same problem still arises with coal, though on a slightly different time scale. The wise course for the long term would be to keep our oil for what we really need oil for, use coal where it can be used safely (I for one remember breathing the coal-smoke filled air in the winters as a youth, and I would not wish that on anyone), and use and improve already extant technologies (solar, hydroelectric, and wind power generation, hybrid automobile engines) as much as possible, and CONSERVE (yes, I do mean no more Hummers to take the kids to soccer). You need to do all of it, not just keep pumping and refining oil, if you are to plan wisely for the future. But when were American politicians, when was American business, when were the American people ever wise? Human nature has not changed at all, since the days we were gnawing on roots and berries and the old bones the hyenas left behind.

Ah but you forget about the infitie resource known as nuclear power plants. A majority of the power used in France is nuclear power. The majority of ours is oil. I think it is time to think about that as well. Reducing that dependence would prolong our oil supply and reserves. The problem there is the same as refinery production---it will take ten years and probably will never happen because alarmists are sfraid of the "nuclear" in nuclear power.
Go ahead and drive a nice hybrid. Just don't complain to me when you have to spend $5,000-$8,000 when you have to replace the battery (usually within 5 years) and several thousand more at the initial outlay when you buy it. Cost benefit analysis---negative.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Waaaah!

Hey Jake, good one.

I bet you recycle. Did you know that Recycling Companies use energy to 'recycle', that energy comes from oil.