Light weight felt hats

[DOUGLAS]

Well done Art! The hat looks fabulous. I have become a big fan of the thin felt.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Thank you Douglas!! I am also a big fan. I wore a lightweight Borso from the 40s for so long that I rarely remembered it was on my head. Comfort +

 

[Mark G]

Art, that is simply lovely, thanks for posting the picture

 

[Zemke Fan]

Another winner, Art...

But, I want you to make me a Stratoliner repro in moss green and I suspect that this felt is too thin, isn't it?

 

[WEEGEE]

Crown label

MattC

On the liner issue, have you thought of a small piece in the center of the crown, the way Lee, Champ and Stetson used to do with some?

Art Fawcett

Matt, I have thought of using a tip sticker like the days of old but haven't gone down that road yet. It also takes time as the artwork, plate cut for printing, etc takes a bit of time. It definitely is on the table though.

I do like the way Borsalino did it on the light weights

and i can grasp the expense and time issues related to this avenue of the making.

I had a thought how feasible i can't guess but what about your signature heat branded into the crown ?

 

[MattC]

Signature in the Crown

That's an idea I like as well. Stetson used to do that with Playboys, and Borso still does it today with some of its roll up hats. Art, I know what you mean about that lightweight feel, the hat sitting up there and you forget about it. That would push me even further away from a liner (of course, you could always custom make without it, and sign like JP says--I'm serious). So I hope that LO problem works out.

 

[M_Jones]

I already had you figured for one JP.
Mr. Jones, what you are asking is the basic "end game" we are working on. Borsalino used to make a "traveling" hat that could be rolled up into a box, then "popped" out when arriving. They used an incredibly thin felt, liner, sweat to allow this but still had body enough to crease. That's the target here. With my heavier roan sweats, I don't think so. With the current liner I have, no. With the felt and it's apparent properties, absolutely yes. Now, durability, crushability, etc, I can't honestly answer till I get some of these in your hands and get the track record needed, but the felt gets no better so I have to believe it will do what we are asking.

BTW..after looking at the picture with fresher eyes I realized I misspoke on the dimensions. That is a 2 3/4" brim, not 2 1/2. Boy, I gotta get more sleep...

I see what you mean Mr. Fawcett. I have always wanted a fur felt fedora that I can roll/pack with absolutely no worries. Perhaps a 100% perfect fedora is a fantasy but I see these new bodies coming close. I want one regardless. I may be the only one but I think that I would prefer a hand signed liner over no liner or just a piece at the top. To me a liner is part of a hat. I am weird though.

 

[mingoslim]

The prototype is a beauty . . .

If you are able to get this project rolling this summer that will make 3 VS hats for me in one year . . . Whoowhee . . .

Mr. Fawcett . . . If I might make a few queries/suggestions as to your planning. Have you considered venting? I have seen some nice vintage summer weight felts that use venting, often in a pattern such as a diamond in the side or a circle in the crown, which I beleive adds to the hat "breathing" in the hot summer sun? What I do not know (but I am sure you do) is if these small holes damage the integrity of the felt, or weaken the hat over all . . .

I also would agree with those who suggested a minimal lining, or just a crown lining, if it was at all possible and cost effective.

Last . . . Like JP, I would ask about customizing our hats as to ribbon treatment? JP likes a taller ribbon, but I am a thin ribbon kind of guy.

One thing I do know . . . Whatever you decide in the end, it will be terrific!

 

[Art Fawcett]

Great suggestions Gentlemen!!! WeeGee I like the idea of burning the sig in but also like the idea of just the "top" of my liner being backsewn into an oval. I still am partial to the full liner but it has to be paper thin in order to work.
As for customizing, absolutely!! This prototype was custom made for Analogist who chose the dimensions, ribbon, etc and is allowing me to show it as one possibility for the felt. All other options are on the table as long as the felt allows it. I say that because I am working on the second of the two felts I have trying to get a raw edged hat from it and am having doubt's. I'm starting to believe that this will have to be a bound brim hat as it's SO thin that getting body into the brim is a bear. Binding will cure that.
Mingoslim, the venting does serve a purpose but I have no real data as to the felt integrity. My first instinct is that it does in fact damage it, but to what degree I don't know. For me, as the maker, my bigger issue is the placement and evenness of the vents. I had a conversation this week about it and had to point out that if you were to do your own venting and got it uneven or not perfectly placed it wouldn't be a big issue, heck, it's your hat. If I were to vent it and get it off somehow it would be a very big deal as the expectations are different, so I wouldnt do it or promise it until I have the system down bulletproof, and I don't. I've just been invited to a "hat workshop" later this summer so maybe I can gain more insght from there.


I hope I didn't miss any questions. Please know that this project is going forward ( felts were ordered yesterday) and as with my work at the beginning I see this only as the beginning of a work in progress. Through time and experiment we hope to get it right!! Ideas are always wecomed.

 

[DOUGLAS]

As shown by WEEGEE, This would seem to be a viable solution to having a liner or not. Personaly I like this look and having a full liner in a thin felted hat for me defeats the purpose of a thin hat. It would certainly save Art money on new art work and sticker. Even a branded logo will require some cost.

 

[Davidson]

Listening to this discussion is an education for me. Thanks to all.

Does having a bound edge reduce the potential to have a travel hat? I was interested in a lightweight summer felt, but the thought of a great travel hat was exciting!

How much do we have to all agree on the liner? If there can be a version sans liner, I'm for that, especially if it can come sooner. I assume I could always send the hat back 9 months later to have the perfected liner installed if I wanted it.

I'm more interested in progress on a sweat that allows for a packable hat.

As for the signature / emblem / artwork, I'm probably odd. I regard all such things as advertising (cars, clothes, whatever), and something for which I'd rather not bear the cost of development or production. Plain suits me.

I'm a 7 1/2 LO, so I have the same concern as a couple others, if I understand what is being said.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Good questions Davidson, I'll try to answer.
First, even Borsalino's travel hats were bound brim so that isn't the issue, but rather having enough body in the brim itself to hold the curve. I don't think the brim waving would be attractive for any hat. As for the timing. I have ordered the felts so should have them in Natural within 30 days, and I've ordered the thinest sweats that still meet the quality standards I need, again should be here in 30 days.
We don't have to agree on a liner at all so that's a non issue. I make truly customs so it's entirely your choice and yes, if a better plan comes together regarding liners at a later date it can be added.
LOL..my signature on this would be a felt tip pen on a blank liner. Other avenues will be explored but won't have any impact on the cost. That part is on me. What is important to some of my clients is that it be identified as one of mine. I use no gold embossing on my sweats, no huge advertising, just the best hat I can make.

As to the LO question, I am working on the second of the felts and so far I don't see that there will be a huge issue with LO. I expect to block some LOs before answering for sure, but I have faith.

 

[M_Jones]

All right Mr. Fawcett it is time to bug you yet again. Would you happen to have a rough date yet as to the grey bodies? Of course I would not mind a natural at all but I was just curious. Approximately how thin are these sweats? As I stated earlier I am fine with a hand signed liner, it works for me. If other options become available in the future then that is fine but if people don't like a liner then it can be removed. I am happy to see that the ball is rolling so fast without me having to kick it.

Regards,
Hollis

 

[Art Fawcett]

LOL...Kick away Mr. Jones, kick away!!! I can't answer for the greys. I CAN answer that the naturals are promised to me within 30 days. Beyond that is entirely up to my felter.

note to self...bring hard hat and tush pad next time I log on...

 

[cooncatbob]

Art: I'm intrigued by the stripped ribbon on your proto-type hat. What other treasures are in your hoard? lol Have you other stripped ribbons? I'm interested in something that will stand out from the natural color of the hat. Is the natural the same as the natural color sample of the heavier felt?
I believe you've answered my original question of what was up on the light weight hat front. Seems like the beginning of a seasonal trend, light hats for summer then back to the regular weight hats for fall and winter.
Bob.

 

[Art Fawcett]

I have quite a few vintage stripes Bob that we can play with at the right time for your hat. And yes, the felt color samples you have are the same but this is a lighter weight.
I hope you are right about the lighter summer felts in the future. Like any other business the felt company wants to see it happen before investing alot in the bodies. I can see him stocking 6 or 8 colors in the future if Gary, myself, and other custom makers can develop the market. I'm sure it's there so it's a matter of proving it now and being consistent with what we do.

 

[Davidson]

There won't be any price break for me or Gary as the body is more labor intensive than in the normal weight and Gregs concern was that there were more blemished felts from this process than normal. I've agreed to absorb some of the blemishes in order to get the good ones made so maybe I can use some of them to offer a discount rate ( depending on the blemish) so nobody will be losing money in this.

Last question from me, and thanks for all the responses:
What types of blemishes in felt bodies do you see? If it is only color variations in a natural finish, I would still be interested in that. I guess the beaver didn't mind, and I wouldn't either.

 

[Art Fawcett]

More good questions Sir,
There are any number of blemishes from small "pits" in the felt, to undyed hairs ( on the dyed colors) but the most common are "thin spots". Please know that although I have been invited to the plant to go through the felting process with them I haven't been able to do so , so I can only answer through my conversations with the plant mgr., not first hand experience. During the felting process the hoods are made sized ( only 3 basic sizes), then just before "inspection" they are run through a pouncing machine (sanding) to give the initial surface that we work with as a starting point. The machines are set up expecting a certain "tension" from the felts and thus don't sand too far into the felt. By making the felt thinner the tension is off and the felt tends to "roll" during this process which is what nightmares are made of. It only takes a nanosecond of incorrect sanding on an ultra thin body to have a flaw. ( read that as "junk") Greg has expressed this concern and in concept I understand but will take a trip to Tennessee to truly understand.
As for the color? Natural always seems to be a mottled color to start with which is one of it's beauty's. The natural varigatoin of color is just that, natural, so in this color that wouldn't be a problem.

 

[ideaguy]

Mr. F: you've done it again! Please consider me for a 7 3/8 LO in a Natural,
and I wouldn't mind if it had a few "character marks"...I'd be very interested in
looking at possible ribbon choices when the time is right.
By the response shown,I think a wise business decision has already been made-
congratulations on this venture, and you deserve all the good luck and business
that can come your way. Thanks for being such a solid inspiration!

 

[MattC]

More on the liner

Just one more word (ha)....I am a fan of liners in general, and didn't much like hats without them. Until, that is, I got an old Champ lightweight, and found I really could wear it in 80 degree weather. Keep the liners for Fall, Winter and Spring...a good summer felt is better without. I do like the little liner or pad just at the top....but a fully lined hat is just hotter.