Lets talk about hat shrinkage

[truffaux]

I deal with this an awful lot in my everyday life as a hatmaker and no one really talks about it.
Every hat will end up shrinking in the end - so when you order one, makes sure it has a little extra room to allow for this, insert a foam spacer and then all will be well.
Panama hats shrink pretty quickly - I notice it after two weeks. Often as they cure on the shelves, they will adjust be 1-3cm depending on the weave. Fresh hats are less predictable.
Felts with leather bands can take years, but it is hastened by leaving your hat in the sun or heating (parcel shelf, air conditioning, heaters etc). The felt shrinks a bit, but it is the stupid leather bands that cause all the trouble.
I have seen hats where the leather band has become completely flat with the brim - so a 60cm became a 45cm!!!!!
I have owned hundreds of vintage hats and very few that are true to size.
Have a look here and you will get the idea :

https://www.truffaux.com/blogs/panama-hat-advice/why-do-panama-hats-shrink

Good luck

Oska

 

[belfastboy]

I deal with this an awful lot in my everyday life as a hatmaker and no-one really talks about it.
Every hat will end up shrinking in the end - so when you order one, makes sure it has a little extra room to allow for this and then all will be well.
Panama hats shrink pretty quickly - I notice it after two weeks.
Felts with leather bands can take years, but it is hastened by leaving your hat in the sun or heating (parcel shelf, air conditioning, heaters etc). I have seen hats where the leather band has become completely flat with the brim - so a 60cm became a 45cm!!!!!
I have owned hundreds of vintage hats and never seen one that is true to size.
Have a look here and you will get the idea :

https://www.truffaux.com/blogs/panama-hat-advice/why-do-panama-hats-shrink

Good luck

Oska

I use band blocks when the hat is not in use. That helps a great deal.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I’ve owned hundreds of vintage hats too. Several have been larger than tagged and most have been very close to true to size, and a few have been smaller than labeled. I don’t know their past so I can imagine some were worn by larger headed men who stretched them a bit and maybe that accounts for those measuring larger than sized? There is variation, but I’ve been mostly impressed that my vintage hats have been true to size (or very close). I’m fact, if the hats are from the 1940s or earlier the more confidence I have that they will fit true to size. Odd, but I find the most shrinkage problems from my more recent vintage hats.

There is, and always has been, discrepancies on sizing. New hats made by the same company or the same custom hat maker often fit differently even when made on the same block. Sometimes the differences can be significant.

 

[Happy]

This is an informative post for us (me) new hat owners. My 1st felt hat was purchased several decades ago and no longer has a leather band. However, my new felt hat is being used as an outdoor work hat and is getting a lot of sweat. I want it to form to my head shape but not shrink.

Is the band block the same as a hat stretcher but not used to stretch but hold a size?

 

[belfastboy]

This is an informative post for us (me) new hat owners. My 1st felt hat was purchased several decades ago and no longer has a leather band. However, my new felt hat is being used as an outdoor work hat and is getting a lot of sweat. I want it to form to my head shape but not shrink.

Is the band block the same as a hat stretcher but not used to stretch but hold a size?

Yes, a hat jack will work fine. A band block if cut to the actual shape of your head's circumference is a step up. But a hat jack works if set to your size. They don't work great at stretching a hat out unless it is just to nudge it out a very very small amount.

Jacks tend to shape the hat as a long oval as it enlarges north to south and not east to west. So if you are a long oval they work very well. A jig saw and a sander and a band block is not hard to make.

 

[Happy]

After I asked i did a quick web search and see what you mean. Thank you for bring this up and for the further explanation. My head is standard oval but with a flat spot at the very front of the oval.
There is a thread on this site of a person who called their head shape "egg shaped". They made a custom stretcher to form the hat.

I have a few wood worker skills so may try to form a block to my head shape. As you mentioned the stretcher would make the front forehead part more long oval. Thanks for point that out. i don't need any more oval at that place.

 

[belfastboy]

After I asked i did a quick web search and see what you mean. Thank you for bring this up and for the further explanation. My head is standard oval but with a flat spot at the very front of the oval.
There is a thread on this site of a person who called their head shape "egg shaped". They made a custom stretcher to form the hat.

I have a few wood worker skills so may try to form a block to my head shape. As you mentioned the stretcher would make the front forehead part more long oval. Thanks for point that out. i don't need any more oval at that place.

Few of us are exact models.....I am an egg shape. Long Ovals fit me best but I am not a classic long oval. I made a hat for a client a few weeks back and it was a bitch to fit.. She had a broad back of the head that narrowed considerable beginning at the temples. I finally got it right but I did have moments of despair. Use a carpenter's Flex Curve to get an exact model of your head shape. $10-$15 on Amazon/Ebay. They work almost as well as the much more expensive conformateurs.

 

[Frunobulax]

I’ve owned hundreds of vintage hats too. Several have been larger than tagged and most have been very close to true to size, and a few have been smaller than labeled. I don’t know their past so I can imagine some were worn by larger headed men who stretched them a bit and maybe that accounts for those measuring larger than sized? There is variation, but I’ve been mostly impressed that my vintage hats have been true to size (or very close). I’m fact, if the hats are from the 1940s or earlier the more confidence I have that they will fit true to size. Odd, but I find the most shrinkage problems from my more recent vintage hats.

There is, and always has been, discrepancies on sizing. New hats made by the same company or the same custom hat maker often fit differently even when made on the same block. Sometimes the differences can be significant.

^^^^^What he said^^^^^^

 

[Happy]

I was trying my 12 inch contour gauge and wondering how to accurately connect the forehead shape to my back head shape to make a solid block. Voilà That $9 item should be just the tool for this job.
Great tip thanks!

 

[shopkin]

The thing about those conforming tape measures is that the actual tape measure part is embedded almost 0.3 centimeters from the outer primeter. Then, you have to figure out what to do with the overlap. When you narrow the diameter by 0.3 cm you decrease the circumference by about 1 cm.

I use a piece of 12 ga. copper wire to conform and them measure the outside perimeter with a regular fiberglass taylors tape.

 

[Happy]

I will try that today. I'm getting smarter with every suggestion!!!
Thanks

 

[truffaux]

I use band blocks when the hat is not in use. That helps a great deal.

I have done so too - but it is a pain doing it.

 

[truffaux]

I’ve owned hundreds of vintage hats too. Several have been larger than tagged and most have been very close to true to size, and a few have been smaller than labeled. I don’t know their past so I can imagine some were worn by larger headed men who stretched them a bit and maybe that accounts for those measuring larger than sized? There is variation, but I’ve been mostly impressed that my vintage hats have been true to size (or very close). I’m fact, if the hats are from the 1940s or earlier the more confidence I have that they will fit true to size. Odd, but I find the most shrinkage problems from my more recent vintage hats.

There is, and always has been, discrepancies on sizing. New hats made by the same company or the same custom hat maker often fit differently even when made on the same block. Sometimes the differences can be significant.

You are right about the much older hats - all the ones I have from the 40's to 60's hold their true size. I think it is because they have been stored in hat boxes - which is the only way a hat really survives that long. The ones I have hanging on my wall, are all shrunk.

 

[truffaux]

I use band blocks when the hat is not in use. That helps a great deal.

I have a couple of band blocks - but i have 100's of hats. Stacking isn't good for them, but room is always a problem.
The reality is that if your using hat jacks and band blocks, you really bought a hat that was a bit small. If they are vintage then fair enough, but new it is just poor planning. Having a little spare room is always the easiest solution - pop in a couple of foam pads and let the hat shrink in. Then all is welll when you take them out - it stabilises

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I have a couple of band blocks - but i have 100's of hats. Stacking isn't good for them, but room is always a problem.
The reality is that if your using hat jacks and band blocks, you really bought a hat that was a bit small. If they are vintage then fair enough, but new it is just poor planning. Having a little spare room is always the easiest solution - pop in a couple of foam pads and let the hat shrink in. Then all is welll when you take them out - it stabilises

I just don’t think a lot of us have had the shrinkage problems you seem to have had. I have new custom made hats from several hatters and my experiences don’t match yours. I have hats stored in hats in boxes, on shelves, and on hooks: I’ve only noticed shrinking on a couple: mainly Akubras, but I can’t say I’ve noticed any on my custom hats.

The majority of my vintage hats have not come with hat boxes. I don’t know their pasts, but I suspect most were not stored in proper hat boxes.

If I were to order a custom ht that required shims or foam pads for it to fit right I’d send the hat back. I might tolerate it on an inexpensive Akubra, but not on a custom hat. I’m not trying to pick a fight, but I don’t think your experiences match mine or others here. Maybe it’s the differences in environment or some other variable(s)?

 

[belfastboy]

I have a couple of band blocks - but i have 100's of hats. Stacking isn't good for them, but room is always a problem.
The reality is that if your using hat jacks and band blocks, you really bought a hat that was a bit small. If they are vintage then fair enough, but new it is just poor planning. Having a little spare room is always the easiest solution - pop in a couple of foam pads and let the hat shrink in. Then all is welll when you take them out - it stabilises

I only have about 75 hats....all of them worn..no closet queens. It is a mixture of vintage, modern and contemporary customs (made by other hatters and self). I first used a band block that master hatter Art Fawcett included with my first custom from him. I find it comes in handy inside my vintage Borsalinos to keep their shape as they do tend to be on the smaller side of their noted size tag. I also have a few contemporary hats that interested me and I picked them up even though they are regular oval in shape not my preferred long oval. They help to conform the hat to a shape that feels better on my head.

So by all means post what works for you but I suggest you hesitate in posting statements that while possibly applying to you do not apply as universal absolutes.

 

[jlee562]

all the ones I have from the 40's to 60's hold their true size

Not withstanding everything else in the post about the sizing of vintage hats....

The "vintage" most of us care about is 60's and earlier.

If we are talking a "vintage" 1980's hat, sure, I would not be surprised if a 'genuine leather' sweatband shrunk up. But I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of the FL regulars are not here to document and collect 70's and 80's hats.

 

[Mighty44]

I have to agree with most of the voices here—I’ve had no experience with shrinkage except with one new Stetson i had in the nineties that got completely soaked in a rainstorm one night and was forever after just a little too tight. I’m always amazed at how reliably right-sized most vintage era hats are and stay true year after year.

 

[truffaux]

I just don’t think a lot of us have had the shrinkage problems you seem to have had. I have new custom made hats from several hatters and my experiences don’t match yours. I have hats stored in hats in boxes, on shelves, and on hooks: I’ve only noticed shrinking on a couple: mainly Akubras, but I can’t say I’ve noticed any on my custom hats.

The majority of my vintage hats have not come with hat boxes. I don’t know their pasts, but I suspect most were not stored in proper hat boxes.

If I were to order a custom ht that required shims or foam pads for it to fit right I’d send the hat back. I might tolerate it on an inexpensive Akubra, but not on a custom hat. I’m not trying to pick a fight, but I don’t think your experiences match mine or others here. Maybe it’s the differences in environment or some other variable(s)?

It is possible that it is weather related - I live in a land of extreme hot and cold weather. It is also probably because most of my hats are Panamas and they are more prone to shrinkage. My European hats are pretty consistent - the main issue tends to be with the leather inserts in my customers hats. Mostly they are Akubras, but I just see so many of them - admittedly these people use their hats for hard work over long periods of time. They are not collectors, they are consumers.
Maybe that is it. Do you wear the same hat every day for 20 years? They do.

 

[truffaux]

I just don’t think a lot of us have had the shrinkage problems you seem to have had. I have new custom made hats from several hatters and my experiences don’t match yours. I have hats stored in hats in boxes, on shelves, and on hooks: I’ve only noticed shrinking on a couple: mainly Akubras, but I can’t say I’ve noticed any on my custom hats.

The majority of my vintage hats have not come with hat boxes. I don’t know their pasts, but I suspect most were not stored in proper hat boxes.

If I were to order a custom ht that required shims or foam pads for it to fit right I’d send the hat back. I might tolerate it on an inexpensive Akubra, but not on a custom hat. I’m not trying to pick a fight, but I don’t think your experiences match mine or others here. Maybe it’s the differences in environment or some other variable(s)?

I think the answer lies in the amount of usage the hats get - most Australians will wear the same hat for 20 years - they are not collecting them. We also have a strange fixation on wearing rabbit fur hats (Akubras) in 100 degree weather. I don't think anyone else in the world would be that crazy - they get very sweaty, then dry out quickly.
I see 80 year old hats, and they are really shrunken - sometimes five sizes - ex-military in particular.