let's have dialogue with hat companies

[danofarlington]

No doubt this idea has previously been considered and rejected at some level by The Fedora Lounge, but why not invite representatives of the hat companies to make a statement every now and then about their company's new offerings, history, observations on trends in the industry, and so on? You could invite them for periodic brief statements, and maybe a little Q&A. I for one would like to hear from them, and would welcome the chance to provide them with feedback, even I suppose if they ignored it. Given the good will here toward the hat manufacturers, I would think the membership would like to see that. As it is, the hat companies sometimes seem out of touch with demand, which could be effectively reflected in part by the 14,000 members of the forum. I suppose there is a thread somewhere detailing the failed history of this idea at some point in the past, but if so I am unaware of it and propose it herewith as "a new idea."

 

[barrowjh]

There is a Hatco representative that monitors the site, and as you go more towards the retail, Bencraft, The Fedora Store, and I'm sure there are others that monitor from time to time. I think we are just too small a niche to be a credible 'demand' on the manufacturers such as Hatco and Beaver Brand. We want, we want, and we talk, we talk, but when it comes time to lay out some coin, we turn out to be mostly hot air. Steven (Bencraft) tried to get together a group to order a Stetson re-make last year, and I'm not sure he ever really got enough demand to order more than one dozen hats (well, maybe two). We are so darned picky and snooty we cannot agree on what we want, even though we universally praise just about every new hat shown here.

 

[gtdean48]

Don't listen to JB! He's been known to communicate with any old stray that will come up on the porch!!!

 

[RBH]

Don't listen to JB! He's been known to communicate with any old stray that will come up on the porch!!!

lol lol lol

Here he is in action....

 

[RBH]

All kidding aside. Hatco has been great to let us in on a few things and also to listen to a lot of what we have had to say.

 

[CRH]

Don't listen to JB! He's been known to communicate with any old stray that will come up on the porch!!!

Good thing I don't allow old stray photographers on my porch!

 

[danofarlington]

We want, we want, and we talk, we talk, but when it comes time to lay out some coin, we turn out to be mostly hot air. Steven (Bencraft) tried to get together a group to order a Stetson re-make last year, and I'm not sure he ever really got enough demand to order more than one dozen hats (well, maybe two).

I guess it should not be a consumer's group, or a buying block, but at least a something that has a little clout. I mean, if their customers aren't here, where are the companies going to find them? They ought to thank their lucky stars on a daily basis that there is a Fedora Lounge to promote their products. So there should be motivation on their side. Maybe the right thing is to have some forums and give and take then with the companies. They could write a short piece from time to time for the Lounge, or be available for some Q&A. After I heard that the Lounge has 14,000 people listed (could that be right?), I thought to myself that has got to be the largest hat group in the world this side of the Chinese Army. I would be interested to invite them for occasional written presentations, because I don't think that they are so good at responding to latent demand. But, all just my opinion.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Hi, Dan,

Yup, we've got close to 14,000 members in the Lounge, but don't forget that not all of them are interested in hats!

JB has noted some salient points-as potential customers of current hat manufacturers we don't have quite as much potential as you might think though we are pretty good at promoting hat wearing by setting an example. I observed once before in another thread that comparatively speaking it's fairly rare for any of us to announce we've purchased a new hat as opposed to vintage. The exceptions to that are custom made hats and Akubra hats. Most new hats purchased from other manufacturers tend to be purchased at the Hatco discount outlets!

You may have a point, though. Attitudes towards new hats (especially Stetson) have softened a bit recently, and I think that does have a lot to do with Hatco being here to share information and to take our comments back to the shop, so to speak. To read some earlier threads you couldn't get most guys around here to buy a new Stetson or Borsalino on a bet--not when you can get a higher-quality vintage hat for less, or for a little bit more a 100% beaver hat custom-made. There does seem to be a growing consensus that Hatco's offerings are improving but there still isn't a rush to go out and pay retail for a new Stetson. (I know, some have done it--but our overall focus is still on vintage or custom.)

Personally, I think Hatco was a brave guy for signing up and making himself known what with all the negative comments about Hatco products here. That he was enthusiastically welcomed does indicate that we are indeed eager for hat companies to hear our views. The fact remains that we are somewhat of a niche marketing group for the large companies. I wouldn't be surprised if Dorfman-Pacific has people monitoring this site (or I could just have a puffed-up idea of how important our opinions are! lol ) but they're doing fairly well with selling to their target audience-and we're not it.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[JimWagner]

There may be more new hat buying than what appears here. Given the negative attitude shown about certain brands in this forum I certainly wouldn't announce that I'd just bought a new Stetson or other brand put down here and open myself up to a bunch of negative comments about my choice.

 

[Mr. Paladin]

There is a Hatco representative that monitors the site, and as you go more towards the retail, Bencraft, The Fedora Store, and I'm sure there are others that monitor from time to time. I think we are just too small a niche to be a credible 'demand' on the manufacturers such as Hatco and Beaver Brand. We want, we want, and we talk, we talk, but when it comes time to lay out some coin, we turn out to be mostly hot air. Steven (Bencraft) tried to get together a group to order a Stetson re-make last year, and I'm not sure he ever really got enough demand to order more than one dozen hats (well, maybe two). We are so darned picky and snooty we cannot agree on what we want, even though we universally praise just about every new hat shown here.

John is right on the money here. Some of us buy only vintage, others only custom, a few buy only new, and some mix and match. Styles vary tremendously from person to person. I doubt if we have enough consensus to provide a sales base to prod any manufacturer.

I will say however, that I have bought quite a few dress hats from the Hatco Outlet in Garland. I like them, I wear them, and I post them here often. I have met HATCO at the factory and he is a great guy. He monitors more than you think and has provided us with some insight into the state of Stetson manufacturing and corporate decision making. I have more vintage hats but there are more varied styles of them.

 

[Feraud]

I think we are just too small a niche to be a credible 'demand' on the manufacturers such as Hatco and Beaver Brand. We want, we want, and we talk, we talk, but when it comes time to lay out some coin, we turn out to be mostly hot air.

Right.. unless we are talking vintage Whippets on Ebay.

 

[awest84532]

I agree with Jim. I have been hesitant to jump in with much about my Stetson's. I love my Fed IV's, but like my Temple and Chathams even more.

 

[gtdean48]

No kidding this time. I own vintage, custom & new factory = all over the board. I have a Stetson Pinnacle & Road Master that I like & wear accordingly. The Road Master catches the most noggin time cause of my normally casual style. The Pinnacle is fairly dressy but it was bought for that. I have quite a few Akubras, mostly Campdrafts, because they are what an Open Road was & I think should be. I will say the modern Stetsons can't hold a candle style-wize to the vintage ones I own like the Stratoliner, the Casual (now RBH's), the Wanderer, the Open Road styled 100 & 25. You have to go custom to get that look & feel IMHO.

 

[tonyb]

... The fact remains that we are somewhat of a niche marketing group for the large companies. I wouldn't be surprised if Dorfman-Pacific has people monitoring this site (or I could just have a puffed-up idea of how important our opinions are! lol ) but they're doing fairly well with selling to their target audience-and we're not it.

Cheers,
Tom

That's the gist of it. "Proper" hats, even the (relatively) mass-produced ones, are a niche themselves, and the higher quality hats in styles more appealing to many of the people who frequent this site are a small niche within that niche.

This is all fine by me, though. It has been suggested that we here long for the return of the fedora to Joe Everyman's wardrobe. (I recall a link to a magazine article saying that very thing.) I say that's assuming an awful lot.

 

[Fletch]

There's a problem with trying to talk to factory makers (even small ones). We, the retail consumers, are not really their customers. They sell to dealers, and dealers have to do what keeps them in business. That means catering to a base, not to individuals or even small groups of individuals.

This is a very traditional craft industry, where you don't interact with the public - and especially don't educate the public, who may be gathering info for your competitors. Whether that is still valid is secondary; it's established behavior.

Some makers might profit from learning direct sales, but most probably wouldn't dream of doing it because the way things are done now influences all their thinking - even the way they might run the numbers on a forecast model.

It sounds stupid, but sometimes, a traditional industry will sooner die off than change its business model. There's a possibility of that happening in hats.

If quality hats remain a niche, that's OK in terms of customer responsiveness, but I think they eventually run the risk of being priced out of more and more people's reach. Making anything never gets less expensive over time.

 

[mayserwegener]

I agree with Jim. I have been hesitant to jump in with much about my Stetson's. I love my Fed IV's, but like my Temple and Chathams even more.

I am certainly not part of the group think. I enjoy seeing all types of hat styles be it modern or vintage. The quality of modern production vs vintage hats is another story.

 

[Bill Greene]

There may be more new hat buying than what appears here. Given the negative attitude shown about certain brands in this forum I certainly wouldn't announce that I'd just bought a new Stetson or other brand put down here and open myself up to a bunch of negative comments about my choice.

Sadly, this is fact.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Wow. It didn't even occur to me that some might feel that way. I know I've avidly read any comments from those who have bought new hats, and I think there's been a trend in observed improved quality, especially with Stetson.

Still, I stand by my assertion that vintage hat purchases far exceed those of new hat purchases by the members here.

Regards,
Tom

 

[tonyb]

If a person likes his modern Stetson or Borsalino or whatever, that's fine by me. Hope he gets a lot of use out of it.

And I certainly hope he doesn't take personal offense if anyone here offers the opinion that the run of modern Stetsons and Borsalinos or whatever are no great shakes, seeing how those are, after all, just opinions, albeit generally well-informed ones.

But dang it, this a forum for hat aficionados. We're a well-behaved bunch around here, and we're generally mindful of people's feelings. But there's nothing necessarily ill-mannered in those well-informed people offering a less than favorable view of what they consider a less than stellar product.

If I visited a forum for cowboy boot crazies, I'd fully expect to read about how my Ariats aren't much of a boot. That wouldn't keep me from wearing them. And I bet if I spent a little time there I would learn what to look for in their replacements.

 

[Woodfluter]

I'm certainly not about to slam anyone for choosing a modern production hat! I'd always like to hear the pros and cons - it always comes down to cost and various benefits.

More on topic, sure we're an insignificant and incredibly picky slice of the customer base and yeah, manufacturers are primarily dealing with dealers. And most manufacturers might be missing what I'm going to say. But...

Influence matters. I do see more guys wearing hats (some young gals too). Mostly not fine hats. If the manufacturers want to stay in the business of making fine hats (broadly defined, as opposed to fabric trilbys made in China) they need to get more people (1) wearing and appreciating something better in the way of hats, and (2) wanting more than one hat. It's a question of survival I think.

So we're just a lonely few. But if the curious person wants to find out more, what do they do? "Let's see, they're called fedoras aren't they? I'll Google fedora..." and guess what comes up. They might never become members. But they get an inkling, a seed that may be planted and sprout later, bit by bit.

Not to mention all those who see us wearing hats, and with whom we talk.

So I think that smart manufacturer reps, like Hatco undoubtedly is, really do have a stake in talking to us. I sense some synergy here.

- Bill