Leather vs. Gore-Tex - Style vs. Function?

[Fenton]

We all love leather jackets; and we'd probably all agree that they are more stylish than most Gore-Tex jackets designed for outdoor activities. But are leather jackets on a par with the functionality and comfort of modern outdoor jackets? Or do we simply wear them because they're fashionable?

I'm asking this because I've always found that leather jackets are both more functional and stylish than their Gore-Tex counterparts. While most of the so called outdoor jackets I've owned failed on hiking trips (e.g. in terms of water and wind resistance) I've never had problems with leather jackets (horse and goat) under similar conditions.

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts/opinions!

Fenton

 

[1911 Man]

The Gore-Tex product is of course sold to many manufacturers who use it in their own products. Cabelas and Danner both make boots that utilize Gore-Tex liners. I suppose that there is a difference between one manufacturer and another, despite both using Gore-Tex liners, one will be better made. I have several boots and coats that use Gore-tex fabrics, and all have held up very well in extreme weather. I have a Gore-Tex coat I use for very cold weather hunting because it is well insulated and keeps me dry, its a Cabelas coat. I have worn leather jackets in the field, and yes they do hold up extremely well, but I think Gore-tex will keep you dry longer than leather, and most leather jackets aren't extremely well insulated. My Aero Barnstormer would probably do fine in harsher climes, but as I paid $700 for it, and my Cabelas coat was only $150 on clearance, I haven't tested my Aero on a hunting trip yet...
Don't know if I will

 

[Fenton]

thanks for posting our opinion! I agree, Gore-Tex textiles do seem to have a better cost-usability ratio. However, I've aways made the experience that the jackets of big companies (e.g. Schöffel, VauDe) do not always hold up to what is promised ... even with care they tend to show poor performance in harsh climes after initial wear. Perhaps, I was just unlucky, but given my previous experiences I'd rather trust a sturdy horsehide jacket than Gore-Tex.

 

[Lone_Ranger]

Playing Devil's Advocate for a minute.

Say, for outdoor use, like hiking, a leather jacket is a lot heavier, and a lot more bulky that a comparable "modern" material. You want to shave as much weight as possible. You can't roll up the leather jacket and stick it in your rucksack like you could Gore-Tex.

Only two "cons" that I can think of.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Most of my hiking has been in the Rockies. Love it out in Wyoming. The thing with the synthetics, Gore-Tex among them, isn't necessarily that they are water-PROOF. NO matter what the claims, I don't believe anything I can wear hiking is really water-PROOF, so I never expect to not get wet when I'm out there. But I do count on Gore-Tex and other synthetics to breath and dry fast. They wick moisture away from the body. Also, even when wet many of the synthetic clothing still have good insulating properties. This is very important in certain circumstances where getting soaked and staying that way would be very dangerous.

I love my leather jackets. I have 15 leather jackets - and I live in FLORIDA! I know that leather wearing natives and American pioneers made do with it and lived, for the most part. But I'd only wear a leather jacket or jeans or cotton, etc. on a dry day hike where I'm not going too far out in the danger zone.

Careful.

 

[feltfan]

I think Gore-Tex, polyester fleece, and nylon jackets are one
of the worst scourges of modern life. Yech. Plastic. I do own
a nylon Mountain Hardware windbreaker (which a friend gave
me from the "free" pile at Mountain Hardware) and a Gore-Tex
REI rain jacket. They are useful when walking the dog because
I expect water, mud, and potentially even situations where the
jacket could be ripped. I sure wouldn't get near open flame with
one of those things on!

Plastic is disposable. There won't be a forum on vintage plastic
jackets 50 years from now. Unfortunately, plastic is not
biodegradable, so those jackets, torn and useless, will all
be in landfill somewhere forever.

Yeah, leather can be costly and it can be heavy, if you are
thinking of what to wear on rainy days or in the wilderness.
Here's my suggestion: wool. It resists water, it keeps you warm
even if you get wet (water won't melt you), and it breathes
better than Gore-Tex. It is, or at least has been, available in
a zillion weaves, each with its own virtues. There is no shortage
of used and vintage wool jackets and shirts. It's renewable,
biodegradable, and fashionable.

 

[Creeping Past]

Wool is good. Cotton can be useful, too.

See this Hillwalking thread, the Adventurer's Gear thread and one on A coat for hillwalking for more detailed discussion on this subject.

 

[Erik]

I prefer leather jackets, find myself wearing them as often as possible, hope to acquire more and more and... you get the idea. But, and with all of that said, they cannot compete afield in terms of versatility and functionality with modern technical jackets. Fortunately, life isn't an "all or nothing" affair and we've options.

 

[GHQ1]

Naturally the way to go

For my part I double track clothing -- sets of wool, silk and leather . . . .and sets of synthetics (for when I schlep all my own gear sans a sherpa) . . . I use an eVent jacket and it does IMO breathe better under endurance than any gore item I've had . . .

yet still if you went with fine merino, leather, waxed cotton and ventile you could conquer most environments . . . .Or even if you went with military surplus . . .some of the Euro stuff is surprisingly well made . . We've all seen MINT Swedish wool from WW2 . .and it still keeps coming!

Some of the finest hiking boots in the world (German, Italian, Swiss) are just simple layers of leather and arguably as waterproof and perhaps better regulating than the current crop of Gore Tex lined ones . . . .



I always enjoy rereading the following article - the sum and substance is that natural fabrics breathe and move with you . . . . (viz George on Seinfeld on getting the Yankees to wear cotton jersies -- they breathe, baby!)


"Mallory's Clothing Could Have Climbed Everest...
By Charles Ross

Last week we told you about the project to produce exact replicas of the clothing worn by Mallory and Irvine on the 1924 Everest expedition and test its effectiveness - was it as poor as many people think and would the multiple layers - seven of them - have allowed enough mobility for technical climbing?

Well, the results were unveiled at last week's Clothing For Extremes conference at Rheged and OM contributor and industry insider Charles Ross was there to report back. He takes up the story..."

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/3517/v/1/

Update to orig article and photos of kit -- http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/4151

 

[Creeping Past]

I'm with you on the natural fabrics and the surplus, GHQ1.

However................."some of the Euro stuff is surprisingly well made"..........

I don't use the internet phrases ROFL or PML, so will have to suffice.

L'USA, ce n'est pas le monde.

 

[avedwards]

In terms of hats, if I wanted 100% waterproof and an umbrella was not compatible, I would wear a German or Austrian loden hat (speciallised thickened wool felt) as these are completely waterproof (water just rolls off) and I have heard them get called gore-tex before. They do have the disadvantage that they are not very good in warm weather though, as they are so thick (hence they are common in the Alps where it isn't very warm).

What has this got to do with coats? My father has a loden coat which I wear very often (he doesn't mind) and this too is completely waterproof. So if you live in a cold enough climate I would advise a loden coat to be best, even if it may be horrendously expensive, as it will last (my father's is at least 30 years old).

 

[Creeping Past]

Yes, Loden's great. Filson wool garments are similar. My Filson wool cruiser keeps me warm and dry even in heavy rain.

 

[Fenton]

thanks for the lively discussion! Having read your messages I'm keen on finding out more about wool garments and their outdoor usability. My main interest still lies in leather jackets but wool jackets do seem to provide interesting alternatives. I went through the 'hillwalking' thread on this forum and found some interesting links to very nice jackets .... check out this one

http://www.filson.com/product/index...2&doVSearch=no&pageBucket=0&parentPage=family

filson appears to be great ... IMO a little expensive though

 

[Tomasso]

I'm with you on the natural fabrics and the surplus, GHQ1.

However................."some of the Euro stuff is surprisingly well made"..........

I don't use the internet phrases ROFL or PML, so will have to suffice.

L'USA, ce n'est pas le monde.

He was referring to military surplus goods, which can be shoddily made.

 

[Creeping Past]

On reading again, I see what you mean, Tomasso. I suppose I read it differently initially because I'm used to good surplus stuff and I'm never overly surprised by its quality. I was more surprised at the OP's surprise.

Most of the UK, Swedish and Swiss vintage surplus items (40s, 50s and 60s) I've got are far from shoddy, and I'm not aware that vintage surplus kit from these countries at least has a reputation for shoddiness. 'Surplus' covers a range of conditions, but that's a separate matter.

Do you have examples of shoddy vintage surplus kit from UK, Sweden or Switzerland, for example? Outside war time stuff, that is.

 

[blacklagoon]

I have a berghaus trango xcr jacket and a pair of sprayway mountain rainpants.They are light enough to get on and off quick,and don't bulk out my rucksack.I also have a 100% merino wool cagoul jacket,which is lovely to wear.

 

[1911 Man]

Now I will chime in again. In 1997 I bought a pair of Swedish wool cargo pants from my local military surplus store. I have worn those pants for several hours in knee to waist deep snow, when the temp was below 0 Farenheit. I had on some fantastic thermals underneath, but no other layers on my legs. I had killed an elk, cleaned it, and dragged it out (I had help), but it was several hours. The pants were soaked, but I never got cold. I have worn those pants on several more cold weather hunts. Wool is amazing.

BTW. I paid $16 for those pants, and still have them. I am very happy with my investment.

But back to leather, I have worn my A2 on hunting trips where it was cool to cold, but dry. I really liked wearing it, it holds up very well in rough terrain, and makes me feel old fashioned.

 

[Erik]

The Swedish pants with the built in gaiters (or whatever they are called) and buckles on the bottom? If so, I've several pairs. They're great; especially for the price.

 

[ron521]

There was a time when leather was the ultimate material for the shell of a garment to be worn in extreme climates, windproof, abrasion resistant, and almost water proof, these are all good things.

Unfortunately, leather is quite heavy, and when wet, takes a long time to dry.
Modern materials equal leather in terms of wind and water resistance, if not abrasion resistance, with far less weight. And when wet, they dry faster.

So most serious adventurers, mountain climbers, scientists who explore Antarctica, glaciers, etc, choose modern materials.

So, what is best depends on what your criteria are: If abrasion resistance is your top priority, the leather is still pretty much unbeatable. If light weight and packability is your first concern, then leather is not a good choice.

Any jacket can have better or worse insulation, no matter what the exterior shell is made of.

I lived in Chicago for five years. From experience, I've found that you cannot put enough sweaters under a leather flight jacket to keep yourself warm when the air temperature is minus 10 F. Too much of your body is still exposed. A MUCH better choice is a longer coat with down insulation.

A compromise is some water resistant shell with microfiber fleece, which insulates better than traditional sweaters, and dries faster when wet. These also fit better under a leather jacket than do bulky sweaters.

Having said that, I enjoy wearing my leather more, if the weather is sufficiently moderate (temperature above freezing) to allow it.

 

[greyhound68]

I really like my leather jackets (A2s and G1s) but when it is cold, windy, with a hint of rain I go for my military issue Goretex jackets. The new digtal pattern has a fleece removeable liner which can be worn separately. Very nice very warm and breathable. I also really like the CWU-45 and 36 nomex jackets I have again really warm. While I think that leather jackets are more stylish and look better on I grab my goretex or nomex when the conditions get rough.