Leather/Roan sweatband manufacturers

[hatsRme]

I'll be sure to do that.

I should have posted this here before, mates... didn't know of the thread.

Don't forget to check (or better yet, have the vendor verify BEFORE you buy) for Dichromate in the tanning process. You may or may not be allergic to it. I am, leaving my forehead to look like I'm 16 again. Most hatters or sweatband vendors don't even know about this, but there was a mil. spec. from the 1940s specifically prohibiting its use in sweatbands. The spec is no longer, but I'm still allergic!

The simple test is to cut a toothpick sized (or larger, making it easier to see the results) slice from the sweat, and put a flame to it. Burn it to an ash. If it turns a lichen-like, or other shade of green, there's dichromate in the leather. See photos...

 

[Fedoras4Life]

That's cool. If you do go up there would you please take pictures of their other colors and post them? I would like to know what they have before I order next time.

The picture was too big so I uploaded it on imgbb.
Here are pictures of what they offer.
https://ibb.co/kjiU8Q
There is one more called chocolate cow, but I didn't take a photo of it as they have discontinued it.

Hope this helps you Chicago.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

The picture was too big so I uploaded it on imgbb.
Here are pictures of what they offer.
https://ibb.co/kjiU8Q
There is one more called chocolate cow, but I didn't take a photo of it as they have discontinued it.

Hope this helps you Chicago.

Thank you for doing that, it is a big help.

 

[moehawk]

First, let me be clear that I am not a professional hatter, but an enthusiastic hobbyist.
That said, I bought some of the Fern Thatcher sweatbands a couple years back. I originally got their number from Greg at Winchester. When I called, I spoke to the husband of the owner. Keep in mind it was a couple of years ago, and I didn't take notes, so some details may be a little fuzzy in my recollection. He said the company used to supply all the sweatbands to Stetson and all the other names under the corporate umbrella from sometime in the later 70's into the 90's. What some may call the bad old years...I'm also nearly certain he said they were all made with reconstituted leather. That might be a question to ask. They certainly don't have a very natural feel to me.
Anyway, I bought a dozen cow and 6 calf. The price then was almost the same as CWV stated so most likely the exact same product. I found the calf to be by far the better of the two. Thinner and a little lighter, and more flexible. For some reason, nearly (if not) all of them, cow and calf, had a roughly 1" to 1 1/2" section of the reed tape that was hard as a rock. Needed pliers to push the needle through. I have yet to get a good sewn seam joint on one of the cow, but the calf ones join a lot better. The cow ones are kind of like trying to sew a plastic ruler's ends together.
The weight on these is a factor for me as well. A 1 5/8" X 24" cow from FT weighs 33g. A calf of the same width is 28-29g (I don't have a whole un-cut one so I weighed one cut to 58cm and guesstimated the weight of the trimmed piece ) compared to 19g for a 2" X 24" roan leather from Lounger Bond.
The finish on the FT sweats (cow and calf) holds up to naptha, but comes right off with alcohol, so if you stiffen with shellac and keep alcohol on the workbench to dilute it, keep it off the sweats! No idea if whiskey sweat will remove the finish...
My advice if anyone is going to try the FT sweatbands is skip the cow, stick with the calf.
Better yet, go with a really nice sweatband from Bond. Once I tried a good leather product, it's tough to think about going back to the inferior stuff. Or, if you are really serious about making hats, invest in the gear to manufacture your own high quality leather sweats.
This has been my experience with the FT product vs. others, and my opinions. Yours may be different. Just thought I'd share.

 

[mayserwegener]

Side Note:

German, Austrian and Italian hat industry documents I have come across mention the use of Moroccan Leather for sweatbands. Here is an example from an early 1900s G.B.Borsalino Fu Lazzaro & C. prospectus (need to read down a bit).

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionz...bborsalino-fu-lazzaro-c-prospectus/#entry1318

 

[T Jones]

You can also get sweats from JW Hats. You need to call them and can get their phone number from their website: www.jwhats.com

I'm the same as you and humanshoes. I like the sweats from JW hats. Super soft and comfortable. I put a few of his sweats in some of my conversions.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

First, let me be clear that I am not a professional hatter, but an enthusiastic hobbyist.
That said, I bought some of the Fern Thatcher sweatbands a couple years back. I originally got their number from Greg at Winchester. When I called, I spoke to the husband of the owner. Keep in mind it was a couple of years ago, and I didn't take notes, so some details may be a little fuzzy in my recollection. He said the company used to supply all the sweatbands to Stetson and all the other names under the corporate umbrella from sometime in the later 70's into the 90's. What some may call the bad old years...I'm also nearly certain he said they were all made with reconstituted leather. That might be a question to ask. They certainly don't have a very natural feel to me.
Anyway, I bought a dozen cow and 6 calf. The price then was almost the same as CWV stated so most likely the exact same product. I found the calf to be by far the better of the two. Thinner and a little lighter, and more flexible. For some reason, nearly (if not) all of them, cow and calf, had a roughly 1" to 1 1/2" section of the reed tape that was hard as a rock. Needed pliers to push the needle through. I have yet to get a good sewn seam joint on one of the cow, but the calf ones join a lot better. The cow ones are kind of like trying to sew a plastic ruler's ends together.
The weight on these is a factor for me as well. A 1 5/8" X 24" cow from FT weighs 33g. A calf of the same width is 28-29g (I don't have a whole un-cut one so I weighed one cut to 58cm and guesstimated the weight of the trimmed piece ) compared to 19g for a 2" X 24" roan leather from Lounger Bond.
The finish on the FT sweats (cow and calf) holds up to naptha, but comes right off with alcohol, so if you stiffen with shellac and keep alcohol on the workbench to dilute it, keep it off the sweats! No idea if whiskey sweat will remove the finish...
My advice if anyone is going to try the FT sweatbands is skip the cow, stick with the calf.
Better yet, go with a really nice sweatband from Bond. Once I tried a good leather product, it's tough to think about going back to the inferior stuff. Or, if you are really serious about making hats, invest in the gear to manufacture your own high quality leather sweats.
This has been my experience with the FT product vs. others, and my opinions. Yours may be different. Just thought I'd share.

Good information! I will keep that in mind. The sweats I purchased from FT was the first order and I did so out of curiosity, until then I had only purchased sweats from JW and I do like the ones he produces. I still want to try some sweats from Singer Sampath as well. As a hobbyist I like to know what my options are and also not be dependent on a single supplier because I never know when their availability will dry up.

The cow and calf leather will also hold up better if I decide to try out leather tooling on them at all. They definitely hold a debossed logo better whereas with the soft roan you either need to gold stamp it or burn it into the leather.

 

[moehawk]

I have not tried JW. Are prices and shipping reasonable? Minimum order?

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

I have not tried JW. Are prices and shipping reasonable? Minimum order?

Yeah prices are reasonable about $5 each. I never had a minimum order requirement with them. Shipping is also reasonable. They are nice soft sweats. He makes them for a lot of hatter's, I have seen all the gold leaf logo dies today he had for each custom hatter.

 

[Fedoras4Life]

I'm the same as you and humanshoes. I like the sweats from JW hats. Super soft and comfortable. I put a few of his sweats in some of my conversions.

I can not seem to get in contact with this company though. I have called for two days in a row at different times and sent emails with out any reply. Are they normally hard to get into contact with?

 

[moehawk]

Yeah prices are reasonable about $5 each. I never had a minimum order requirement with them. Shipping is also reasonable. They are nice soft sweats. He makes them for a lot of hatter's, I have seen all the gold leaf logo dies today he had for each custom hatter.

Well heck! If they are better AND cheaper than the FT calf I guess I'll have to give them a call and order a few to try them. I also like options for my supplies.

 

[Michael R.]

I should have posted this here before, mates... didn't know of the thread.

Don't forget to check (or better yet, have the vendor verify BEFORE you buy) for Dichromate in the tanning process. You may or may not be allergic to it. I am, leaving my forehead to look like I'm 16 again. Most hatters or sweatband vendors don't even know about this, but there was a mil. spec. from the 1940s specifically prohibiting its use in sweatbands. The spec is no longer, but I'm still allergic!

The simple test is to cut a toothpick sized (or larger, making it easier to see the results) slice from the sweat, and put a flame to it. Burn it to an ash. If it turns a lichen-like, or other shade of green, there's dichromate in the leather. See photos...

View attachment 77116 View attachment 77117

Thanks Charlie , I had a weird breakout a while back , never thought about the sweat being the problem . I think I know what Hat I'd been wearing . Changed to a straw and it seems to have cleared up . It was little bumps , unnoticeable except by feeling , or in certain light at the correct angle you could see them . Pretty sure it was an old Stetson I think from the 80s . My Resistol I bought in the 80s hasn't caused it though . I've worn it for years .

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

I can not seem to get in contact with this company though. I have called for two days in a row at different times and sent emails with out any reply. Are they normally hard to get into contact with?

Email won't do, JW is 85 and hates computers. He has several employees so I am surprised to hear that no one is answering the phone. I will call tomorrow and see if I have the same experience. This is the number that I have for them 801-977-0676

 

[T Jones]

I can not seem to get in contact with this company though. I have called for two days in a row at different times and sent emails with out any reply. Are they normally hard to get into contact with?

He had a lady who was managing his shop for him. I spoke with them earlier this year to order a hat block from him. That's the last I heard from them. Another lady who was training under him said that he was really sick and if I was going to order anything I'd better do it fast. JW's a real nice guy. I had several conversations with him, I hope nothing's wrong. I'm going to try and give him a call this evening when I get off work, just to check on him.

 

[hatsRme]

Thanks Charlie , I had a weird breakout a while back , never thought about the sweat being the problem . I think I know what Hat I'd been wearing . Changed to a straw and it seems to have cleared up . It was little bumps , unnoticeable except by feeling , or in certain light at the correct angle you could see them . Pretty sure it was an old Stetson I think from the 80s . My Resistol I bought in the 80s hasn't caused it though . I've worn it for years .

Wow, Michael, I'm surprised that ANY Stetson would have used that material. If it fails the flame test, then even Stetson got caught by surprise! I know of three very reputable custom hatters that had no clue, but an old manufacturer like Stetson is a real surprise (IF IT TESTS POSITIVE).

Please let us know what you come up with!

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

He had a lady who was managing his shop for him. I spoke with them earlier this year to order a hat block from him. That's the last I heard from them. Another lady who was training under him said that he was really sick and if I was going to order anything I'd better do it fast. JW's a real nice guy. I had several conversations with him, I hope nothing's wrong. I'm going to try and give him a call this evening when I get off work, just to check on him.

JW had some health problems a while back, it was touch and go for a while. Talked to him about 3 weeks ago and he feels confident that he is getting better. Anyway, I called the shop today and talked with Marsha they are working hard, JW wasn't in at the time. I needed a reason to call and check on my binding machine anyway. I sent a machine that I got off of ebay for a little refurbishing and to have a table built and motor mounted. When calling remember that they are in Salt Lake City which is Mountain Time Zone and their hours are something like 10am to 5:30pm; either it was outside of hours or they were too busy at the time.

JW is a super nice guy, I have made two trips down and worked in his shop for a total of 7 days and for 5 of those days he put me up in a spare bedroom in his house at no charge to me.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

First, let me be clear that I am not a professional hatter, but an enthusiastic hobbyist.
That said, I bought some of the Fern Thatcher sweatbands a couple years back. I originally got their number from Greg at Winchester. When I called, I spoke to the husband of the owner. Keep in mind it was a couple of years ago, and I didn't take notes, so some details may be a little fuzzy in my recollection. He said the company used to supply all the sweatbands to Stetson and all the other names under the corporate umbrella from sometime in the later 70's into the 90's. What some may call the bad old years...I'm also nearly certain he said they were all made with reconstituted leather. That might be a question to ask. They certainly don't have a very natural feel to me.
Anyway, I bought a dozen cow and 6 calf. The price then was almost the same as CWV stated so most likely the exact same product. I found the calf to be by far the better of the two. Thinner and a little lighter, and more flexible. For some reason, nearly (if not) all of them, cow and calf, had a roughly 1" to 1 1/2" section of the reed tape that was hard as a rock. Needed pliers to push the needle through. I have yet to get a good sewn seam joint on one of the cow, but the calf ones join a lot better. The cow ones are kind of like trying to sew a plastic ruler's ends together.
The weight on these is a factor for me as well. A 1 5/8" X 24" cow from FT weighs 33g. A calf of the same width is 28-29g (I don't have a whole un-cut one so I weighed one cut to 58cm and guesstimated the weight of the trimmed piece ) compared to 19g for a 2" X 24" roan leather from Lounger Bond.
The finish on the FT sweats (cow and calf) holds up to naptha, but comes right off with alcohol, so if you stiffen with shellac and keep alcohol on the workbench to dilute it, keep it off the sweats! No idea if whiskey sweat will remove the finish...
My advice if anyone is going to try the FT sweatbands is skip the cow, stick with the calf.
Better yet, go with a really nice sweatband from Bond. Once I tried a good leather product, it's tough to think about going back to the inferior stuff. Or, if you are really serious about making hats, invest in the gear to manufacture your own high quality leather sweats.
This has been my experience with the FT product vs. others, and my opinions. Yours may be different. Just thought I'd share.

Thought you and some others would be interested in the uncut sweat weights form both JW Hats and Fern Thatcher. I measured the side of leather that the reed is attached to as way to compare between the two.

Fern Thatcher
1 5/8 inch sweat, cow, measured 25 inches in length weighed 31 grams
2 inch sweat, cow, measured 25 inches in length weighed 38 grams
2 inch sweat, calf, measured 25 inches in length weighed 34 grams

JW Hats
1 5/8 inch sweat, roan, measured 25.5 inches in length weighed 25.5 grams

 

[American Patrol]

For those of you that dont know, JW passed away a few months ago. Prior to his passing he sold all of huis sweats to a western hat company.