Leather jacket pricing in classified thread - wishful thinking vs. actual market

[58panheadfan]

Maybe this post could works in classified thread too

Ok, here we go: Often I see an announcement of sale for e.g. a leather jacket in classified section not correspond seller's asking price vs. current market. Of course sometimes it hurts to sell a new or nearly new leather jacket for 40%-50% of rrp. But if you should earn more, you are a happy bunny....isn't it?

Selling "vintage style leather jacket" from today's leading manufacturers* for more than 60% of rrp even when like new or tried on only condition, is nearly impossible. 60% maybe directly on forums like this one... but if you sell it on feebay it's ~19% less (13% ebay, 4% paypal and possibly 2% shitty ex-change rate).

I'm talking about new made & in new or nearly new condition leather jackets these days... Originals from last century have their own market.

There is no offense against everyone's pricing (or wishful thinking)... just curiouse about your own experiences

*not the fancy-schmancy ones

 

[jacketjunkie]

I have noticed too that the leather jacket market is on a bit of a low right now, maybe the market is saturated? It's become hard to sell, even at the prices you suggest as actual market. Jackets from Aero and other makers get sold at ebay for 50ish to 60ish % at best, more common models like the HWM quite often for much less. I remember a few years back, an Aero on the Classifieds was a rare thing, and an Aero being presented here in the Outerwear section was something special that got pages of replies and nowadays it's like "oh right, another Aero, gz, hf, gl".. another sign the market is saturated (and maybe past its peak?)

edit; before anyone takes that as an attack on Aero, I meant that for all big common companies, including Vanson, Eastman and partially even Langlitz.

 

[58panheadfan]

Answering myself... it costs me a "fortune" over last few years A: finding my own style... & B: buying and selling new or like new jackets... but C: on the other side a lot of customers made some great 40% - 60% deals on a new jacket... D: I'm always happy if buyers are..., honestly...

 

[ton312]

I think a large part of the reduced value comes from the fact that most of these new high end jackets are quite personally tailored to the original buyers specifications... The number of people who will fit/spec a jacket exactly like you is/could be quite a small pool of individuals. I also feel like there's a bit of "new car" value loss. The minute you drive it off the lot/wrinkle up the sleeves, it's going to sell for less. I've seen "new" or "like new" Aero's sell anywhere from $600-$800, (roughly 20% off new at best). I've seen other jackets with higher start points sell for about 1/2...The only jackets I've really ever broken even on or sold at a profit have been vintage and acquired at a reasonable price to begin with...

 

[58panheadfan]

I have noticed too that the leather jacket market is on a bit of a low right now, maybe the market is saturated? It's become hard to sell, even at the prices you suggest as actual market. Jackets from Aero and other makers get sold at ebay for 50ish to 60ish % at best, more common models like the HWM quite often for much less. I remember a few years back, an Aero on the Classifieds was a rare thing, and an Aero being presented here in the Outerwear section was something special that got pages of replies and nowadays it's like "oh right, another Aero, gz, hf, gl".. another sign the market is saturated (and maybe past its peak?)

edit; before anyone takes that as an attack on Aero, I meant that for all big common companies, including Vanson, Eastman and partially even Langlitz.

You nailed it! ... sometimes the japanese "stuff" has his own market, due the lack of physical presence on western hemisphere... but it's an easy thing to ordering e.g. rakuten, buyee, yahoo.jp etc. these days. I remember about "good ol' time", speaking ~15yrs ago, when it was a really challenge ordering any goods from Japan

 

[58panheadfan]

I think a large part of the reduced value comes from the fact that most of these new high end jackets are quite personally tailored to the original buyers specifications... The number of people who will fit/spec a jacket exactly like you is/could be quite a small pool of individuals. I also feel like there's a bit of "new car" value loss. The minute you drive it off the lot/wrinkle up the sleeves, it's going to sell for less. I've seen "new" or "like new" Aero's sell anywhere from $600-$800, (roughly 20% off new at best). I've seen other jackets with higher start points sell for about 1/2...The only jackets I've really ever broken even on or sold at a profit have been vintage and acquired at a reasonable price to begin with...

Well said...! Nice posts, yet... cool...

 

[ton312]

Well said...! Nice posts, yet... cool...

A prime example for me would be a vintage Bates Highwayman jacket that I paid $99 for. It was a bit grubby but had the original belt and snap on winter collar. I cleaned and conditioned it, set it at auction on the bay with an opening bid of exactly what I paid. Sold to a a buyer in Japan for $400! My jaw dropped in the closing minutes of that auction...doesn't happen often but there's always that possibility of "someone, somewhere"...I know I've been that buyer before...

 

[58panheadfan]

A prime example for me would be a vintage Bates Highwayman jacket that I paid $99 for. It was a bit grubby but had the original belt and snap on winter collar. I cleaned and conditioned it, set it at auction on the bay with an opening bid of exactly what I paid. Sold to a a buyer in Japan for $400! My jaw dropped in the closing minutes of that auction...doesn't happen often but there's always that possibility of "someone, somewhere"...I know I've been that buyer before...

@ton312 as I mentioned in my OP... the vintage market is another thing (maybe worth another thread)... right now, thinking about my best sale ever... made with a BUCO J-22 2nd type

But we should held this thread by: new made & in new or nearly new condition leather jackets these days...

 

[Cooper A-2]

Can only agree!
Difficult times for sellers...
WW2 or up to Vietnam war originals are easyer to sell, especilly if in good cond and larger size...
Even Good Wear A-2 jackets...almost new condition...good size...New price approx. 1200,-- Euro...barely sell for 800,--Euro in the same flawless condition...( plus the fact that the seller has to bear a lot of " smart questions ")...and despite the delivery time saving for the 800,-- Euro jacket.
Lousy times for sellers...

 

[58panheadfan]

Also from my ebay (bad) experiences... often it has 50 - 70 watchers on an item you have on sale ... but in the end only 3-4 are bidding. It seems they are a lot of lurkers around... some yrs ago, sometimes you have to go thru a hefty bidding-battle.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Also from my ebay (bad) experiences... often it has 50 - 70 watchers on an item you have on sale ... but in the end only 3-4 are bidding. It seems they are a lot of lurkers around... some yrs ago, sometimes you have to go thru a hefty bidding-battle.

funnily enough, i had an experience the other day with an aero jacket for sale, where i am 100% sure the seller had a friend put fake bids on it to raise the price. there were only 2 bidders, me and one other guy and everytime i bid, he started putting bids in like 5€ steps, as if to make sure he didn't overbid me by too much and scared me away. at first i thought it was a real bidder, so i raised by 100 and then he legit bid 20x, every time 5€ more just to slightly overbid me yet again, and it was a 0 feedback guy who was bidding on nothing else.. i'm maybe naive that this never came to my mind before, but is this a thing on ebay? do people try to influence the auctions of their items like that?

 

[Cooper A-2]

Also from my ebay (bad) experiences... often it has 50 - 70 watchers on an item you have on sale ... but in the end only 3-4 are bidding. It seems they are a lot of lurkers around... some yrs ago, sometimes you have to go thru a hefty bidding-battle.

A lot of photo collectors and time wasters arround these days...

 

[Cooper A-2]

funnily enough, i had an experience the other day with an aero jacket for sale, where i am 100% sure the seller had a friend put fake bids on it to raise the price. there were only 2 bidders, me and one other guy and everytime i bid, he started putting bids in like 5€ steps, as if to make sure he didn't overbid me by too much and scared me away. at first i thought it was a real bidder, so i raised by 100 and then he legit bid 20x, every time 5€ more just to slightly overbid me yet again, and it was a 0 feedback guy who was bidding on nothing else.. i'm maybe naive that this never came to my mind before, but is this a thing on ebay? do people try to influence the auctions of their items like that?

Ebay is happy about this forbidden "shillbidding".
Ebay gets its fees from the selling amount...and from the relisting, since the shillbidder does not buy/pay.

 

[Guppy]

Maybe this post could works in classified thread too

Ok, here we go: Often I see an announcement of sale for e.g. a leather jacket in classified section not correspond seller's asking price vs. current market. Of course sometimes it hurts to sell a new or nearly new leather jacket for 40%-50% of rrp. But if you should earn more, you are a happy bunny....isn't it?

Selling "vintage style leather jacket" from today's leading manufacturers* for more than 60% of rrp even when like new or tried on only condition, is nearly impossible. 60% maybe directly on forums like this one... but if you sell it on feebay it's ~19% less (13% ebay, 4% paypal and possibly 2% shitty ex-change rate).

I'm talking about new made & in new or nearly new condition leather jackets these days... Originals from last century have their own market.

There is no offense against everyone's pricing (or wishful thinking)... just curiouse about your own experiences

*not the fancy-schmancy ones

Prices are set by the market. This means that there are data points all over the place, and the average is what we look at as the going rate. But yet when you pair the right buyer and seller, individual items can defy the average. Really, they're still part of the data that produces the average.

There are so many factors that can affect price. Age, brand, style, condition, rarity, desirability, size, and aging/patina all come into play. A new, unworn, or nearly new jacket that does not have anything unique about it, is more of a commodity. The maker can make one very much like it again, only with your exact measurements and customization, and satisfaction guaranteed, if you are willing to pay full price, so to sell it off a seller has to offer a discount enough to offset the value of those things.

For an older jacket with some wear, but still very wearable, with a lot of life left, and a distinct aging that takes decades to accomplish, and cannot be reproduced exactly by anyone, you have a unique item, not a commodity. Or if you have a historical relic, even if it's trashed, there may be a buyer out there who has deep pockets and the right motivation. There, the seller can command a premium, and get it if they're patient enough, or not. If not, then it depends on how motivated the seller is to sell. It's a highly individual thing. If you must sell, you keep lowering your price until you find a buyer. If you aren't desperate, you can wait a long time. Maybe you still won't find a buyer, but nothing is forcing anyone to buy or sell, so ultimately every price agreed to is a fair price and the right price. Unless the object is a fake, or misrepresented of course.

In general, people who are doing business will price the market to move merchandise. People who collect because they love jackets may not be motivated sellers, but still be willing to sell for the right price for them.

 

[Guppy]

funnily enough, i had an experience the other day with an aero jacket for sale, where i am 100% sure the seller had a friend put fake bids on it to raise the price. there were only 2 bidders, me and one other guy and everytime i bid, he started putting bids in like 5€ steps, as if to make sure he didn't overbid me by too much and scared me away. at first i thought it was a real bidder, so i raised by 100 and then he legit bid 20x, every time 5€ more just to slightly overbid me yet again, and it was a 0 feedback guy who was bidding on nothing else.. i'm maybe naive that this never came to my mind before, but is this a thing on ebay? do people try to influence the auctions of their items like that?

Ebay really is a broken marketplace these days. Best practice for buying is to bid last minute so you can avoid wars with shills. You get a lower price out of it, and if everyone snipes what you end up with in practice is a silent, sealed bid auction.

Bids are information, and when buyers withhold information on what they're willing to pay until the very end, it can distort the market. The ones who truly desire the item will overvalue it, but when no one especially wants an item, it will go very cheaply, leaving the seller ripped off.

To compensate, sellers raise the opening bid price, which further discourages speculative bidding. Or they set a reserve price, which tacks on more fees. EBay fees contribute to the price of the item. Or they set a Buy It Now price and wait (and wait).

Sellers also are vulnerable to being ripped off by buyers abusing the dispute resolution process. EBay has proven incapable of preventing fraud economically. It's virtually impossible to find the facts, and arbitration is very expensive relative to most transactions. Most transactions go well, but all the ones that do, are because both buyer and seller entered into contract in good faith and were honest. Fraud pushes prices upward as a cost of doing business.

Ebay should automatically extend auctions when there is bid activity in the final moments, and close auctions when bidding activity subsides after the set closing time. This would solve many problems, but still wouldn't address shill bidding. Other sites extend automatically, it's a mystery why eBay doesn't do it.

 

[breezer]

pricing to sell is the key.....a deal must be attractive to the buyer....and in most cases around 50% of the retail value will work, depending on condition. It makes me giggle when someone offers up a nearly new jacket thinking they will get back most of what they put into it.
And don't ask me to send PayPal funds as a 'friend' - it aint happening.

 

[ton312]

Best practice for buying is to bid last minute so you can avoid wars with shills

Agreed...I haven't bid on an auction item and won in years...even when I've overvalued my bid. Then, strangely enough, a few days or weeks later here comes the same item with a sob story about a non paying bidder...yet they decline the option of second chance offers for my overvalued bid...Shill bidders are mostly shill sellers me thinks...

 

[AeroFan_07]

I've experienced some of this. Have a Langlitz Columbia in the Classifieds, and no-one has expressed interest in this.

Ebay seems a little dead right now too. What Guppy says above (everyone holding out till the very end) has also been my experience. I've decided to hold off on more sales until this season is past.

 

[Cooper A-2]

pricing to sell is the key.....a deal must be attractive to the buyer....and in most cases around 50% of the retail value will work, depending on condition. It makes me giggle when someone offers up a nearly new jacket thinking they will get back most of what they put into it.
And don't ask me to send PayPal funds as a 'friend' - it aint happening.

Agree partially until the Paypal issue...
Most of the seller here ask ...Paypal for friends and familly...
Other than that, fully concur.

 

[ProteinNerd]

Ebay should automatically extend auctions when there is bid activity in the final moments, and close auctions when bidding activity subsides after the set closing time. This would solve many problems, but still wouldn't address shill bidding. Other sites extend automatically, it's a mystery why eBay doesn't do it.

Couldn’t agree more, especially considering easily available sniping programs have been available for years. The program waits until a fraction of a second before the listing ends before placing a bid so its not possible for someone to then outbid them.