Leather brand info

[Valerius]

Hi guys,

I've been doing some searching on this site and have come to know about brands like Aero leather, Eastman, Vanson.

I was wondering what brands are considered to be of higher quality. For instance, is US Wings popular here? Do they make good leather jackets? And if so, how do they compare to the expensive brands like Aero?

Is a G1 from Alpha Industries not as desirable than one from Aero or Eastman? And if so, is this based on quality, authenticity or...?

I am simply trying to figure out the brand hierarchies and which one might be suitable for me.

I was looking into getting a leather G1 for my brother in-law and maybe a shearling for myself, but have little knowledge about the brands that are commonly referred to here.

I would appreciate any ideas. Thanks!

 

[Fanch]

Gibson & Barnes makes a fantastic G-1.

 

[kojax]

cockpit g1 vintage goatskin real nice jacket

 

[majormajor]

I think the phrase "how long is a piece of string" is apt here.

We are very lucky to have a good number of manufacturers, worldwide, vying for our business for replica vintage leather.

I'm in the UK, so I tend towards Aero & Eastman. If I was in the States, I guess I would be on Goodwear's doorstep.

As they say, "you pays your money, and you takes your choice".......

 

[Valerius]

Well the question is, what differentiates a $400 US Wings jacket from an Aero or Goodwear?

A brand like Ralph Lauren purple label is priced high because of price, but how much does brand affect these military style leathers?

 

[Seb Lucas]

Well the question is, what differentiates a $400 US Wings jacket from an Aero or Goodwear?

A brand like Ralph Lauren purple label is priced high because of price, but how much does brand affect these military style leathers?

The difference is basically, attention to detail, quality of workmanship, quality of leather and integrity of the design or the patterns. A Goodwear is hand made by one man from painstakingly developed patterns based on a study of original jackets, the leather is sourced to be the best available.

A Wings jacket is a well made mass produced item that many people are happy with. The patterns of their A2's are bulky and not very accurate. You wouldn't expect it to last as long either.

Ralph Lauren - a fashion item where the price is about the label and not much else - a well made, high end mall jacket. Again, some people are happy with that. It all depends on your personal view.

I own some G&B jackets. Well made and very nice as far as I'm concerned. I don't have an A2 by them as I'm not passionate about that pattern. Will my goat G&B wear as long and as hard as by HH Aero? I doubt it.

 

[Valerius]

Leather is a durable material, it is doubtful whether a jacket sees so much wear and tear that it needs to "wear long and hard" as a HH Aero.

If the "wear long and hard" aspect of your jacket is not really all that functional, what is the pt? Anyways, I don't get the feeling that people really go around abusing their Aero jackets...likewise with a US Wings jacket. If you take care of the item and is of reasonable quality there is no reason for it to fall apart.

The other reasons you listed --workmanship, painstaking whatever is the regular talk one hears when justifying high cost items. Hardly compelling.

But the question still stands, so where do brands like Vanson, Aero, and then Alpha industries stand? Are the price differences really justified? Since I am ordering online and do not have strong leather knowledge, I wonder.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Seb got it right, but I'll chime in:

For somebody who isn't already passionate or semi-expert about these things (like some friend or relative you're giving a gift), a $200 US Wings A-2 or G-1 jacket is fine. They won't be concerned about accuracy in design, details, materials, or fit. Wings, Cockpit, Schott, Alpha, and all the mass-market generic jackets are very similar. They are less expensive because they are mass-produced, made with unexceptional materials, and cut modern style - that is, big - and they are fine for folks who just want a nice military-style jacket vs. an accurate reproduction.

Gibson & Barnes is a step up, particularly in their historical line (the "Mark nn" A-2s and M-422A) that uses correct knit and lining materials. And while their sizing is still modern, they offer Short and Tall variations on numbered sizes, so you can get a better fit.

US Authentic is a somewhat different animal, their jackets are really handmade in a very small shop. They are not super-authentic (despite the name), but get pretty close to a proper generic reproduction for a good price, if their strange (trim but long) sizing works for you. Their horsehide is less nuanced than in the premium jackets - thicker and with a heavier color coat - but is really tough stuff. Their goatskin A-2 is a best buy: the least expensive replica WWII A-2 out there with correct (and more comfortable) cotton lining and wool knits.

The premium makers - Good Wear, Eastman, Aero, McCoy's, Lost Worlds - are a whole other scene, and not just because they cost more. There's serious dedication to replicating specific jacket models (not just an "A-2", but one of the specfic manufacturers and a particular contract version), an undending quest for sourcing outstanding and accurate materials, and in many cases, custom sizing for each jacket. They cost more, but they are better made, more accurate, and often unique.

In my own case, I got interested 11 years ago. The only US Wings jacket I had - a goatskin Indy - I didn't like at all (it didn't fit, and I was unimpressed with the leather/lining/zip/etc.), and I gave it to a friend, who's worn it every winter since and its held up great. I have two Gibson & Barnes jackets, a black Civil A-2 that I've worn thousands of times that's still in great shape, and a historical M-422A that even nicer. (But they're sized wrong for me: I need shorter sleeves and a bigger gut. These jackets are too big everywhere but the waist.) I had a US Authentic seal horsehide A-2 for several years: it was a great jacket - it had lots of "personality" - but as soon as I gained a little weight, it didn't fit. I sold it to help pay for a Good Wear, which is on a whole other plane of construction and accuracy. Not only is it correctly sized for me in a way that none of my other jackets (apart from my custom-size Wested Raiders) are, but it's very accurate to its specific manufacturer/contract and the horsehide is amazing: I'll be wearing this thing for the rest of my life. It's truly "1942 in a box"!

Essentially, there are jackets for every budget and level of quality out there. The more expensive ones are better, but that doesn't mean that you need one of those, unless you catch the jacket bug that's enslaved many of us here. As the George Harrison song says, "It's all up to what you value - down to where you are"!

 

[Valerius]

Other than accuracy for military designs, how much better can the quality of skins used be? Good leather is good leather, there is no secret source of "amazing" leather. So I am curious how you know that Aero uses great quality leather--what makes it so much better? Thicker? Softer? I don't get it.

Generally the highest and most expensive quality leather is also the least durable--so it would appear that your ideas are less than logical. I am not well versed in the leathers used in these premium quality brands popular here, so I am asking why you have come to think the way you do--which may point out errors in my thinking.

Also, modern sizing is slim fit...If you want a tighter fitting jacket, then it is a breeze...

 

[Equality 7-2521]

How about this, whatever you think is right and what every else that has gathered much knowledge about this is wrong?

 

[Valerius]

I don't understand the hostility...discussion does not equal complete agreement. You must be very young to interpret it this way.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

I was rather joking a bit hence my smiley but you came across to me as someone that wanted reinforcement of your own opinion by dismissing contrary ones at every turn, instead of wanting to hear another opinion. Young would depend who you ask, my sister considers me ancient at thirty while people at my work consider me young .

 

[HighandDry]

Generally the highest and most expensive quality leather is also the least durable

The type of leather usually determines the durability. Not really correlated to price or quality.

 

[schitzo]

as you've said yourself, you don't know about leather. And your comments confirm as much.

I suggest that if you listen to the people here who do you may learn something useful.

Let me get the ball rolling. The Front quarter horsehide used by aero is leather from a different galaxy to anything you will see in the shopping centre, in every respect. Somebody else can explain why

All the best
Schitz

 

[Doctor Strange]

Valerius, you seem to be coming from a contemporary fashion viewpoint - you think a modern cut is slim (which is true for some young people, but not the general public), and expensive leather is thin - which is not what the reproduction military jacket market is about. These jackets are supposed to be military spec-tough for hard wear. Thin lambskin (while a beautiful and luxurious leather - my Wested Raiders is made of it) is not what these jackets are made from: it tears too easily to be practical (my Wested did!) Good horsehide and goatskin - that is, superior hides that have been carefully tanned and finished - have tremendous character, and develop more as they break in and age. The desired cut for these jackets is sharp and shirt-like, not the epaulet-way-off-the-shoulder-look with baggy sleeves and body common in mass-produced fashionable jackets.

You really can't tell the differences in hide and construction without some experience handling the different jackets. My Gibson & Barnes Civil A-2 seemed outstanding when I first got it in 2001 (and I still wear it frequently)... But I now realize that the synthetic knits and lining are uncomfortable and tacky, the goatskin is solid but undistinguished, with too heavy a topcoat finish, and the cut (quite apart from my own unique sizing issues) isn't the svelte look that 30s/40s jackets had on their 19-year-old, thin-from-undernourishment-growing-up-in-the-Depression flyboys.

None of this stuff may matter to you where you're coming from. And that's fine: there are leather jackets for everybody's taste. But you asked why many of us here develop a fascination with, and go through an expensive learning curve on, getting flight jackets that accurately reflect those of the Golden Era. And I'm trying to explain!

 

[Valerius]

Schitzo:

Well, why leave it to someone else to explain? If you are okay with making such a strong statement then you should be capable of explaining yourself--or else, your opinion is just anecdotal and not really worth much. So please keep your edifying tone to yourself.

Also, we were talking about cow hide and goatskin...not horse hides. Does Aero produce horse hides exclusively? In that case, you may be right, otherwise--rubbish post.

In terms of cow hide, the more expensive the leather the more fragile it is. Please, take time to consider if your next post will not be more of the same rubbish.

 

[Valerius]

Valerius, you seem to be coming from a contemporary fashion viewpoint - you think a modern cut is slim (which is true for some young people, but not the general public), and expensive leather is thin - which is not what the reproduction military jacket market is about. These jackets are supposed to be military spec-tough for hard wear. Thin lambskin (while a beautiful and luxurious leather - my Wested Raiders is made of it) is not what these jackets are made from: it tears too easily to be practical (my Wested did!) Good horsehide and goatskin - that is, superior hides that have been carefully tanned and finished - have tremendous character, and develop more as they break in and age. The desired cut for these jackets is sharp and shirt-like, not the epaulet-way-off-the-shoulder-look with baggy sleeves and body common in mass-produced fashionable jackets.

You really can't tell the differences in hide and construction without some experience handling the different jackets. My Gibson & Barnes Civil A-2 seemed outstanding when I first got it in 2001 (and I still wear it frequently)... But I now realize that the synthetic knits and lining are uncomfortable and tacky, the goatskin is solid but undistinguished, with too heavy a topcoat finish, and the cut (quite apart from my own unique sizing issues) isn't the svelte look that 30s/40s jackets had on their 19-year-old, thin-from-undernourishment-growing-up-in-the-Depression flyboys.

None of this stuff may matter to you where you're coming from. And that's fine: there are leather jackets for everybody's taste. But you asked why many of us here develop a fascination with, and go through an expensive learning curve on, getting flight jackets that accurately reflect those of the Golden Era. And I'm trying to explain!

The current cut that is in vogue is slim fit--that is fact, there really is no discussion on that matter. If you would like me to prove this to you, then go to your local store and ask what a slim fit is. This I imagined was self-evident for anyone remotely familiar with the current retail market, in suits or jackets...

Next, for leather, in vehicles, in furniture--the most expensive leathers are also the easiest to stain and damage. Fact as well.

The rest of your information was illuminating, thank you. I see one contradiction however, if the cuts stick to one's body so tightly, then you would have to be very fit to wear these jackets, no? A portly man would then look ridiculous in your flight jackets...with his gut prominently sticking out of his shirt like jacket. Are all the fans of flight jackets thin and lean, or do they not care that their bulbous tummies are only emphasized in their skin tight patina leather?

I do not come from a fashion oriented perspective though, you have imagined so because of your own biases.

I am not familiar with horse hides at all though...and am curious how the horse hide compares to the cow or goat. Is it more durable? I have only read that it is stiff and requires a long break in period. Also, character is a subjective thing--cow hide can develop a beautiful patina and from what I have read here, goat skin stays remarkably consistent in appearance over the years. Pt is, Aero horse hide does not have the monopoly on character

 

[kojax]

i like all my a-2 gibson barnes goatskin size 38 my real mccoy horsehide size 40 soon to be here my bill kelso a-2 dark seal horsehide size 38

 

[Valerius]

Doctor Strange, I reread your post. I do not think you have an in depth knowledge of leathers or even true military specs..I believe you are just an uncritical consumer of these kinds of products.

Perhaps I am wrong here, but if not, then, why give me this kind of misleading information?

 

[HighandDry]

The current cut that is in vogue is slim fit--that is fact, there really is no discussion on that matter. If you would like me to prove this to you, then go to your local store and ask what a slim fit is. This I imagined was self-evident for anyone remotely familiar with the current retail market, in suits or jackets...

Next, for leather, in vehicles, in furniture--the most expensive leathers are also the easiest to stain and damage. Fact as well.

The rest of your information was illuminating, thank you. I see one contradiction however, if the cuts stick to one's body so tightly, then you would have to be very fit to wear these jackets, no? A portly man would then look ridiculous in your flight jackets...with his gut prominently sticking out of his shirt like jacket. Are all the fans of flight jackets thin and lean, or do they not care that their bulbous tummies are only emphasized in their skin tight patina leather?

I do not come from a fashion oriented perspective though, you have imagined so because of your own biases.

I am not familiar with horse hides at all though...and am curious how the horse hide compares to the cow or goat. Is it more durable? I have only read that it is stiff and requires a long break in period. Also, character is a subjective thing--cow hide can develop a beautiful patina and from what I have read here, goat skin stays remarkably consistent in appearance over the years. Pt is, Aero horse hide does not have the monopoly on character

Anyone so belligerent is obviously a troll...