Learning Proper Construction With Vintage Clothing

[scotrace]

Scotrace, I'm in the process of capturing pics from a color home movie made at the 1939 New York World's Fair. Tons of COLOR images of everyday people wearing everyday clothes of the time. Look for the thread!

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Have been glued to it. So much to learn in every image!

(I just can't get over your willingness to do so much work. I complain over the process with TWO pictures, let alone eleventy-hundred)

 

[Nashoba]

Overall, I find vintage clothes soooo much more comfortable- the only excpetion I can think of is sitting for long periods of time in a fitted waistcoat. That can be like wearing a corset.

I know I'll regret asking this Ray but have you ever actually worn a corset?
nash

 

[Matt Deckard]

It is all about the armholes.

The shoulder padding in these two are pretty much the same... the armhole difference is quite obvious.

Vintage

Modern

Vintage

Modern

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words and these certainly qualify. Thanks!

 

[Sefton]

Yes, it's a dramatic difference isn't it? The horizontal line across Wildroot's shoulders is perfectly straight. Too bad because the modern jacket that Matt is wearing is a very nice looking one. If the arm holes were properly fitted it would be perfect. I have a number of modern jackets that could be so great if only...

 

[Riposte3]

Ok ... but there's something else we need to do at the same time. We need to start making dress shirts with higher armholes.
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Hi from the new guy!

I second this motion. Our "uniform" at work is the infamous "business casual." The company does provide shirts with the company name embroidered on them. Polo shirts for summer and long sleeve, button down collar shirts for winter.

After reading this thread and the other one on arm-hole size, I finally realized a couple of things: Why none of my dress shirts are really comfortable, and why even dress shirts seem to look sloppy nowadays. Even "good" dress shirts worn with quality slacks and a tie.

Has anyone else noticed this with modern shirts? They all look half untucked! It's the oversized armholes. You start with a nice, clean tuck. Then you move your arms, and the sleeves pull the waist of the shirt up! Now, instead of a nice clean tuck, your shirt waist is bloused, and your nice outfit looks poorly fitted! I've never noticed this phenomenon in classic pictures, where they would have had shirts with higher armholes to go with the jackets.

 

[scotrace]

Great to have you here!

Welcome to the Fedora Lounge, Riposte3!

You've touched on something that is slowly dawning on me as well. NOW I am seeing why my shirts are all untucked from the moment I reach out for the steering wheel!

 

[Matt Deckard]

Do you think somewhere along the line there were a group of guys who got together and riped and complained about how suits and shirts fit too well and looked too god? "The armholes are too high I say".

It is still totally baffling to me that the low armhole is kimg on the market.

 

[Orgetorix]

Martin Stall has an interesting new post on this subject over on his blog.

It's not enough for the armhole to be small and high. It has to be positioned correctly around where your arm attaches to your body. Since this is affected by your stance (straight or hunched) and how you hold your arms (forward, back, shoulders up or drooping), the calculus involved with getting a proper armhole fit involves the cut of the chest, back, sides, and shoulders. This is so different from person to person that it'd be difficult to do it well for RTW clothing. Big, low armholes have a greater margin of error.

 

[Mojave Jack]

Do you think somewhere along the line there were a group of guys who got together and riped and complained about how suits and shirts fit too well and looked too god? "The armholes are too high I say".

It is still totally baffling to me that the low armhole is kimg on the market.

Whatever the reason, ultimately I'm sure it comes down to saving a buck somewhere. Maybe the sewing machines are cheaper if they're not made to fit into the smaller area, maybe the shop saves 3 square inches of fabric per suit,... Somewhere, though, I'm willing to bet it was a cost-saving measure. I think a contributing factor is that suits became less and less a daily wear item; thus folks asked less of their suits, wearing them only to weddings and funerals, and no one even noticed that the suit manufacturers were skimping on the details. I'm sure they simply attributed the poor fit to not being comfortable in a suit.

On the shirts, I've also been noticing the same thing. Ironically, one of my shirts that almost never comes untucked in my Cabela's soft canvas trail shirt. After learning about the armhole issue, it occurred it me that it has the smallest armholes of any of my shirts.

The other factor on shirt fit is where the shoulder seam hits. I look around my office and just about every guy has the shoulder seam an inch or more off their shoulder. That acts like a lever every time they lift their arms, aggravating the large armhole issue. I was encountering that with shirts that did not come in talls. I needed the larger size for the sleeve length, and ended up with a baggy shirt that wouldn't stay tucked in.

 

[Tomasso]

Then there's the issue of sleeve "pitch".

Since this is affected by your stance (straight or hunched) and how you hold your arms (forward, back, shoulders up or drooping), the calculus involved with getting a proper armhole fit involves the cut of the chest, back, sides, and shoulders.

RTW jackets have sleeves hung in a neutral position for the "average" physique and posture. Personally, I think that a poorly hung sleeve is much more egregious than an oversized armhole. Look at this chap. :eusa_doh: I notice a lot of this on the street.

Read here.

 

[John in Covina]

Low arm holes?

I am a little unclear as to why the industry went to these low arm holes in the Suits, jackets and shirt? Ease of construction? Comfort?

Seems to me if you can move your arms freely in the high arm hole style without having your whole suit jack up, that would be more comfortable.

Unless it feels restricked some how.

 

[BellyTank]

This is so different from person to person that it'd be difficult to do it well for RTW clothing. Big, low armholes have a greater margin of error.

Well, the shops and mail-order companies got it right for decades- ANY vintage suit I own, or have tried on, which fits me, has a superior arm/armpit/shoulder fitting than any 'rack' suit jacket.

Agreed though- a personally fitted jacket should be the ultimate.
But the cost today.... Pooha!

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