Learning a New Language Past Age 10

[Feng_Li]

It all depends...

If you have never learned a foreign language before, I'd suggest starting with a formal class of some sort. At this point, you're not just learning the target language, you're learning how you learn a new language, and this is where the class setting and instructor can be most helpful. Focus on vocabulary acquisition and speaking first, then work on reading and writing as you build your knowledge base.

The absolute most important thing, however, is not to be shy about practicing. I've never studied any Spanish in my life, but I've practiced ordering at the local burrito joint enough that cashiers who don't recognize me will tell me my total in Spanish. People are extremely accommodating when you make the effort. If you can't travel, find some people locally. Check for a local French/German/Russian society in your city - they would love to help you learn. If there is a university near you, put up an ad for a tandem partner - a native speaker whom you can assist with English and who can assist you in his or her native language. If you both have enough ability in both, you can switch back and forth whenever you want.

If you've studied a language before and have some idea of how you learn, I'd advise something like this: (assuming you want to study on your own)

Get a hold of a longer text (about the size of a news brief) and a recording of someone reading it. Listen to the text and read along. Your goal here is twofold: you're training your ear to recognize and differentiate between the sounds of the language, and you're learning how pronunciation and spelling correspond. (English is one of the least consistent languages here, so assuming you aren't trying to learn Welsh, you can do this without too much trouble). Work yourself to the point where you think you could passably read the passage aloud yourself. Focus just on the pronunciation at this point, and play back the recording to check yourself. Later, you'll want to focus on the rhythm of the language, but you have to work your ear up to that.

Caveat: if you're learning a tonal language (Chinese, Vietnamese, aso.) you absolutely must learn how the tones work before you do anything else.

Armed with this knowledge of pronunciation, you can work out of nearly any textbook to learn vocabulary and grammar, according to your own system and preferences.

 

[ScionPI2005]

I've been trying to learn Spanish off and on for the past 5 or so years. I took three years of Spanish in high school, and have taken 1.5 in college off and on throughout my semesters.

It's been very hard for me. Seems like the second you stop working it, you start to forget it. And if there's no one around regularly to talk to in another language, it's very hard to practice and keep it.

I'm still trying though. As a Criminology student looking to do investigations, I see the value in being truly bilengual in this country. I've already done investigations with other investigators and run into folks who can't speak english. So I definitely see the importance.

One day I'll get it.

 

[The Reno Kid]

I have a slightly different take on the "learn it while you're young" perspective. I took three years of Spanish in high school and three years of French in college. I lived in Germany for a total of eight years. While I learned to communicate in each of these languages, I was never close to fluency. About a year ago (at the tender age of 45), I began seriously studying Latin after toying with the idea for years. I fairly quickly developed a passion for it and am developing a deeper understanding of Latin than I ever had of the other languages.

I don't remember Spanish or French being any easier than Latin is for me now. And Latin grammar is more complex than the grammars of any of the other three languages. Also, Latin has the disadvantage of being almost entirely a written language. There are no living native Latin speakers. I suspect my relative success with Latin is due mostly to the fact that I approach it as a particularly enjoyable avocation. Spanish, French, and even German always seemed like a chore when I was younger. Of course, the same is true for many other things as well.

I suppose my point is that I believe passion is much more important than age. Exercises in conjugation and declension that were sheer drudgery when I was a teen are much easier for me now. All that being said, I agree with the original proposition that languages are more easily learned at a very early age. I don't think second or third grade is too early. Apologies for the extended ramble.

 

[Feng_Li]

And if there's no one around regularly to talk to in another language, it's very hard to practice and keep it.

I wouldn't have thought it would be hard to get regular Spanish practice in New Mexico. [huh]

 

[Viola]

I'd like very much to learn Hebrew but I'm language-damaged, I think. I can read it in the sense I know what all the letters say, but I don't know what they mean.

I was told by several people that I have just a flat terrible ear for languages.

-Viola

 

[Novella]

What others have said about passion for and dedication to a language are very true. I took Spanish in high school and French in college, but I'm not really passionate about learning either language. With Spanish it was largely due to the fact that there were a lot of fluent Spanish speakers at my high school. Made Spanish boring. And for whatever reason, the school administration let fluent Spanish speakers take Spanish classes, which was not helpful at all for kids who didn't speak Spanish at home.

 

[Smithy]

The only true way of learning a language properly is to live in the country with the people and speak it. Being from NZ I am a natural English speaker but having lived (and now back again) in Norway, I know this first-hand. I learnt a smattering before I came here but tapes and books can't prepare you for dialectical differences, slang, etc.

It's the same for school or even university language learnings, they can prepare you very well but you'll never really "know" a language until you live with the people who use it and immerse yourself in it. That's when you realise that really learning a language is so much more than just what comes out of people's mouths.

 

[Fletch]

As a former Latin scholar, I found it comparatively easy to acquire reading knowledge in French and Spanish - but yes, vocabulary is hard won and easily lost. German was a little easier from the vocab standpoint, as it has compound words, but it's very idiomatic - as much as English.

My mimic's ear helped me pick up the sounds and basic accents in all three languages. Here's the kicker though. My French class at FIAF in NYC went very well for a semester or so - I got the sounds down well and my speech progressed nicely - but when it came time to listen to tapes in class instead of the teacher, I was stopped cold. With no visual or nonverbal cues, I could no longer hear discrete words - just a stream of sounds with an occasional word bobbing up, and no context to go on. You got no text to read along, and not overmuch repetition - you simply had to keep up.

I later discovered I had had the same problem in English, if to a much lesser degree. I had been misunderstanding phone conversations forever and learned to avoid the phone wherever possible (I still keep it short and simple when I can).

As the FIAF teachers were not helpful about how to listen to the tapes - it was an immersion class, so there wasn't much time or sympathy for special difficulties - I soon fell behind and had to leave the class.

Despite a good natural ear for accents, I will not try again for fluency in any language until I learn to deal with an invisible speaker. And there are no methods for teaching that, because so few people have any trouble with it.

 

[RedPop4]

What others have said about passion for and dedication to a language are very true. I took Spanish in high school and French in college, but I'm not really passionate about learning either language. With Spanish it was largely due to the fact that there were a lot of fluent Spanish speakers at my high school. Made Spanish boring. And for whatever reason, the school administration let fluent Spanish speakers take Spanish classes, which was not helpful at all for kids who didn't speak Spanish at home.

I have a university degree in Spanish, I used it regularly until a few years ago. I fumble and start, now when I speak, but it's nothing a couple weeks in Mexico or elsewhere wouldn't fix. As for the native speakers, remember, they may speak the language at home, but it's likely dialect unless mother is a grammar stickler. They normally have a very difficult time with it because they're not taught the alphabet and basic spelling until they encounter it in high school classes. Sure they can speak it immediately, but they're at a decided disadvantage trying to connect what they do know and what they're being taught.

The only true way of learning a language properly is to live in the country with the people and speak it. Being from NZ I am a natural English speaker but having lived (and now back again) in Norway, I know this first-hand. I learnt a smattering before I came here but tapes and books can't prepare you for dialectical differences, slang, etc.

It's the same for school or even university language learnings, they can prepare you very well but you'll never really "know" a language until you live with the people who use it and immerse yourself in it. That's when you realise that really learning a language is so much more than just what comes out of people's mouths.

Absolutely.

 

[warbird]

I think it is easier after learning the second language to learn more. My grandmother was fluent in 10 languages and knew how to speak in 2 or 3 more. , several which she didn't learn till adulthood.

I think immersion is obviously the best. For tapes and such i recommend Pimsleur. It is the system used by the military when they can't send someone to the immersion school. I have used it and it works well.

 

[LaMedicine]

Basically, I'd say the fastest/easiest way is "sink or swim", no matter what your age.

I've watched first hand the learning a second language situation, due to my father's job. I'm completely bilingual. Japanese/English, because of where I spent my childhood years, so I'm a sample of those who learn a different language early. What for me was foreign language studies was 6 years of French in a British (grade) school, U.S. Jr-Sr High and a year in pre med, plus 2 years of German, and 1 year of Latin in pre med as well. Total 14.5 years of English as native language or foreign language depending on where I was.

My brother, who as a toddler when Dad was first posted abroad, quickly became fluent in toddler Turkish (which was where we first went) then lost it just as quickly once we were back in Japan. He had only half of what I had of English as native language which was when we were living in the US, and while we were living there, my brother and I spoke to each other in English, spoke to our parents in English, and our parents would answer us in Japanese.lol As a result, he had a really hard time relearning Japanese when we came back here just after he turned 11. Bad enough time that he declared to my parents that the next time Dad got posted abroad, he was staying behind. Due to his work, he's fluent in English now, but some years before, Dad lamented that his English had a heavy Japanese accent despite his early start.

As far as I know, neither of my parents studied English formally until Dad's posting. I know my father did very well in German, which he studied in high school and in college, but I don't think my mother ever had any true foreign language schooling. They grew up in the immediate pre WWII days, so English was the *enemy's language* and learning it was frowned upon. So, they were already in their 30s when they landed in the sink or swim situation. Dad did very well, as he needed it for his work and he was THE best English speaker at MITI (Ministry of International Trade and Industry) until he quit. He read aloud in bed every morning, an English newspaper, and kept it up until about a year before his death. He was fluent till the end. My mother, on the other hand, learned to speak English passably well enough for social functions, but not much more than that, and I think that stems both from interest and neccessity. Both were lacking in her, compared to my father, and I haven't heard her speak English for over 30 years.

From what I have seen of my family, and of friends and colleagues, there is a basic aptitude in whether one picks up a new language relatively easily or not. Also, different people learn languages in different ways.

I was very much surprised at the number of people who have tried their hand at learning Japanese, as far as population goes, Japanese is a fairly minor language, or is just me who thinks so? Japanese pronunciation is probably one of the simplest, if not the simplest of any languages, and reading is even more easier, once you learn the alphabet, because it is completely phonetic--if you have a letter, you pronounce it only one way, there is no other pronunciation. However, it gets trickier when kanji, the Chinese characters in daily use come in, as there are about 3000 characters in daily use--and these are often read in 2-3 ways or more, and the same letter may have different meanings depending on the combination. Also, grammer and conversation is tricky because the syntaxes change with the relationship between people e.g. your elders, your juniors, family, colleagues, just friends, male, female. The deeper you go, the tricker it gets.
I've met foreigners here whose spoken Japanese is much much better than those of the younger Japanese generation, but I've also met those who've lived for years and yet can't or won't speak even just that enough for a simple expedition

 

[Joie DeVive]

I have a university degree in Spanish, I used it regularly until a few years ago. I fumble and start, now when I speak, but it's nothing a couple weeks in Mexico or elsewhere wouldn't fix. As for the native speakers, remember, they may speak the language at home, but it's likely dialect unless mother is a grammar stickler. They normally have a very difficult time with it because they're not taught the alphabet and basic spelling until they encounter it in high school classes. Sure they can speak it immediately, but they're at a decided disadvantage trying to connect what they do know and what they're being taught.

That's what we were taught in my education classes.

As a matter of fact, in my class which focused on English as a second language we read studies that suggested that students who have a primary language other than English may have trouble learning English beyond what they've learned in their first language.
In other words, if a student doesn't learn to write any of his first language, he may be at a severe disadvantage learning to write in English. This is why some ESL programs focus on teaching students in their primary language as well as English.
Now I can't swear by the validity of these studies, but if they are accurate, those students learning grammer for their first language in high school might be really doing themselves a favor.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

From what I have seen of my family, and of friends and colleagues, there is a basic aptitude in whether one picks up a new language relatively easily or not. Also, different people learn languages in different ways.

No truer words were spoken. Some people have more of a facility for language than others do. Furthermore, some have more aptitude in certain aspects of language than in others. Some students can write and read well but struggle to speak and hear, no matter how much phonetic practice they put in. All teachers know that certain students have a "tin ear." This goes beyond other considerations, such as the absence of certain sounds in students' native languages.


Yes, different people learn languages in different ways, according to their aptitudes. Some of us learn better physically, while others are 'problem solvers.' Some need to visualize language, while others do better by hearing it. A teacher with a small group of students can tailor his/her instruction to each pupil's aptitude(s). Large classes are a different kettle of fish.

.

 

[Novella]

As for the native speakers, remember, they may speak the language at home, but it's likely dialect unless mother is a grammar stickler. They normally have a very difficult time with it because they're not taught the alphabet and basic spelling until they encounter it in high school classes. Sure they can speak it immediately, but they're at a decided disadvantage trying to connect what they do know and what they're being taught.

That's very true. I usually did better than the native speakers when it came to spelling and written grammar tests. I was always really, really lost with all the oral dialog/conversation class exercises though. The school really should have put together some kind of written Spanish for speakers course instead of just placing everyone in the classes intended for those learning from scratch. I'm sure all of us would have benefited better that way.

 

[Diamondback]

The school really should have put together some kind of written Spanish for speakers course instead of just placing everyone in the classes intended for those learning from scratch. I'm sure all of us would have benefited better that way.

Unfortunately, that's too much work for a "one-size-fits-all, force-that-square-peg-into-the-round-hole" education system.

It is a really good idea, though.

 

[rockyj]

Not as hard as you think

It is said that in the United States - we screw up teaching our children a second language by waiting until High School. The part of the brain that readily absorbs language is long hard-wired by that point.

But suppose you want to learn a new language as an adult? I know a smattering of Italian, a teeny bit of German, enough French to find the bathroom. I'd love to learn all three. Russian too, but that's real hard.

What's the BEST way to learn a new lanugage as an adult student?

I had to learn Russian when I was getting my teachers certificate (some of the villages here still use some Russian) It was hard at first but, using it with other people and watching movies in that language helped. That "ROSETTA STONE" program is pretty good also

 

[Gary Crumrine]

Jack, I've been noodling around with Spanish and found a multi-media approach seems helpful. Rosetta Stone at home / Pimsleur audio disks in the car / a handy grammer book. Near as I can figure, if you know how to congugate the verbs and can remember a noun or two, you are on your way.

 

[Dr Doran]

My mother is a native French (Quebec) speaker, only learned English at 20, is completely bilingual because she spent the rest of her life in the USA. She taught my eldest brother French from birth, but he was made fun of in school and she decided not to teach the rest of us any French. He has forgotten all of it. I learned some French and some Italian in my 20s and can speak passably for small conversations and can translate articles if I have a dictionary.

After the age of 30 I started Latin and Ancient Greek, both difficult languages. I did well in them but I cannot say I can fluently read either, much less write them, and as someone noted earlier, few people speak either of them. (There is a spoken Latin movement centering around Father Reginald Foster's spoken Latin summer course in Rome and the Tunbergs' spoken Latin classes in the USA. And there is a spoken Ancient Greek program in modern Sparta, according to a friend of mine. But these are small phenomena.)

The best way I improved my Latin was TO TEACH IT TO UNDERGRADUATES. All of my fellow grad students say that teaching Latin or Greek helped and reviewed their abilities hugely. Review everything from the ground up every year if you can.

 

[ITG]

I've also heard that people who speak 2 languages have an easier time picking up a third language. I think some people have an easier time at it than others with language, just as some people have an easier time with math.

I was showing my husband this thread. He speaks 4 languages. He told me one thing that really helped him to learn a language is to think thoughts in his mind in that language instead of his native tongue. But I think he has a natural aptitude for it, so that probably helps him alot too. I know sometimes when I want to say something in Spanish (which I know very little of), my mind springs forth the words but in German and I'm not even fluent in German.

 

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

Very true. And soap operas work very well, too. Remarkably well, in fact.
.

That's funny, when I lived in Miami that's exactly how I got my Spanish back up to par .. watching afternoon novellas and the El Mundo morning show