Layering OVER a leather?

[Seb Lucas]

Thanks Dinerman you've confirmed what I thought.

 

[Dinerman]

Some examples:

 

[Seb Lucas]

Wow.

 

[navetsea]

I've found it.
"What to wear over my flight jacket", started on 30th November 2006

What to wear over a flight jacket?

- an aeroplane :first:

 

[Seb Lucas]

What to wear over a flight jacket?

- an aeroplane :first:

:eusa_clap

 

[HPA Rep]

Buzz Rickson's has a cheaper made in China line called United Carr. Here below are some of their quilted vests.

Technically, Blackadder, it's Toyo Enterprises Co., Ltd. that has the cheaper brand made in China that you noted. Buzz Rickson's is a brand owned by Toyo but there are absolutely no Buzz Rickson's-branded jackets made in China. I wanted to be perfectly clear on this, as I think I've seen you state on a few occasions that Buzz Ricksons' has some jackets made in China, which I can emphatically state is patently false, and I wanted this sort of misinformation to come to an immediate end at this point. I am not accusing you of any malice or deliberate spreading of misinformation; rather, I am trying to set the record straight.

If you don't mind, please explain what made you think Buzz had jackets made in China. Is it due to the United Carr brand or due to some experiments Buzz performed in China in the past?

Thank you!

 

[Rabbit]

Generally capeskin, sometimes other hides. It's easy to forget in the discussions of seven pound reproductions, that in the 1920s-1940s, many leather jackets filled the role a nylon windbreaker does today, of a lightweight jacket made for wind blocking, not for warmth.

Chamois was also used as a liner material in the early decades. I wonder if it rubbed off on whatever was worn under it.

 

[bn1966]

Getting colder post 16.00 hrs here in the UK, have taken to wearing an MA-1 over my A-2 when out riding

 

[Blackadder]

Technically, Blackadder, it's Toyo Enterprises Co., Ltd. that has the cheaper brand made in China that you noted. Buzz Rickson's is a brand owned by Toyo but there are absolutely no Buzz Rickson's-branded jackets made in China. I wanted to be perfectly clear on this, as I think I've seen you state on a few occasions that Buzz Ricksons' has some jackets made in China, which I can emphatically state is patently false, and I wanted this sort of misinformation to come to an immediate end at this point. I am not accusing you of any malice or deliberate spreading of misinformation; rather, I am trying to set the record straight.

If you don't mind, please explain what made you think Buzz had jackets made in China. Is it due to the United Carr brand or due to some experiments Buzz performed in China in the past?

Thank you!

I do not remember I ever specifically said that any Buzz products was made in China. I might have said a few times that the United Carr are made in China and I did say United Carr was cheaper line of Buzz which might have caused confusion. You have obviously cleared up any misunderstanding anyone might have about the relationship between Buzz, Toyo and for that matter United Carr. Most of Buzz products that I own and have seen are made without a country of origin label except their shirts, jeans and leather jackets so I don't even know where most of their products are made and I never speculate as to where those are made despite rumours and all.

I think someone else did sometime ago but not me
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?64632-New-Buzz-Rickson-Roughwear-AC-27752

If you mean this, I do apologize to those who have read that post for not making it crystal clear that I was referring to United Carr.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?72250-MA-1-Flight-jacket/page36

 

[tropicalbob]

On one of the threads some time ago, someone posted stills from 1930's German films showing men wearing the lighter leather jackets under overcoats. With that in mind, I brought my LHB along with my Austrian Loden coat on a trip to New York last winter when it was bitter cold. The Loden's nice and roomy and with the jacket under it I was perfectly comfortable and warm.

 

[pawineguy]

Technically, Blackadder, it's Toyo Enterprises Co., Ltd. that has the cheaper brand made in China that you noted. Buzz Rickson's is a brand owned by Toyo but there are absolutely no Buzz Rickson's-branded jackets made in China. I wanted to be perfectly clear on this, as I think I've seen you state on a few occasions that Buzz Ricksons' has some jackets made in China, which I can emphatically state is patently false, and I wanted this sort of misinformation to come to an immediate end at this point. I am not accusing you of any malice or deliberate spreading of misinformation; rather, I am trying to set the record straight.

If you don't mind, please explain what made you think Buzz had jackets made in China. Is it due to the United Carr brand or due to some experiments Buzz performed in China in the past?

Thank you!

Don't the labels say United Carr by Buzz Rickson's? So any of those jackets are made in Japan by Buzz?

 

[HPA Rep]

I do not remember I ever specifically said that any Buzz products was made in China. I might have said a few times that the United Carr are made in China and I did say United Carr was cheaper line of Buzz which might have caused confusion. You have obviously cleared up any misunderstanding anyone might have about the relationship between Buzz, Toyo and for that matter United Carr. Most of Buzz products that I own and have seen are made without a country of origin label except their shirts, jeans and leather jackets so I don't even know where most of their products are made and I never speculate as to where those are made despite rumours and all.

I think someone else did sometime ago but not me
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?64632-New-Buzz-Rickson-Roughwear-AC-27752

If you mean this, I do apologize to those who have read that post for not making it crystal clear that I was referring to United Carr.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?72250-MA-1-Flight-jacket/page36

No problemo, Blakadder. I thought you had mentioned a Chinese connection to Buzz Rickson's in the past, so if you did not, please accept my sincere apologies. There is definitely misinformation and bad rumors floating around about Buzz Rickson's point of manufacture and Eastman making jackets for them, in addition to who knows what about every brand we know of. I absolutely abhor rumor and misinformation that is potentially injurious to all brands and companies, especially when fact is usually easily ascertained, but human nature has, and likely will continue to go the course of least resistance and opt for the ease and lethargy of spinning myth vs. seeking truth.

Thank you for your time and attention to read my post. At least for this post on this day at this time, this myth is laid to rest.

 

[HPA Rep]

Don't the labels say United Carr by Buzz Rickson's? So any of those jackets are made in Japan by Buzz?

The labels shouldn't include the Buzz Rickson's name because the brands are fully separate and have nothing to do with each other.

United Carr products are not Buzz Rickson's products. UC items are made in China and lack much of the hyper-authentic detailing, hardware, and fabrics of a Buzz item; these UC items are for a different market, presumably, and at lower, different price points, so you won't get copies of vintage Crown zippers on a UC-made MA-1 or the correct nylon twill outer shell or wool batting inside, etc. UC items are more military styled or inspired in much the same way as you'd expect to see done by Avirex, Alpha, Schott, or just about any other maker not obsessed with making near-perfect copies of vintage military styles.

Buzz Rickson's jackets are made in Japan - leather, cotton, nylon - it's all made in Japan. Buzz did attempt to make some items in the USA, and they may do that again one day, but these would be blatantly marketed as such because that would add a marketing cache' to the Japanese consumer of such things. They also experimented with making the real good stuff labeled as BR in China years ago, but this was an experiment and no production runs or sales of these items took place. The Chinese factories they employed could not provide the level of quality and detail Toyo wanted for the BR brand and, eventually, the cost benefit from China was not much, so the project was dropped.

Buzz Rickson's jackets have been and remain made in Japan, and each item we market on our website clearly states the country of origin on the item page's description.

 

[pawineguy]

The labels shouldn't include the Buzz Rickson's name because the brands are fully separate and have nothing to do with each other.

United Carr products are not Buzz Rickson's products. UC items are made in China and lack much of the hyper-authentic detailing, hardware, and fabrics of a Buzz item; these UC items are for a different market, presumably, and at lower, different price points, so you won't get copies of vintage Crown zippers on a UC-made MA-1 or the correct nylon twill outer shell or wool batting inside, etc. UC items are more military styled or inspired in much the same way as you'd expect to see done by Avirex, Alpha, Schott, or just about any other maker not obsessed with making near-perfect copies of vintage military styles.

Buzz Rickson's jackets are made in Japan - leather, cotton, nylon - it's all made in Japan. Buzz did attempt to make some items in the USA, and they may do that again one day, but these would be blatantly marketed as such because that would add a marketing cache' to the Japanese consumer of such things. They also experimented with making the real good stuff labeled as BR in China years ago, but this was an experiment and no production runs or sales of these items took place. The Chinese factories they employed could not provide the level of quality and detail Toyo wanted for the BR brand and, eventually, the cost benefit from China was not much, so the project was dropped.

Buzz Rickson's jackets have been and remain made in Japan, and each item we market on our website clearly states the country of origin on the item page's description.

I'm not sure you've answered the question... there are plenty of jackets out there with the following labels: Does that mean they are all fakes or that Toyo did in fact at one time position United Carr as a "second label" to Buzz?

 

[HPA Rep]

I'm not sure you've answered the question... there are plenty of jackets out there with the following labels: Does that mean they are all fakes or that Toyo did in fact at one time position United Carr as a "second label" to Buzz?

I believe these are some special editions that were done, which I failed to mention but certainly should have mentioned. We didn't handle any of these, thus the specifics are not in my memory, but I can attempt to find out more about these. I'll make an inquiry to see what can be found out. Are you looking for any particular item?

 

[Graemsay]

Iron Heart sell a few vests designed to be worn over a jacket.

 

[2wheelgrplr]

Iron Heart sell a few vests designed to be worn over a jacket.

View attachment 36675

I was wearing this exact same combination while riding earlier today. Most cut-off denim jackets/vests will fit into this role (wearing over leather jackets), but doubt this look was intended with warmth factor in mind. Now, just as an over-leather-jacket option, then yes, definitely can't count this iconic look out for the overall perspective of this thread!

 

[Graemsay]

That particular vest has a flannel lining to increase its warmth.



There's also a (currently available) vest based on the N1 deck jacket, which is better insulated.



Whilst the denim cut-off over a leather is an iconic look, I'm not sure if it'll fit in with the aesthetic that a lot of people around here espouse.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Why do some people wear a vest over a leather leather jacket? I can understand an overcoat or waxed cotton field jacket for warmth, but is denim thing is just about aesthetics, club colours...?

 

[Bunyip]

I saw an episode of "Hell On Wheels" last night where the main character (Anson Mount) had his leather vest on under a big, wool sort of jacket. It looked 100% badass. Of course that guy would look good in a potato sack. There's a lot of stuff that can be layered, but I've see some epic fails too...

I agree. He is an absolute machine. I can't wait to see how the Dutchman dies! It's going to be big...