Ladies suits

[Wild Root]

It's good to pick up what you may never see again. Means that it's worth the time and money. I have seen some of Matt's ladies hats and they are rare!

Cheers,

Root.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

And don't forget the age issue. During the 1920's, with the post-WW1 generation you had the first real "youth culture" that ever existed in America which had a large influence on fashion. The women's styles, especially of the mid 20's was very youth-oriented. Older or larger women simply look absurd wearing youthful 20's dresses. They require not only a slim figure but a flat chest as well.

By the 30's, that generation of women was older (and probably a bit larger and more busty) and to some extent the fashions of the day reflect that. A much larger percentage of women look good in 30's styles than they do in 20's styles. You also have hemlines going down, which is also probably associated with the age issue.

 

[jitterbugdoll]

I'm not sure I would agree with you...yes, the 1920s 'Flapper Age' was a young women's trend, but it would be incorrect to assume that all young women in that time frame were small busted. I have seen plenty of photos of busty young women who did indeed look sloppy and matronly in their straight, boyish frocks. It's simply that they did not have the 'chosen' build for that generation, and not that they were truly old and matronly. All ‘trends’ in fashion are aimed at young people; the previous generation tends to cling very firmly to the ideals from their youth and so for the most part do not attempt to copy their children. In fact, many parents look down their noses at their children’s choices—especially when they were raised in a very socially rigid era. Consider the 1920s again—this is the age of the ‘new’, liberated woman, who had just received her first real taste of feminism and some of the freedoms that only men had been privy to up until the very recent past. When you look at it that way, it is easy to see why the preferred build was a boyish one (and thus fashion was shaped to fit this figure)—having breasts was considered a hindrance to your new freedoms because they just plain got in the way! If all women were small-chested, we would not see the bust flatteners and corsets still in existence in this time frame. You see, those who were well-endowed, yet still wanted to be fashionable, had to flatten their charms in order to fit the clothing properly. Now of course there are exceptions to every fashion era—there are always those who chose to embrace their own style. Consider Mae West, for example. Even as a young women, she was very voluptuous and full-figured. Rather than strap herself into garments that would flatten her bust and narrow her hips, she choose to embrace the styles of an even earlier generation. She made those styles, which conformed to the voluptuous image of the Victorian age, work to her advantage. She would not have the same sultry appeal had she attempted to be something she was not!

And I also don’t consider 1930s clothing to be designed for larger breasts; it does work well on a proportionate figure (hips and bust roughly the same measurements), but a person who is full-busted but narrow hipped tends too look very top heavy and unbalanced in the slinky silhouette (and the same garment draws attention to a pear-shaped women weak areas as well.) As for hemlines, you see a pull from the shorter 20s garments (which truly had only a very brief heyday) to longer lines, as they were attempting to put glamour in clothing during a time when life was not terribly glamorous for most people. The rise and fall of the hemline has occurred continuously over many eras; you often see modern articles discussing the latest length. It seems that when you end up at one extreme, the fashion tide gradually pulls towards the other extreme. Interestingly, my experience working in the fashion industry has taught me that calf-length or tea length hemline (roughly day dress length for the early-mid 30s) is the hardest length to carry off. If you are petite, it cuts you in half. If you do not have very shapely legs, this length only adds to their bulk. Truly, just below or above the knee and ankle length hemlines are the most flattering. Shapely movie stars seem to pull the length off much better, of course…

Of course, certain eras like the 1950s, with its full, curvy designs, do work well with an older women’s fuller figure. But, these styles were also worked to the max by 20-somethings—consider Marilyn Monroe, Jayne Mansfield, and Jane Russell—full-busted, young women who had all the charms to fit the ideals of the 50s. And again, the general move in fashion, from the streamlined garments of the wartime 40s, to the full, curvy garments of the late 1940s, has much to do with the social climate of the time, and not age. When one is denied the clothing she dreams of (really, just the freedom to be able to buy what she wants), it would only be natural for her to be drawn to the luxury of a dress made with yards of fabric free from rationing!

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I didn't mean to say that all 20's women were small-busted. In each of these eras, I would say that the overall shape of women is identical with perhaps a general upward trend towards people being a bit larger as time goes on.

My point was just that some styles are far more exclusively aimed at a certain figure than others, they are simply less forgiving. The 20's "boyish" style was one of those. The 30's "slinky" style gave a bit more leeway in terms of women it would fit well.

And of course, some styles are more suited to larger-proportioned women, like that of the 50's. Marilyn Monroe wouldn't look all that good in a 20's dress, as "Some like it hot" indicates.

Of course a lot of fashion is aimed at the young, but some generations seem to cause reactionary effects in the next generation, or else influence it themselves. Obviously the socio-economic mood of the times also has an influence, such as the Great Depression.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I've put alot of study and thought into this and from the many many images I have seen I am pretty certain that the women of the twenties had pretty much the same bust proportions as the women in the 30's and 40's. More careful analysis may be needed. I'm also open to studying modern bust proportions.

 

[BellyTank]

So where did you get all these images of '20s busts then?
Been downloading stereoscope pics on the Wireless?
B



T

 

[jamespowers]

More careful analysis may be needed. I'm also open to studying modern bust proportions.

Where do I sign up?

Regards to all,

J

 

[Matt Deckard]

Where do I sign up?

Regards to all,

J

Please... leave this study to the experts.

 

[jamespowers]

Please... leave this study to the experts.

I could always learn. There must be classes for this stuff.

Regards to all,

J :cheers1:

 

[Wild Root]

I assure you, Matt's research is all in the name of science.

Root.

 

[swinggal]

hehe...you guys....

Womens breasts in the 20's were strapped 'flat' so they could fit into the boyish fashions of the time. They didn't have smaller breasts, they were just less prominant and the fashion of time drew attention away from breasts to legs and necks. People were however, generally shorter then and of smaller stature.

The bras of the early 20s include home made ones in white cotton and which were little more than bust bodices with a bit of extra separation. Some bras were like camisoles and they offered no support. God know what happened to the shape of their boobs!!

 

[Matt Deckard]

 

[Wild Root]

I find that the art in fashion ads are quite idealistic. There may have been some women that looked that (cough) streamlined back in the 20’s but I’m sure that not all women who lived back then wanted to look that boyish.

Here is a nice photo of Louise Brooks and here I see some one that looks rather fetching. The 1920’s had a different idea of what was sexy and I find that the 20’s were more sexual in style then most periods then that of the 40’s and 50’s. Roaring 20’s ring a bell? Look at most Art Deco design, the female nude was depicted in sculptures, graphics, lamps, building’s décor and art work of the time. It lasted well into the 30’s as well.

Yes, it may seem that the shape of the female body was some what repressed in the 20’s as depicted in most catalog graphics. However, there was such a boom in film and photography of Josephine Baker and Hedy Lamar exposing them selves on the silver screen in the 20’s and early 30’s before sensor ship came into place.

Also the term “Flapper� comes to mind. I could be wrong but wasn’t that from the fact that some women didn’t wear much means of under garments?

Any way, it’s very interesting what some women would do to stay in trend in any time period!

Root.

 

[jamespowers]

I assure you, Matt's research is all in the name of science.

Yeah, research. Yeah, yeah that's the ticket--research.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Lauren]

First off, the fashion illustrations were no way to judge actual fashion. Take a look in a high fashion magazine today like I-D or W and see what I mean. Do you know ANYONE that wears fashion the way they display it? We can't make it look flattering and afford it, even if we chose to wear it. There has always been the "trickle down" effect in fashion. the elite or designers create a style, flaunt it as the "newest vogue" and then the public either copy, alter, or make it so they can actually live in it!

Yes, the epitomy of 20's fashion was a narrow, flat, and boyish figure, which was obtained by wrapping the breasts, wearing a bra (I believe they were adopted by some of the public in the teens, though the concept had been around since roman times), and wearing a corset. YES! They wore corsets in the 20's! People are mad to say they dissapeared after the edwardian era! Corsets contined in some form all the way through the 50's, even if they were called something different, the concept and purpose was still the same (and don't we wish we could warn our grandmothers of the wearing of maternity cosets? Yup, they were even around in the 30's). this is not to say that every woman adopted the form. I would say that most women looked downright frumpy in 20's attire. It takes a strong spirit and a load of undergarments or a naturally thin figure to pull it off according to the 20's fashion ideals we have in modern day (and I don't mean a sack with fringe sewn on to it. Please, people, all girls weren't flappers, and certainly not all flappers wore fringe!). Overall, I would have to agree with Vladimir Berkov on his points on the 20's if we're talking high fashion.

And to say that the 30's were for large busted women? Believe me, I'm lacking in the department and it comes to my rescue. Go take a look at early 30's films and take a look at their busts. I give my utmost permission. Stare away. The illusion of big breasts was made with wild colors and pattern insets. Women were as tightly laces as before. Ask a girl with a little wieght how a bias cut dress in her size fits. Most of the time they end up getting a size larger to not have to deal with undergarments. Now, approaching the 40's the fashions look great on a woman with a larger bust. when you widen the shoulders, the bust doesn't look so dang noticable. But in the early 30's the styles were still very youthful, but more sophisiticated. The lines of the early to mid 30's still were best adopted by a lanky figure, though with smaller curves (unless you're Gene Harlow or Bette Davis). Note the tricks they used on these women. Bette Davis and Gene Harlow both had large breasts. Look at the detailing of the costumes and how it draws your eyes away from the bustline. In the case of Bette Davis, this may be little more than 3" above the waist .

Again, look to the movies. Styles that distinguished age are not a modern invention. Look at what the young heroine wears in comparison to the middle aged aunt or grandmother. A perfect example would be Now Voyager. You've got the spinster aunt that uses *Gasp* no foundation garments and middle aged clothes transformed into the image of loveliness. You've got the young girl in teen clothes, you've got the middle aged sister in aproriate and sophisticated styles, and you've got the grandma still in her Edwardian finery.

Cheers.

 

[Matt Deckard]

 

[Matt Deckard]

Something current

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Does anybody know what materials vintage womens suits were made of?

Whenever I am shopping with a woman, I am always surprised how the material quality never is an issue for them as it would be for most men interested in quality clothes.

Were vintage women's suits often made of rayon or other synthetics?

 

[jamespowers]

Something current

Gee, that looks easy. Grab your husband's suit some pumps and a blouse and you are ready.

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Does anybody know what materials vintage womens suits were made of?

Whenever I am shopping with a woman, I am always surprised how the material quality never is an issue for them as it would be for most men interested in quality clothes.

Were vintage women's suits often made of rayon or other synthetics?

Women's suits were made of many different materials. From the golden age you will find gaberdine, wool, various blends, Palm Beach Goodall material (just as for men) and cotton. There are others but I just can't remember them now. Someone else will fill in for sure.

Regards to all,

J