Ladies Coats: 40s vs 50s vs 60s

[23SkidooWithYou]

I searched forums and via google and didn't find a thread that seemed appropriate. I also saw the Outerwear section but the topic appears to center around gentlemens coats. Combine, move, or shoot me lol whichever I deserve.

My eyes are jittering up and down from searching coats. I am looking for something 50's to wear with shirtwaist dresses and crinolines (something more everyday). How do I distinguish 50's from 40's or 60's? When did the 3/4 sleeve and little fur collars pop up? (I get more of a 60's feel as the bottom sweep starts to narrow on these.) If your dress sleeves were full length, did you wear a full length sleeve or glove up over your sleeves? Was it okay if the hem of the coat was above the hem of the dress so it stuck out? Even if it was sort of wide/swing, did the coat ever restrict the skirt? Did the coat always match the dress/ensemble? If not, did you match your shoes/purse to the coat or the dress?

If anyone has visuals, it would be much appreciated!

 

[Lauren]

Hiya! I don't have any visuals at the moment, but I can tell you that coats are one of the most misidentified vintage items on the market! People always think 60s coats are 50s, 50s are 40s, and 40s are 30s! Don't always take a sellers word that a coat is the date they claim. Some folks really do have it spot on but coats can be somewhat deceiving.
The little coats with 3/4 sleeves are fur collars that you see pop up quite frequently are usually late 50s-60s.
A great source is to go to the vintage pattern wiki and search for "coat".
They'll often be dated and you can see the progression of styles. McCall patterns are dated so they're usually spot on for accuracy while some other patterns can be misdated sometimes
http://vintagepatterns.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Coats
Hope that helps!

 

[23SkidooWithYou]

Lauren,

Thanks for the resource! (go to the source, lol) Oh, sister! Thank heavens I can't sew a stitch or I would have the pattern monkey on my back too. I already digressed and spent a few moments looking at a nighty/robe set thinking, "Oh, I'd make that for sure!".

This helps a lot!

I absolutely agree...the decades are all over the place in describing coats. I've seen some that I *think* are 80's described as 50's. Sometimes I can tell by the label and the style of graphics used but the questionable ones never have the tags present. Aint that ironic??? lol

 

[miss_smith]

I'd say out of the three, the mid 40s are easiest to distinguish, although being fashion, late 40s-early 50s are going to be tough because there is never a clear cut line!
A typical early/mid 40s coat should be fairly conservative in size and shape, with a boxy silhouette, like this:
http://ny-image2.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.99633434.jpg
In the late forties, early fifties, they got lengthier since hemlines went down again. They also flared somewhat as petticoats began to regain popularity:
http://ny-image1.etsy.com//il_430xN.110275229.jpg
For mid fifties through early sixties, the shoulder was a bit more sloped; kimono sleeves were common in both coats and dresses. They were fuller at the bottom to accomodate a bigger petticoat. They also often had shorter sleeves because of longer gloves being very much in vogue:
http://ny-image1.etsy.com//il_430xN.56351405.jpg
For the sixties in general, with the onslaught of sheath dresses, one could also have a very straight silhouetted coat, much like the forties one, but with a narrower shoulder:
http://ny-image0.etsy.com//il_430xN.115188240.jpg

Unfortunately, there were tons of permutations of both straight and fuller silhouettes during all three decades, so really, anything goes. Good luck!
A good way to guage the era is by trying to imagine what sort of dress would be worn with it because your coat would, in theory, match the silhouette, length, etc.

 

[23SkidooWithYou]

Miss Smith,

The early 50's is what I had in mind, in particular the left model you posted:

You guys might think I'm crazy, but I invested a lot of hours today, just looking at coat patterns and coats. With a McCall's 1951 and 1952 pattern for reference, I went hunting, found my target, researched the label and discovered evidence that could place the coat between 1952 and 1958. The mfg "Country Tweeds" credits the woolen mill on the label, Eigniger Mills. According to an FTC complaint, Country Tweeds had stopped sourcing from Eigniger in 1958 and took on another supplier. So, that gave me a date range.

Here's what I got:

I had so much fun looking at the patterns (wishing I could sew) and finding a match!

 

[miss_smith]

DId you buy it? It is really pretty! And I don't think you're crazy at all, I spend hours looking at patterns. Good job on the research, by the way.

 

[Lillemor]

Skidoo, I'm so glad you brought this up. For those of us who didn't live back then (or weren't observant of fashion) it's hardest to distinguish something from an end of a decade and beginning of another decade, especially if all we have to go by are fashion magazines and catalogs of the era. Thanks miss_smith.

 

[23SkidooWithYou]

Lillemor, I couldn't agree more! Not having lived the 50's, I get one "look" in mind and think it defines the entire decade. Studying those patterns yesterday was really something. There's so much MORE out there once you start exploring! The looks were varied and certainly evolved throughout the decade. Even more confusing is that the look changed depending on the occasion...at home (there is a pattern for a "Tee Vee Coat" that if I ever find in my size may prompt me to try sewing, lol, ladies lunch, formal wear...the coats changed even if it was the same year. Lots to take in, but oh, so much fun!

I did, indeed, purchase the coat. I also forgot to mention that I found a c1952 print ad for Country Tweeds Kashmoor (which explained it's a wool-nylon blend, they have an inner insulating lining and then the 3rd layer is the satin lining but are described as "feather-light"). The coat was very similar but had nice turn back cuffs that mine seems to lack...will have to check when I receive it.

Here you can see how McCall's line changed over just a few years:

c1951

c1952

c1953 (at home)

c1954 (fitted)

c1954

c195? (formal)

 

[Lillemor]

Then why do women in their 70s-80s always ask "why do you need one more?!". Such hypocrites!

I had my dad (b.1943 Fort Worth, TX. Grew up in NorCal) look at a bunch of images from around the net of stuff I liked "something" about but I couldn't quite define, (all of stuff from the 1920s-50s) I couldn't see a red thread and I needed help identifying various stuff as well. He could identify all the 40s-50s cars and details about them but he came to short on most of the clothing.lol

 

[TracyB]

I have been trying to search, but haven't found anything so I will add this question here.

Would you say that the styles for fur would have followed as well? I would htink that since if a lady owned a fur it was assumed that it wouldn't be replaced with style therefore maybe harder to date.

But are there any particular features taht may be used to date?

My grandmother was a model in the 40's and I have a number of her items, photos and hats, but nothing with her in this fur. The only furs that I remember her wearing were modern 70's and 80's design.

So some particulars. The fur is "banded" in approximately 1/2" strips rather than the thicker continuous pelts of today. so it appears the coat is complete where rather it has a courdoury-like whale to it.

The collar is round stand up

The sleves are very tailored, defined shoulder (no pad) and have teh round gathering to them

There are no buttons but fabric covered metal large hook and eyes.

Does any of these specifics rule this one way or the other? I appologise for not technically using the correct terms, I really am not sure so I described them to the best of my ability. The initials monogramed onto the inside pocket are not my grandmothers, but do have the same initial as her maiden name. So that may be the tipping point of the dating if everything else matches.

Thanks ladies!!
I wish it were as easy as dating my sidesaddle habit. Since that was bespoke, the label showing the exact date of fabrication is on the label in the pocket.

 

[miss_smith]

I honestly would take it to a store that specializes in furs. I don't know if they're a chain, but we have a place called WM. H. Harris.
I would assume they somewhat followed fashion trends, but as far as I can tell, ready-made furs made today are either cut almost the same as in the 50s and 60s because the people that are still buying them are from that era, or (I found this to be in Quebec) they're really WEIRD patchwork, ruffly hippie/eskimo creations.