L.L.Bean scraps lifetime return policy

[PrettySquareGal]

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/09/l-l-bean-scraps-lifetime-return-policy/

Thoughts?

 

[scotrace]

Dipstick beancounters have been urging for decades. Mistake.

 

[Fading Fast]

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/09/l-l-bean-scraps-lifetime-return-policy/

Thoughts?

From the email LL Bean sent out, this caught my eye:

Some view it as a lifetime product replacement program, expecting refunds for heavily worn products used over many years. Others seek refunds for products that have been purchased through third parties, such as at yard sales.
​

As always, the few - grubby, deceitful anglers - ruined it for the rest of us. I've dealt with Bean for several decades and would never (as I imagine most would never) expect Bean to replace or refund an old product that has performed well and has reached the end of its useful life. Also, I can't imagine buying something at a yard sale and then trying to get Bean to refund it - what is wrong with people.

I have been wearing Bean boots for decades and have happily paid Bean to have them "refurbished" after many, many years of wear took the tread down to nothing. It is a great service - not inexpensive, but fair. Recently, I did have one bottom fall apart in its second year (I had bought it on line and had clear proof) and Bean couldn't have been nicer about replacing it without issue (and offered a full refund instead, but we just wanted the boot).

This from the letter, though, did encourage me as, my guess, if you play fair with Bean, they will still play fair with you:

...After one year, we will work with our customers to reach a fair solution if a product is defective in any way.​

Common sense, fair play and decency would have made the policy change unnecessary, but of course, the few needed to push every angle, squeeze every nickel, play every game and they ruined it for the rest of us.

 

[seres]

A necessary step. According to their press release…

“Smith said the company is specifically cracking down on two forms of product return abuse: returns of older items that are not defective but merely worn down from regular use or totally undamaged (because the customer outgrew the item or wanted an upgrade), and returns of items purchased from a third party such as Goodwill or a yard sale.

About 15 percent of recent product returns abused the lenient guarantee policy – double what it was just a few years ago, Smith said.”

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's well known in Maine that Beans dumps excess/liquidated/factory seconds at Goodwill. Usually, the labels will be defaced/cut out before this happens as a check against illicit returns of these items -- but evidently that's not security enough anymore.

The "merchandise return" scam was a common thing in the Era, when ready-to-wear dresses were commonly sold with a washer or a lead sinker sewn conspicuously to the hem. This was intended to foil purchasers who'd buy an expensive dress for a special occasion, wear it, and immediately return it after the event was over. Removal of the washer or sinker, however, voided any return obligation.

 

[scotrace]

With the added info, it seems like a decent solution to what is a real problem for the company. I’m sure they’ll still be great to work with.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

L.L.Bean had this policy in place right before the new change to one year only that addressed not accepting returns from yard sales, etc but left the overall guarantee intact:

Easy Returns & Exchanges

We make pieces that last, and if they don't, we want to know about it. L.L. himself always said that he "didn't consider a sale complete until goods are worn out and the customer still satisfied." Our guarantee is a handshake – a promise that we'll be fair to each other. So if something's not working or fitting or standing up to its task or lasting as long as you think it should, we'll take it back.

Details and Special Conditions
To help protect our customers and make sure every return or exchange is dealt with fairly, we may either require a receipt or decline a return or exchange in certain situations, including:

• Items that were not purchased directly from L.L.Bean (such as items purchased at thrift stores, online sellers or garage sales)
• Items with a missing label or an item that has been defaced
• On rare occasions, based on the nature of prior transactions
• Without a receipt and a valid ID in our stores
• Items that have been soiled or contaminated, until they have been cleaned
• Items lost or damaged due to fire, flood, natural disaster, or accidents (including pet damage)
• Items returned for personal reasons unrelated to product satisfaction
• Returns on ammunition either in our stores or through the mail

Misuse of the Return Policy
Unfortunately, it's a reality. Most of the time, it involves attempted returns of pieces purchased elsewhere – at flea markets, yard sales or online. That's not part of the deal. If you're donating to charity, you can help us by marking each item's label with an X. That way, we can tell when the item has not been purchased directly from us.

This seemed pretty thorough, so the move to one year only seems drastic and ill-advised.

 

[seres]

There are always people who try to "scam" the system. Amazon needs to tighten their return policy, too. I've actually read posts on "other" forums where the poster brags about ordering a product, wearing or using it once for an important occasion, and then returning it, with Amazon's "free returns" policy.

 

[scottyrocks]

I heard about this on the radio on the way home from work today. I see nothing wrong with an up-to-one-year, and receipt needed return policy. Even that can be looked at as too lenient.

I'm sure it's not a few people. The bean counters had to have had that figured in, originally. I suspect it was getting put of hand.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There's more to the story that the national media doesn't seem to be telling. All is not well in the land of the shammy-shirt and the duck boot: the Bean office in Freeport earlier this week announced that it plans to cut its workforce in Maine by 500 people thru buyouts for workers over the age of 50, and will also eliminate its pension program. The company is not in good shape, largely because recent generations of the Bean family are not very bright.

 

[sheeplady]

"The first generation earns the wealth, the second maintains it, and the third spends it"

I took a backpack for replacement at an outlet store. It was probably 10 years old, but had broken about 8 years before. I had kept it because I intended to replace the zipper myself and assumed they wouldnt take it back. I had bought a new one, two in fact. I only took it back because I happened to meet an employee ands we got to talking about how nice their backpacks were... . I got store credit at the outlet store, and being an outlet, I got two backpacks and a travel kit for less than $5 out of pocket. When I wanted kits for the kids, I went back, even though they were no longer an outlet.

 

[3fingers]

There's more to the story that the national media doesn't seem to be telling. All is not well in the land of the shammy-shirt and the duck boot: the Bean office in Freeport earlier this week announced that it plans to cut its workforce in Maine by 500 people thru buyouts for workers over the age of 50, and will also eliminate its pension program. The company is not in good shape, largely because recent generations of the Bean family are not very bright.

https://www.pressherald.com/2017/02...ement-buyout-to-trim-workforce-by-10-percent/
Spin, spin, spin.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Note especially that rank and file workers were banned from speaking to the media, with the exception of a couple of carefully selected and groomed spokespeople. Behind the smiling paternalism is a company with a history of shady labor practices.

 

[Fading Fast]

https://www.pressherald.com/2017/02...ement-buyout-to-trim-workforce-by-10-percent/
Spin, spin, spin.

Boy did it ever read like spin. I was surprised Bean still had a pension plan as most of those were jettisoned in the private sector in the '90s (the brokerage firm I worked for at the time got rid of its in '96). Then again, I'd rather see a company cut costs to survive, then go belly up later as that means 100% layoffs - but there was not enough in that article to say what is really happening at the company.

"The first generation earns the wealth, the second maintains it, and the third spends it"
....

Yup ⇧. Bean, surprisingly, has survived longer than usual as a family run business. And, like Ford eventually did, they have brought in an outside CEO so maybe there's hope.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Boy did it ever read like spin. I was surprised Bean still had a pension plan as most of those were jettisoned in the private sector in the '90s (the brokerage firm I worked for at the time got rid of its in '96). Then again, I'd rather see a company cut costs to survive, then go belly up later as that means 100% layoffs - but there was not enough in that article to say what is really happening at the company.



Yup ⇧. Bean, surprisingly, has survived longer than usual as a family run business. And, like Ford eventually did, they have brought in an outside CEO so maybe there's hope.

No hope and he's not that new. He is a former Walmart China CEO and must be behind what we're now seeing:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-smith-306b2515/

 

[Fading Fast]

No hope and he's not that new. He is a former Walmart China CEO and must be behind what we're now seeing:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-smith-306b2515/

That's disappointing. But I guess when you "go outside the family" it still matters if you choose well or not. Ford hit the ball out of the park with Alan Mulally, but he's retired and Ford is struggling again. Capitalism ain't easy even on the capitalists.

Also, maybe Bean just isn't a sustainable business model in a world of cheap / "fast" fashion - most retailers are struggling.

 

[3fingers]

I personally do not own much from them. A shirt or two I believe. My wife has a few things, including a winter coat which she likes very much. I lost a lot of my interest in paying premium money for their products quite a few years ago when thumbing through the catalog showed mostly imported merchandise. The image they portrayed and the reality were far different. My perception was that they wanted you to think of old Maine and not think of an Asian woman furiously churning out product for peanuts.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Thing was, Bean didn't really become a "fashion" company until the preppy craze of the '80s, and when you read what Mr. Useta B. Walmart has to say there, it seems like they're considering that as the model they want to follow into the future. A fashion craze has the lifespan of the average pollywog, and those who live by them will inevitably perish by them.

Within ten to fifteen years, I predict Bean will be bought out and turned into just another brand in a "portfolio of brands." It will retain the Freeport store as a Maine presence for branding purposes, but what manufacturing they still do here will be outsourced to Bangladesh and/or China. I expect even the call centers will be overseas soon.

This trend has been going on for a while now.The "Bean Logo T-Shirts" I ground out for ten hours a day on a production line in 1987 have been made in China for decades. Even when they were making them in the US their practices were shady -- contractors were expected to meet production quotas by any means necessary, if that meant removing safety guards from equipment and letting workers get body parts mangled during speedups, well, those people don't buy our stuff anyway.

 

[Fading Fast]

I personally do not own much from them. A shirt or two I believe. My wife has a few things, including a winter coat which she likes very much. I lost a lot of my interest in paying premium money for their products quite a few years ago when thumbing through the catalog showed mostly imported merchandise. The image they portrayed and the reality were far different. My perception was that they wanted you to think of old Maine and not think of an Asian woman furiously churning out product for peanuts.

I am not disputing this ⇧ one bit - full stop. Separately, I believe I've read that their traditional boots are still made in Maine (but don't remember where I read that, but it was in the last few years, so it might have changed).

Thing was, Bean didn't really become a "fashion" company until the preppy craze of the '80s, and when you read what Mr. Useta B. Walmart has to say there, it seems like they're considering that as the model they want to follow into the future. A fashion craze has the lifespan of the average pollywog, and those who live by them will inevitably perish by them.

Within ten to fifteen years, I predict Bean will be bought out and turned into just another brand in a "portfolio of brands." It will retain the Freeport store as a Maine presence for branding purposes, but what manufacturing they still do here will be outsourced to Bangladesh and/or China. I expect even the call centers will be overseas soon.

This trend has been underway for a while now. The "Bean Logo T-Shirts" I ground out for ten hours a day on a production line in 1987 have been made in China for decades. Even when they were making them in the US their practices were shady -- contractors were expected to meet production quotas by any means necessary, if that meant removing safety guards from equipment and letting workers get body parts mangled during speedups, well, those people don't buy our stuff anyway.

I would not take the other side of this as we've seen it to often (you just describe Coach to a tee (or "to a T"?) - I'd probably shorten your timeline to five years. The only thing I'd add is that the outsourcing you describe might be replaced by automation as wages rise in developing countries (in part, thankfully, as some of the worst labor abuses are being addressed - not everywhere, not fast enough, but it is having an impact) and robotics technology improves while its costs fall.

 

[Fading Fast]

Another thought on Bean. Public companies have to grow to survive the capital demands of the public investment universe. But Bean isn't public, so it could, if it wanted to, go in a different direction.

Many private companies exist without growing and do fine. Many local businesses make the same / less / more profit year in and year out and - as long as it is enough for the owner to pay the business' bills and make enough to support his/her family - they go on doing their thing.

What I've read over the years is that the Bean's owners want the business to be more like a public company. My guess, as the family grows through successive generations, the demands for more profit is pushing the company toward a public company "attitude." (Think 31 great grandchildren [making the number up] of Leon Leonwood and their families all wanting dividend payments.)

To be sure, private companies still have to compete in a marketplace - which, for Bean, means competing with low-cost imports, fast fashion, on-line start ups, etc. - which might be too much for even a private Bean not trying to grow to survive. But it is possible that if Bean's owners didn't want/need to grow fast, it could keep doing what it's been doing for over a hundred years.

There's not enough info in the articles I've read to argue definitively, but I'd bet the need to grow to support a lot more Bean mouths is what is behind the outside CEO and other public company like behaviors.