'Judgements' by rosea posey

[Lady Day]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/roseaposey/7173294256/in/photostream/

I've seen this image for months making its wave over again on the tubal interwebs and I was curious how you ladies felt about it and the perceptions of skirt length. I think there is a lot of perceived truth to it, because this image is about outside perception.

What are your thoughts?

 

[lareine]

I think it's rubbish, mainly because maxi dresses were very fashionable over the last few summers and there is nothing matronly about the girls who wear them. It's all down to the attitude of the wearer, not the length of the hem.

It's easy to make an outfit look dowdy or tarty because of a poorly chosen hem length but there is no one-size-fits-all hem length that is correct in every case.

 

[Lady Day]

I don't think this is the artist's perception of what skirt lengths this long are, but the modern perception, or perhaps more acutely, the modern male perception.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I was always taught that the best length for a skirt was for the hem to fall precisely where the calf begins to curve back into the knee -- about the point labeled "Old Fashioned" on the diagram. As far as my own aesthetics go, I've never seen a knee yet that was particularly worthy of being exposed to the public gaze. I don't have any particular opinion on longer skirts, except that if you're going to wear them you need to make sure the hems don't drag on the ground and get dirty.

As far as perceptions go, I've seen the way certain patrons at the theatre look at the kids when they show up for work in short skirts, and if I judge the skirt as too short I make them wear an apron. They may grumble about it now, but they'll thank me later.

We might not like the idea of people making such judgements based on skirt length, but that's not going stop them from doing it -- this is an oversexualized era we're living in, and people immersed in the attitudes of this era are going to make judgements based on the values they're being taught.

 

[St. Louis]

I find that whole image, as well as the written judgments--particularly the word "whore," not to mention the fact that it's been written on a woman's body kind of depressing. This proves to me, once again, that we haven't made much progress in this century.

Note that most of the judgments are demeaning and negative. Why not have a photograph of a woman's heart or brain, and draw lines all over it indicating qualities like, "intelligent," or "decent" or "funny"?

Sorry, okay, I'll get off my soapbox now.

That said, I like all the skirt lengths beginning in the mid-thirties through the early forties: i.e., lower calf to just below the knee. I find them pretty and flattering. Too much longer, and they can be hard to wear and less becoming, and too much shorter ... well. I confess that I'll make judgments about very short skirts, but I'd never call any woman an insulting name simply because she dressed in a way that I, myself, might not choose to wear.

 

[Lady Day]

I confess that I'll make judgments about very short skirts, but I'd never call any woman an insulting name simply because she dressed in a way that I, myself, might not choose to wear.

I think that's the point of this image. Its not about calling someone these names, its a bout your perception of someone in an outfit you deem 'offensive' you might not say it aloud, but you don't police your thoughts as well as you police your words.

I'll tell you all how I think of this image. A rather honest and biting commentary of the objectification of women condensed into one single visual, and specific words that, in their history, have been used to identify the female form's fashion in a mixed company's 'civilized' society. This is more a PSA than an actual image. Its a visual representation of what people think about these skirt lengths on women. It's not a literal image, nor is it judging the placement of the words, like the growth spurt of a toddler. Its an image that is a visual aid to the judgements people make in their heads.

All in all I find it pretty clever to put that much information into one image and have it be digested by it's viewer that quickly.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Note too that it isn't just what we used to call "easy women" who are being stigmatized by these phrases. The below-the-knee assessments are every bit as insulting as those above the knee. The message is clear -- if a woman doesn't adhere precisely to modern-day sexual mores, as judged by a particular type of man and a particular type of woman, she's Unacceptable. Proof once again that the idea that modern society is somehow less judgemental than that of the past is a wishful fiction.

 

[Louise Anne]

I see that image as been done by some one who deliberately wanting to wind up ladies on the web.
I actually do not even think it's worth giving any thought too.

 

[Lady Day]

The image was a class project, Louise Anne, and one in a series as it describes in the link I posted, so it was not simply made to get people wound up on the internet.

Edit*
By the by, men are welcome in this discussion as well.

 

[Chasseur]

I hope you ladies do not mind a gent butting in here, if you do just remove my post or ask me to remove it, really not a problem.

I work at a university so I am around young people quite a bit. One thing that has continued to surprise me (maybe it shouldn't?) is how many of young ladies today seem to think the really short skirt or dress is the only option they have. I do not really have any strong views on skirt length other than everything has its time and place: most people should wear that they like and feel comfortable in. However, I do not think wearing really short skirts is a good idea in most professional environments. Just like a guy wearing a tight muscle shirt is probably not a good choice for office attire...

I do a fair amount of post-grad career advising for students, including how to dress for various job sectors. My informal rule of thumb I tell female students is that for most office/corporate environments one should probably not have something shorter than what that photo calls the "flirty" length, and in some work places something more toward the "Proper" length would work better. However, in several situations in the couple of years I've been surprised having several young ladies tell me that "flirty" is about as long as you could go and shorter is better. I'll give some examples,

(1) We do many career planning sessions for students and did one where we had them dress up for an office interview and we would then give them feedback on their outfits. All the girls wearing skirts came back with skirts at the "Provocative" and "Flirty" levels. They were a bit surprised when the women working at career services said they were too short for most interviews.

(2) At a university video a couple of administrators (not students) made a couple of years ago that featured a young female student "moving through her university experience." It had a section where she went on to the job market going to interviews in a high-rise corporate office building. In this section she wore a very tight one piece tube/mini dress that was at the "Provocative" length. Needless to say whenever the video is shown this part does not go over well....

(3) I often go to fund raising/award dinners in the community. The number of times I've seen university age girls (interns or entry level positions) in very short essentially night club style dresses is amazing.

(4) I took my college age niece out shopping a couple of years ago and she was quite adamant that anything shorter than the "cheeky" level was "old ladyish".

Again I do not want to sound prudish or judgmental but I can imagine what type of reception they get the first time they go to a job interview or a work-social event in such attire.

 

[Alice~]

Posey's piece is criticism regarding how women are judged often by appearance (simplified by the length of skirt) rather than by character. I totally agree with Lady Day's comments and Lizzie's regarding "unacceptable" women - which are reflected in this article.

Personally I feel that the "balancing act" is something that affects many women - and judging women based on their appearance only perpetuates this issue. This judgement-via-clothing is simply not experienced by men on the same scale as it is by women: at it's core it is an issue of sexism and objectification. People rarely make assumptions regarding the "sexual availability" of men based on their clothing.

Many people interpret Posey's work as a comment on rape culture, the "asking for it" "why was her skirt so short?" discussions that place responsibility for assault on the victim rather than on the attacker. I feel that is also a very valid interpretation of the piece. If a woman does not get the "balancing act" just right, she may be harshly condemned for it. On a smaller scale she might miss out on a job she should've gotten, and on a larger, she might miss out on justice and support following a traumatic attack.

I think it is a wonderful but depressing image.

 

[Louise Anne]

The image was a class project, Louise Anne, and one in a series as it describes in the link I posted, so it was not simply made to get people wound up on the internet.
.

Deliberately thought up by a teacher to provoke some form of reaction from there students.

 

[Lady Day]

Yeah, sure. Alrightie! Let's leave the unfounded conspiracy theory hypotheses aside and take the image at its face value, okay? Thanks.

 

[Lady Day]

Again I do not want to sound prudish or judgmental but I can imagine what type of reception they get the first time they go to a job interview or a work-social event in such attire.

Regrettably, I feel the same way about high heels. More acutely, stilettos. Why are you wearing 5" heels to a business meeting? I just don't understand that. That's not to say they can't but as your point with personal choice, isn't it also the choice of the other person whether good or bad, to judge you by your first impression?

It's all so complicated.

 

[sheeplady]

I think it's thought provoking, to be sure. All of those words have a negative connotation in some respects. Flirty isn't necessarily a nice word to use to describe a woman. Although it's not as bad as whore, it's not that positive. I think it's showing that no matter what you do, you'll be judged as inappropriate- even "proper" is seen as a negative word when used against a woman in certain contexts.

I think the words written on the woman's body emphasize the fact that a woman's body is an object. I too see this as men's perceptions (although quite a few women adopt this way of thinking, it's part of the problem of a male-dominated society). The brazen writing of the words on her body treat her as nothing other than a blank canvas to be used (to the point of being written on) by others. They can't see beyond her skirt length to her, she is merely an object of sexual desire to assign these words to.

I don't think they'd ever do something like this for men. Men aren't judged as far as character by the length of their shorts in one fallow swoop.

 

[sheeplady]

Many people interpret Posey's work as a comment on rape culture, the "asking for it" "why was her skirt so short?" discussions that place responsibility for assault on the victim rather than on the attacker. I feel that is also a very valid interpretation of the piece. If a woman does not get the "balancing act" just right, she may be harshly condemned for it. On a smaller scale she might miss out on a job she should've gotten, and on a larger, she might miss out on justice and support following a traumatic attack.

I think that this is somewhat a comment on rape culture, but I think rape culture is so pervasive that on any level a woman will be blamed no matter how she is dressed. If her skirt isn't short, it's that she went someplace she shouldn't. If she's wearing pants, they are too tight or too easy to get off. Or she didn't fight back enough. Or carry mace. Or she should have screamed louder, etc. No matter how a woman balances, society will never be pleased with the result.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's the inevitable byproudct of a hypersexualized culture that panders to the basest impulses. If you aren't ready to put out anywhere, any time, any place, you're just "repressed," that's all.

The sexual revolution is over, and we lost. Women are more objectified now, and in more vicious ways, than we were fifty or a hundred years ago.

 

[Louise Anne]

Louise,

You haven't wound me up about anything. I take it by your tone in this PM that you feel you are on a moral high ground, and I have offended you (and perhaps one other person who I will not bring into our discourse). I would beg to differ. Your comment of assuming this photo was something that was made to incite rage on the internet or a plan by a teacher to get a reaction were false, and I pointed that out. My point of this discourse (with the image) was to have some critical discussion, and I've tried guide the conversation to that direction as best I can, but I was not going to allow visceral reactions to the image layered with false accusations. It is unfortunate you have not picked up on that.

On my last note to you, it would appear that you feel that I would be embarrassed or regretful if you were to post our conversation out loud in the public forum. I should tell you, and I mean this not in a mean way, I really don't care what you think about me. I am civil, and respectful to everyone on this board, and because you seem to have been offended by my replies (again, twice citing you making up stuff about that image), you seem to think publicly saying something about me is going to make me feel bad.

I think about everything before I type it, and I don't worry about someone's feeling when I type something that makes a point. So if it makes you feel better by posting this all in the open, by all means, have at it.

Hope you have a great day.

LD

I only asked LD to re read what she had said in a reply to me if I was not upset then I am very shocked with her reply.

 

[Lady Day]

I think that this is somewhat a comment on rape culture, but I think rape culture is so pervasive that on any level a woman will be blamed no matter how she is dressed. If her skirt isn't short, it's that she went someplace she shouldn't. If she's wearing pants, they are too tight or too easy to get off. Or she didn't fight back enough. Or carry mace. Or she should have screamed louder, etc. No matter how a woman balances, society will never be pleased with the result.

Ugh, rape culture. I loath that phrase. But it's accurate. I guess because I associate the word culture with a positive meaning as opposed to its literal meaning. I feel that's the irony of the whole thing. No matter what a woman does it will be sexualized. *sigh* As Alice sad so perfectly, it is a wonderful and depressing image.

 

[Louise Anne]

Yeah, sure. Alrightie! Let's leave the unfounded conspiracy theory hypotheses aside and take the image at its face value, okay? Thanks.

BTW L/D is this your view becuse it is not mine? and do not understand where i said it?