Joe McCoy Fit Check - Opinions gratefully received

[Aloysius]

I was rather surprised that a lot of people are not aware of their own body measurements and body type. A lot of people in Asia have no clue that there is a width in shoe sizes.
If it wasn't for the current owner, RM and Denime would have gone bankrupt. There would be nothing to like. I dislike RM's pricing and their practice in enticing dealers to open RM only stores. I however like quite a lot of their products.
I have not actually heard about any rumour. I might have started a rumour myself here some years ago base on my observation and experience.
Fact is RM started BR with Toyo. When RM's founder left and found TM, I believe TM is getting Toyo's suppliers to make their clothing because TM has no in house production at all. TM could have continued to use the Few as supplier for at least the leather jacket but they have not. At the same time, quite a few TM items are made in China. Toyo also has lines that are made in China e.g. United Carr and Cat's Paw and those brands are specifically stated as such. While most Sugar Cane items list the country of origin in the tags as well, BR's items almost never do. That is what led me to believe that BR are made somewhere else, at least a large part perhaps the materials. People from HPA quickly corrected me back then but I am still skeptical.

I mean, the best parts did go bankrupt, except (what is now) Freewheelers I suppose. Very sad to see RMCNZ/The Few go; it was the last remnant.

All of my Buzz Rickson’s items have explicit MiJ labels, unless you mean the United Carr items that are branded “United Carr by Buzz Rickson’s”. It is usually a white tag like the Sugar Cane tag.

Toyo is pretty explicit about where things are made (I don’t inherently have a problem with non-Japanese manufacture; my foreign made Toyo stuff is quite good.). Embroidered t-shirts and sukajan are usually made in China for instance.

But no, it wasn’t you, even if you had the same view. Mr nu-RMC told Chapman (of Good Wear leather) this, when he became an RMC dealer, as well as others.

EDIT: This is the tag I mean, side by side in its SC and BR versions:

 

[Aloysius]

The collar is superb! I’d let the belts out a bit. I like this back design, a “belt-less” Halfbelt. I had a HWM altered this way:
View attachment 416436
I think when there’s no belt it’s best to minimize the hourglass shape a Halfbelt creates. Worked on my HWM b/c of the extreme waist taper.
As far as the sleeves go, baggie sleeves will always be baggie. It’s a huge pet peeve of mine. TBH I hadn’t noticed until your shot of the back. I don’t think they are crazy big by any means though.

This post and the Sheene thread have me extremely tempted to jump on the V-shaped black horsehide Schott jacket with side belts and a shirt collar that you posted in deals…

 

[Canuck Panda]

(About the fit) I like the McCoy jacket better than the Mulholland because the side cinches are in the right place, so it's gonna fit better.

(About sizing) There is also nothing wrong with Japanese sizing. When a Japanese person buys stuff in the US, he/she is gonna feel unfamiliar about the sizing system, and vice versa.
Generally speaking, Asian Extra Large = EU Large = American Medium. I also don't think (different sizing standards) has anything to do with vanity, it's just misunderstanding.

(About prices) Generally speaking, Japanese premium stuff focuses on understatement, same way the premium US stuff used to be. Not a lot of flash (and trash).
As far as value goes. It has nothing to do with the price tag but everything to do with how we judge one's backstory. Is it really that different when a trust fund baby buys a Rolex, than a line cook buying the same Rolex with his retirement savings? Still the same Rolex, bought with cash, only sold to two very different buyers.

I am grateful for the OP sharing his Nelson jacket. Without this post (back to back from the unfortunate Mulholland post), I'd never known to half belt a Mulholland. Maybe I am just slow and need to see the two side by side to get it. So instead of trying to improve a Mulholland copy, I will now get a Nelson copy.

 

[Aloysius]

I say “reverse vanity” as a joke. I’m not at all surprised when it happens with alpha sizing. It’s just extremely funny when it happens with numbered sizing, where those numbers indicate a measurement.

 

[Blackadder]

I mean, the best parts did go bankrupt, except (what is now) Freewheelers I suppose. Very sad to see RMCNZ/The Few go; it was the last remnant.

All of my Buzz Rickson’s items have explicit MiJ labels, unless you mean the United Carr items that are branded “United Carr by Buzz Rickson’s”. It is usually a white tag like the Sugar Cane tag.

Toyo is pretty explicit about where things are made (I don’t inherently have a problem with non-Japanese manufacture; my foreign made Toyo stuff is quite good.). Embroidered t-shirts and sukajan are usually made in China for instance.

But no, it wasn’t you, even if you had the same view. Mr nu-RMC told Chapman (of Good Wear leather) this, when he became an RMC dealer, as well as others.

EDIT: This is the tag I mean, side by side in its SC and BR versions: View attachment 416439

No. I don't mean the United Carr or Cat's Paw which are listed as MIC. Non of my BR jackets (a tanker, an N-1, a M-42 and a B-15B) except my leather B-2 have country of origin listed which is why I said most. I guess I don't own enough BR items to say that. Incidentally, I love my Cat's Paw pants. I have four pairs and I'd recommend to anyone looking for a pair of good work pants.

 

[Aloysius]

No. I don't mean the United Carr or Cat's Paw which are listed as MIC. Non of my BR jackets (a tanker, an N-1, a M-42 and a B-15B) except my leather B-2 have country of origin listed which is why I said most. I guess I don't own enough BR items to say that.

I see what you’re saying.

Under Japanese labeling law, as I understand it, even the UC/Indian/Cat’s Paw stuff could have a Made in Japan label if they wanted, since the rules are based on where the company is based/how the production is supervised. The fact that, despite this, they label the Made in China items accurately leads me to believe that they would state China where applicable.

 

[Blackadder]

I see what you’re saying.

Under Japanese labeling law, as I understand it, even the UC/Indian/Cat’s Paw stuff could have a Made in Japan label if they wanted, since the rules are based on where the company is based/how the production is supervised. The fact that, despite this, they label the Made in China items accurately leads me to believe that they would state China where applicable.

I see what you mean. I am not trying to argue but my view is different because one has to take into account the international trade as well as Japan's own law. Rules of origin in fact depends a lot on the importing countries. For example, US new rule prohibited Hong Kong exporters to the United States to label their goods as “Made in Hong Kong”.
I don't know if Toyo is a huge exporter but it probably is a huge importer. So you may be right.

 

[Imuricecreamman]

Looks like a great stretch of leather. Fit out of the box is hard to determine, but the startoff point looks great to me as all the lengths look good. I like a wider upper sleeve and this one seems to have that. Those sideadjusters are great for manipulating the silhouette once the break-in is underway.

 

[AeroFan_07]

So I personally like this jacket model a lot. It is a "less is more" design. It is simple, straightforward and would look great dressed up or down. I guess that is why it is rather popular. My only wish is that there was a similar type jacket for around the $1k range. IT's simply not in the cards for me anytime soon at the asking price.

The the OP - keep it, wear it, enjoy it. Hope you provide update photos as it breaks in.

 

[ton312]

I missed all the drama in this thread before I posted last but rereading it something has occured to me. If you buy a stock jacket from an online "store"... a jacket which you have no input into the design, size, materials or construction...is this really any different than shopping at the mall? No it is not...Add to cart>proceed to checkout. This is literally exactly what you do at the mall.

I think the term "mall jacket" is often used as a pejorative term when describing something as cheap...but the irony is that the mall has simply shifted to an online iteration. If RMC or FW, Thedi or Aero or any others were available at Nordstrom (a mall anchor store), the term mall jacket would lose it's pejorative association. In fact Nordstrom does (or did) carry Schott jackets, yet nobody would label the Schott as such, despite it being sold...at the mall.

Foodcourt for thought.

 

[Will Zach]

I am going to wade in here, since OP asked for opinions on fit. OP has cred in my book since the epic Buco, so it pains me to say that the jacket looks like a shapeless tube. For the sake of thoroughness and to avoid shooting from the hip, I image-googled the jacket. It looks like a shapeless tube on everybody, including two Loungers on images I found on Google. Is there a taper on this jacket?

 

[MattB334]

Fit looks spot on to me. As the leather breaks in and settles it will only look better.

 

[Tom71]

I love the jacket (looked at it many times over), and the fit is good. Will go to excellent when broken in better. I can easily see this become your fave.

I do like my Mulholland after a difficult period of getting used to it. Somehow the RMC jackets that I have (A2, N1, M65) always appeal a bit more to me.