Joe McCoy Fit Check - Opinions gratefully received

[Marc mndt]

It looks okay though doesn't strike me as anything special in any particular way, least of all the way it fits. You might as well be wearing a no-brand leather jacket, albeit one that fits well.

Correct me if I'm wrong @Monitor but I don't think monitor was referring to the price of the jacket.

When I buy a fancy leather jacket I expect it to stand out in one way or the other. The best way for a jacket like this to stand out is by showing elegance, a refined pattern. Finesse. I'm not seeing that here personally. In that sense it might as well be a no-brand jacket.

 

[BloodEagle]

well, whatever he meant, it was my 2 grand to drop and i dropped it and i like it. typical salty repsonse from the usual suspect whenever someone buys or even discusses something expensive. thanks for the feedback anyway.

 

[Monitor]

Correct me if I'm wrong @Monitor but I don't think monitor was referring to the price of the jacket.

No, of course I wasn't. I would more than happily spend two or three or five thousand (insert currency) if the jacket looked the part. To me, this one doesn't.

Without a big brand Logo, most people wouldn't know the cost just by looking at any clothing items.

But I believe that some do. Most jackets that'll stop me from scrolling past them turn out to be very pricey pieces. Fun, intricate... Special in some way. I personally don't see it here.

typical salty repsonse from the usual suspect whenever someone buys or even discusses something expensive.

Oh, terribly sorry. You did however forgot to specify that when you asked for opinions, you weren't asking for opinions.

Typical salty response when someone doesn't short-stroke it all over an overpriced leather jacket that looks like something from Wilson's last season discount rack.

That's a compliment, by the way. Wilson makes a nice jacket.

 

[marker2037]

The arms look ok to me. I think the bottom hem seems a bit wide, but it's hard to tell. How does it feel for you? Would you think you could size down and still fit this jacket in the chest comfortably?

 

[BloodEagle]

No, of course I wasn't. I would more than happily spend two or three or five thousand (insert currency) if the jacket looked the part. To me, this one doesn't.



But I believe that some do. Most jackets that'll stop me from scrolling past them turn out to be very pricey pieces. Fun, intricate... Special in some way. I personally don't see it here.



Oh, terribly sorry. You did however forgot to specify that when you asked for opinions, you weren't asking for opinions.

Typical salty response when someone doesn't short-stroke it all over an overpriced leather jacket that looks like something from Wilson's last season discount rack.

That's a compliment, by the way. Wilson makes a nice jacket.

Change the record mate - every time a more expensive japanese or similar jacket is discussed up you pop with grim predicability to tell everyone how crashingly wrong they are and they could have bought it for 1/8th of the price. Yes, I was asking for opinions on how it fits - I wasnt asking for you to crash in a let everyone know your opinion that it was a waste of money and I could have bought it at a bargain mall store - thats just rude. No one cares if you personally think a jacket is overpriced - maybe I should have called the thread "..opinions please - except Monitor's" because thats how predictable it is and you seem to have difficulty understanding how that antagonizes people. You'll have to explain what short stroke means - sounds pretty offensive and unpleasant, but then judging by your replies to a couple of threads recently (and indeed this one) thats par for the course when interacting with you.

 

[Aloysius]

well, whatever he meant, it was my 2 grand to drop and i dropped it and i like it. typical salty repsonse from the usual suspect whenever someone buys or even discusses something expensive. thanks for the feedback anyway.

Seriously? You make a feedback post right after a post about another expensive jacket with a failed zipper, and decide any less than 100% endorsement comments are jealousy?

What feedback are you looking for then?

 

[BloodEagle]

OK, apologies for the language and if i came off as more angry than I am there - it was not my intention and i reacted without properly thinking first. The point is, this thread was asking for opinions on fit. The style of the jacket itself? I like it, I wouldnt have bought it otherwise. My wife likes it - this is much more important than it might seem. Whether some guy on the internet likes it or wants to let me know he thinks I wasted MY money and could have bought something similar from a rail in a bargain shop is completely irrelevant, but still somewhat irritating and, I stand by this, pretty rude. Also, who's saying anything about jealousy?? Certainly not me, I havent mentioned anythgin even vaguely apporaching that

 

[Aloysius]

Also, who's saying anything about jealousy?? Certainly not me, I havent mentioned anythgin even vaguely apporaching that

Saying people get salty over expensive things does imply jealousy pretty strongly.

 

[BloodEagle]

Well that certainly wasnt my intention - apols to anyone if it came across like that.

 

[DorKlonn]

Can we stop with this back and forth bashing about the validity of Japanese jackets? its frankly getting old and predictable, I think BloodEagle was looking for fit feedback, and on that note: I think it fits good, not great, but good enough; and once again if they are happy with the jacket, then let them be happy with it. No need to interject about the perceived worth of the jacket. Its been tiring seeing the same thing again and again with fight erupting every single post.

I dont walk into someone else's party and talk about whether I think they are wrong for doing so and so because it doesnt fit my preference or way I do things.

 

[MrProper]

Well, since only opinions on fit were asked, we should actually hold back on other non-fit opinions. Would possibly bring calm into some thread (and at the same time make it little more boring ;-))
In fact, the price is of course completely irrelevant for the assessment of the fit.

Regarding fit: looks good, but the waistband seems to me a bit wide.

 

[Mich486]

Why going out of your way to tell someone that their brand new jacket looks like something from a mall…. Or Wilson’s discount rack from last year’s… come on… plain disrespectful and unnecessary.

Blood eagle has all the rights to be irritated. I would be.

 

[Aloysius]

For what it’s worth, I think it looks decent though unremarkable (that’s not a bad thing) and I am not so concerned about the slight space at the waist/hip because the cinches will take care of that.

It seems like a simple, under-the-radar, grab-and-go jacket, which something more fitted might not have achieved. And it is miraculous to see an RMC that fits a westerner older than a prepubescent. The new patterns are an excellent change!

Hopefully the age of size 46 RMC that measure 40 inches around is over.

 

[BloodEagle]

Why going out of your way to tell someone that their brand new jacket looks like something from a mall…. Or Wilson’s discount rack from last year’s… come on… plain disrespectful and unnecessary.

Blood eagle has all the rights to be irritated. I would be.

This is my point exactly

For what it’s worth, I think it looks decent though unremarkable (that’s not a bad thing) and I am not so concerned about the slight space at the waist/hip because the cinches will take care of that.

It seems like a simple, under-the-radar, grab-and-go jacket, which something more fitted might not have achieved. And it is miraculous to see an RMC that fits a westerner older than a prepubescent. The new patterns are an excellent change!

Hopefully the age of size 46 RMC that measure 40 inches around is over.

It is meant to be exactly that - somethng I can grab and put on without too much deliberation but still feel looks good. Ive got big 'statement' jackets and wanted something more everyday wearable - try picking the kids up from school in your shiny Buco d-pocket in the small place I live - you will stick out like a sore thumb! I do think RMC have got their act together with regard to sizing for western markets recently - this and the J100 I got a while back are all true to size and fit really nicely - I wonder if they have started using seperate patterns for the western and home markets?

 

[Aloysius]

It is meant to be exactly that - somethng I can grab and put on without too much deliberation but still feel looks good. Ive got big 'statement' jackets and wanted something more everyday wearable - try picking the kids up from school in your shiny Buco d-pocket in the small place I live - you will stick out like a sore thumb!

Exactly. Cross zips can look costumey in some everyday settings, or at least attract attention. A simple shirt collar leather jacket goes unnoticed, in the same way a parka or waxed cotton jacket does.

 

[Blackadder]

Good fit but looks to be a bit short. I guess any OTR Japanese jacket would look a bit short on the OP.

Not all people like to go bargain hunt and wait for the right style, the right size at the right price or wait half a year for a custom. A lot of people are impulse buyers who want to get a specific style at a specific moment, right here right now. A fd of mine would just grab anything OTR from suits to LL jackets even though he could well afford to wait for a bespoke and/or custom made (cause he has tons of clothes). I know I can get LW to custom make me a J-23 but I would most likely have gone mad trying to convince LW to cut it like a RM Buco with the high armhole, straight body cut. So yeah, different people want different things.
This is an open forum. Everyone can say their opinion but if you dislike a style or leather, there is no need to always make it about price and worth because no leather jacket is worth a dime because they are outdated. It is a man thing cause we like to see ourselves as sensible shoppers whose purchase is well justified but that is an illusion. You don't see the ladies pitching LV with Goyard to justify to others whether one is better made than the other. Better, lighter and cheaper materials are available. Leather jacket is not an essential anymore, so no one can truly justify buying one.
And please do not always make it about protection because there are better protective riding gear today. People from where I live just wear t shirt when riding because they would likely suffocate or have heat stroke wearing leather in our weather.
There seems to be a misconception that all Japanese jackets are so called reverse vanity. They just tweaked the cut to fit into the trend for the past ten years i.e. to match those slim fitting, low waist pants. They are merely making what people want and their main clientele is still the local Japanese.
The Few who used to make all RM leather jackets never done reverse vanity sizing. My size 36 the Few J-24 has a wider fit than my size 38 RM Buco J-24. RM has been turned into half fashion brand because the current owner is a better businessman than the founder. If not for RM or companies like them, a lot of people would not get into the "vintage" style.
Anyway, those who buy LW J-23 would continue to buy their LWs, those who buy and like the RM would not get turned just because LW's leather is thicker or the fit is "better". That much has been established in dude's thread.

 

[Blackadder]

This is my point exactly

It is meant to be exactly that - somethng I can grab and put on without too much deliberation but still feel looks good. Ive got big 'statement' jackets and wanted something more everyday wearable - try picking the kids up from school in your shiny Buco d-pocket in the small place I live - you will stick out like a sore thumb! I do think RMC have got their act together with regard to sizing for western markets recently - this and the J100 I got a while back are all true to size and fit really nicely - I wonder if they have started using seperate patterns for the western and home markets?

As I said, it is about trend for RM. The trend for slim fitting low waist pants is going away, so they are tweaking the cut to go with the wider higher waist pants that is here. A lot of jeans makers in Japan have also started making wide leg jeans.

 

[Aloysius]

There seems to be a misconception that all Japanese jackets are so called reverse vanity. They just tweaked the cut to fit into the trend for the past ten years i.e. to match those slim fitting, low waist pants. They are merely making what people want and their main clientele is still the local Japanese.

I wasn’t knocking OP’s spending. As for what I jokingly call ‘reverse vanity’, I stand by it. Not all brands do it (Buzz Rickson‘s does not, for instance, and the original RMC did not). What I call ‘reverse vanity’ is a practice I actually understand; inches are meaningless in Japan, so the classic Anglo system of chest sizing is likewise meaningless. Thus ‘40’ is large, ‘38’ is medium, etc in the sense of what would be large or medium in the Japanese market not what would fit someone sized 40 or 38 in the chest. This is perfectly understandable.

What is silly, though, and I see this quite a bit, is westerners forcing themselves into a jacket that is several sizes too small because the RMC tag matches their chest size, then get angry at anyone who recommends a change in size upon being asked for comments on the bursting-at-the-seams jacket. To be clear, I am not talking about OP at all.

The Few who used to make all RM leather jackets never done reverse vanity sizing. My size 36 the Few J-24 has a wider fit than my size 38 RM Buco J-24. RM has been turned into half fashion brand because the current owner is a better businessman than the founder.

I admit I don’t much like the new RMC guy at all, or his business practices (like trying to spread rumors to discredit Buzz Rickson because they were affiliated with the ‘old regime’ at RMC); I also think the products are far less interesting than they were under the original management. The quality is good but it feels increasingly like a fashion brand to me, every year. There are some products that are still standouts but the overall approach is weird.

 

[Blackadder]

I wasn’t knocking OP’s spending. As for what I jokingly call ‘reverse vanity’, I stand by it. Not all brands do it (Buzz Rickson‘s does not, for instance, and the original RMC did not). What I call ‘reverse vanity’ is a practice I actually understand; inches are meaningless in Japan, so the classic Anglo system of chest sizing is likewise meaningless. Thus ‘40’ is large, ‘38’ is medium, etc in the sense of what would be large or medium in the Japanese market not what would fit someone sized 40 or 38 in the chest. This is perfectly understandable.

What is silly, though, and I see this quite a bit, is westerners forcing themselves into a jacket that is several sizes too small because the RMC tag matches their chest size, then get angry at anyone who recommends a change in size upon being asked for comments on the bursting-at-the-seams jacket. To be clear, I am not talking about OP at all.



I admit I don’t much like the new RMC guy at all, or his business practices (like trying to spread rumors to discredit Buzz Rickson because they were affiliated with the ‘old regime’ at RMC); I also think the products are far less interesting than they were under the original management. The quality is good but it feels increasingly like a fashion brand to me, every year. There are some products that are still standouts but the overall approach is weird.

I was rather surprised that a lot of people are not aware of their own body measurements and body type. A lot of people in Asia have no clue that there is a width in shoe sizes.
If it wasn't for the current owner, RM and Denime would have gone bankrupt. There would be nothing to like. I dislike RM's pricing and their practice in enticing dealers to open RM only stores. I however like quite a lot of their products.
I have not actually heard about any rumour. I might have started a rumour myself here some years ago base on my observation and experience.
Fact is RM started BR with Toyo. When RM's founder left and found TM, I believe TM is getting Toyo's suppliers to make their clothing because TM has no in house production at all. TM could have continued to use the Few as supplier for at least the leather jacket but they have not. At the same time, quite a few TM items are made in China. Toyo also has lines that are made in China e.g. United Carr and Cat's Paw and those brands are specifically stated as such. While most Sugar Cane items list the country of origin in the tags as well, BR's items almost never do. That is what led me to believe that BR are made somewhere else, at least a large part perhaps the materials. People from HPA quickly corrected me back then but I am still skeptical.

 

[ton312]

The collar is superb! I’d let the belts out a bit. I like this back design, a “belt-less” Halfbelt. I had a HWM altered this way:

I think when there’s no belt it’s best to minimize the hourglass shape a Halfbelt creates. Worked on my HWM b/c of the extreme waist taper.
As far as the sleeves go, baggie sleeves will always be baggie. It’s a huge pet peeve of mine. TBH I hadn’t noticed until your shot of the back. I don’t think they are crazy big by any means though.