James Lock and Co.

[Panamabob]

After having seen some very close up pictures of two (2) different James Lock and Co. "Montecristi" hats I wrote them and kindly asked them to stop selling Cuenca hats as Montecristi, or at least advise their suppliers that they believe they are not Montecristi hats. A quote from their response follows:

"We would advise that all our Montecristi hats are made from genuine Montecristi hoods which carry the authenticating stamp which is stamped on the inside of the crown."

Gee, I guess that makes it a real Montecristi.

 

[jamespowers]

Gee, I am going to have to get one of those stamps made up for my Cuencas if it will change them into Montecristis overnight.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Panamabob]

I might add...in market in Ecuador I saw an acrylic fleece blanket that was stamped 100% Vicuna. Vicuna is a highly prized, highly priced wool from an an animal related to the alpaca/llama/camel.

I've also seen some really shady things happen with my teaching contracts and even my immigration papers there.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Cuenca hats

I saw a site with a $ 10.00 street value Cuenca Panama hat price $125.00. Now thats as bad as the rip off GH site. It truly is buyer beware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Psykik]

I might add...in market in Ecuador...

In a Mexican bordertown (Tijuana) I saw a mule painted (poorly, I might add!) with white stripes and an opportunity to have my picture taken with a "zebra" for several bucks!

 

[Art Fawcett]

In a Mexican bordertown (Tijuana) I saw a mule painted (poorly, I might add!) with white stripes and an opportunity to have my picture taken with a "zebra" for several bucks!

Welcome to the Lounge Psykik...but can't help asking myself...did you pay it? If so...pics please!!

 

[fedoralover]

I went to Tijuana when I was 13 and saw the same "Zebra" and my parents did pay for me to have my picture taken with me sitting on it. I think they still have the pic somewhere.

fedoralover

 

[Panamabob]

That's classic.

I went to Tijuana and sat on a "Zebra."

I went to Lock and a "Montecristi" sat on me.

 

[Psykik]

I didn't pay, wasn't drunk on cheap tequila and after all of that...if I did, I certainly wouldn't share the evidence! :beer:

Thanks for the welcome, Art!

Rob

Welcome to the Lounge Psykik...but can't help asking myself...did you pay it? If so...pics please!!

 

[wackyvorlon]

One thing I should mention about James Lock and Company, they are hardly a fly-by-night operation. They've been in business for over 300 years, and carry the royal warrant. Among many accomplishments, they where responsible for developing the bowler hat(which they term the coke hat).

 

[jamespowers]

One thing I should mention about James Lock and Company, they are hardly a fly-by-night operation. They've been in business for over 300 years, and carry the royal warrant. Among many accomplishments, they where responsible for developing the bowler hat(which they term the coke hat).

Well now, you have to be kind of careful when attributing the Bowler to the Lock brothers. They really did not have the idea to bring it forward on their own or it would have been called the Lock.
In 1850 William Coke, the nephew of the Earl of Leicester, of Norfolk England went to the Lock brothers. HE commissioned them to make a hat for him that his gamekeepers could wear to protect them while they were running after poachers on his land. Originally he had them wearing Thanets but they were too round and got yanked off their heads by the branches of low hanging trees. The Thanet was also not a hard hat so it gave little protection as well. Coke wanted a hat as hard as a tophat but shorter with a rounded surface so it would not get so easily caught. He told the lock broithers he wanted a close fitting, hard rounded hat that could take being stood on!
The Lock broithers really didn't invent the hat. The bodies were supplied to them by William and Thomas Bowler (now we understand where that name came from). Their shop was across the river Thames. William Bowler figured out the process and correct amount of fur and shellac to use for the raw bodies so they would be super strong. The resulting hat was called a Bowler on the south side of the river where the body was made and a Coke on the north side where the hat was finished---after William Coke.
The Lock brothers merely finished out the hat bodies that William Bowler toiled and experimented to make. The Lock brother might have told Bowler what they wanted but it was up to him to fill the order. Coke was the instigator of the whole process so he really deserves quite a bit of the credit as well. He knew what he wanted and gave his vision to the Lock brothers who gave it to Bowler to actually do something about.
Now we better understand who the "iron hat" should really be attributed to. A complicated process to be sure. Lock and Company still does exist though and they are to be commended for holding the business together for so long. They did, however, rely quite a bit on the talents of many around them at the time. I suppose any good business realizes that.

Regards to all,

J

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Alot has changed. Play on the past Glory.

300 years ago! Alot has changed. The hats of yonder year are not the same hats as of today. Many are pure Junk and use there crets and this and that and are not as good as a Modern VINTAGE like Optimo or what the small hatters put out today IMHO. :fedora:

sHARPEY

 

[wackyvorlon]

I will say, from my experience with Lock hats, they are of excellent quality. There's a good reason why they've been around so long

 

[Panamabob]

The Montecristis that I've seen are not Montecristis. They aren't even high quality Cuencas. You shouldn't sell something marked as something else...period!

 

[gcollins]

Good history, JP. I'm not surprised a bit that you would know all that!

Robert, doesn't Montecristi have some kind of patent protection on their hats and weaving process in the US or Europe? I'm not sure how that would be structured, since it's hats from a town.

I am surprised though that a venerable company like Lock would be able to sell hats as Montecristi when they are not only Cuencas, but cheap and bleached ones as well. How did they reply?

 

[Panamabob]

"We would advise that all our Montecristi hats are made from genuine Montecristi hoods which carry the authenticating stamp which is stamped on the inside of the crown."

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Just info for you.

I will say, from my experience with Lock hats, they are of excellent quality. There's a good reason why they've been around so long

I'm truly happy for you that you like your hats.
This hat was on Ebay and it is not a Montecristi Panama hat. It is a $10.00 Cuenca Panama hat.

Someone at that company is being dishonest.
Here is the hat. Anyone can tell its a Cuenca and not a REAL MONTECRISTI.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2998&item=8178143759&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

The hat on there site is also a Cuenca.
For.50 cents I can buy a stamp and stamp my cheap hats Montecristi Panama hats.

If I new a English lawyer I would buy one and sue the s out of them!!

 

[wackyvorlon]

There's something very much discongruous here. What you're describing really doesn't sound right.

 

[Panamabob]

It is true. I've given them the benefit of the doubt. Either they are being ripped off by an Ecuadorian company or they are ripping off their public. Either way, they have been told their products are not as advertised. They'll either have to step up and admit it or continue selling mislabeled hats.