J. Robert Oppenheimer Fedora

[wsmontana]

It seems timely to bash a Gus into an Oppenheimer. My interpretation is a pork pie with a slightly pinched front. A bit of a challenge to get 7” of crown down to 4 1/4”. Looking forward the movie!

Bill

 

[Just Daniel]

Somewhere on here there is a link to and image of a 50s Sovereign owned by Oppenheimer. Thats definitely not his iconic hat.

There is also a lot of speculation stating his hat was an Open Road, that could be true, although I don’t think we have evidence of when the Open Road changed over to its classic format- some time in the early or mid forties? Definitely not the 30s, we‘ve more or less found those to be early fedoras. Other sites call it a pork pie hat, I think we define those as shorter brim hats (?). I certainly would not call it a pork pie.

Oppenheimer was at Harvard until 1925 then Germany through 1927 or so. It appears he was at Berkeley in the 30s through 1942.

We can speculate that his iconic hat was a thirties or early 40s hat. Looking at this pic, from the quality of his hand crease, I would guess it’s at least a 30s Nutria or 3X type quality hat. Maybe an early 40s 3X at the latest. In my experience $10/12 hats from that era don’t form with that thin top. Therefore I would guess it’s at least a $15 hat.

What do you guys think? The Los Alamos website says this pic is from 1946. Could it be a Royal Stetson DeLuxe quality?

 

[Doctor Strange]

https://www.agnoulitahats.com/en-us/products/the-oppenheimer-beaver-fur-felt?variant=46903103291717

 

[Edward]

The one used in the 2023 film was made by Baron Hats. Can't find it on their website, though I'm sure it's a very pricey number indeed coming from them. https://variety.com/2023/artisans/awards/oppenheimer-costume-designer-cillian-murphy-hat-1235681839/ Strangely, I can't find any article online suggesting whether they had any of Oppenheimer's actual hats to go on, as opposed to photos. I'd have thought one might have survived, given what a significant historical person he was, but there we are.

ETA: Judging from these images, they didn't do too badly in recreating the original:

The lower shot is obviously from a later period of Oppenheimer's life than the scene capture above, but allowing for Oppenheimer's known tendency to fidget with his hat...

 

[belfastboy]

The one used in the 2023 film was made by Baron Hats. Can't find it on their website, though I'm sure it's a very pricey number indeed coming from them. https://variety.com/2023/artisans/awards/oppenheimer-costume-designer-cillian-murphy-hat-1235681839/ Strangely, I can't find any article online suggesting whether they had any of Oppenheimer's actual hats to go on, as opposed to photos. I'd have thought one might have survived, given what a significant historical person he was, but there we are.

ETA: Judging from these images, they didn't do too badly in recreating the original:

View attachment 536783

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The lower shot is obviously from a later period of Oppenheimer's life than the scene capture above, but allowing for Oppenheimer's known tendency to fidget with his hat...

Hmmm, a leather band versus the original 3 cord ply ribbon....that is a considerable variation.

 

[Frunobulax]

Hmmm, a leather band versus the original 3 cord ply ribbon....that is a considerable variation.

It looks to me like the real one has a bound brim, as well.

 

[belfastboy]

It looks to me like the real one has a bound brim, as well.

I think you are right....missed it!

 

[Edward]

Hmmm, a leather band versus the original 3 cord ply ribbon....that is a considerable variation.

Yes, I noticed that. Course, I have no idea which photos the production used and whether it was supposed to be the same hat, but if so...

It looks to me like the real one has a bound brim, as well.

Could be a trick of the light, but if the original hats he wore were Open Roads as has been speculated, that would make sense.

Nonetheless, at least nice to see rhe shape right; times gone past they'd have stuck him in a porkpieand be done with it.

 

[Frunobulax]

Yes, I noticed that. Course, I have no idea which photos the production used and whether it was supposed to be the same hat, but if so...



Could be a trick of the light, but if the original hats he wore were Open Roads as has been speculated, that would make sense.

Nonetheless, at least nice to see rhe shape right; times gone past they'd have stuck him in a porkpieand be done with it.

An OR wouldn't have a 3-cord ribbon, though.

But historical accuracy wasn't the costumer's vision. He intentionally had everybody else in the movie not wear a hat (except Pitt). I think he was more interested in "the look" than accuracy.

 

[Just Daniel]

I think the ribbon and dates eliminate the Open Road. Over at the Open Road Guild, James Powers dates the introduction of the “classic” model to 1946.

The thread is 191 pages. I’ll poke around a little, but maybe someone has a more concrete reference?

An OR wouldn't have a 3-cord ribbon, though.

But historical accuracy wasn't the costumer's vision. He intentionally had everybody else in the movie not wear a hat (except Pitt). I think he was more interested in "the look" than accuracy.

 

[dkstott]

I just saw the movie. There's 2 possibly 3 different hats worn during the course of the movie. . I couldn't get good photographs. 1 of them definitely has about a 3/4 inch ribbon and bow.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

I just saw the movie. There's 2 possibly 3 different hats worn during the course of the movie. . I couldn't get good photographs. 1 of them definitely has about a 3/4 inch ribbon and bow.

I thought I saw Oppenheimer in at least two different versions of the same hat in the film - or, at least two slightly different ribbon treatments. But one of the hats also looked like it at one time had a wide ribbon, because there looked to be a discoloration line where that wide ribbon once was.

However, in the Variety article that Edward posted, the costume designer specifically states that there was only one hat used throughout the whole film, though they do not mention if the ribbon was changed:

“Mirojnick notes that Oppenheimer only wears one hat throughout the entire film, which she describes as a hybrid of a porkpie crown with a somewhat Western brim.”

Also of interest in that article is that Nolan did not want anybody else in a hat except military personnel (the article mentions Matt Damon). I definitely noticed that nobody else wore a hat and was disappointed with that element, but am glad to hear it was an artistic choice.

So is the hat being used to represent the a-bomb? Is that why only Oppenheimer wears a brimmed hat (except notably Einstein, whose fedora is very quickly blown off his head by the wind).

 

[wsmontana]

So is the hat being used to represent the a-bomb? Is that why only Oppenheimer wears a brimmed hat (except notably Einstein, whose fedora is very quickly blown off his head by the wind).

That is an interesting interpretation. I was thinking along the lines of “heavy is the head that wears the crown” and that Oppenheimer’s hat represented that burden which was solely carried by him (and Einstein lost the “crown“ in that scene).

Knowing Nolan’s films though he probably had multiple interpretations in mind so we both could be right .

 

[Edward]

That is an interesting interpretation. I was thinking along the lines of “heavy is the head that wears the crown” and that Oppenheimer’s hat represented that burden which was solely carried by him (and Einstein lost the “crown“ in that scene).

Knowing Nolan’s films though he probably had multiple interpretations in mind so we both could be right .

That was interesting, wasn't it? I went in to see it last week knowing that detail about Oppenheimer being supposedly the only one to wear a hat. Given how clear that was as an intent, Einstein losing his must have been deliberate. Impressive portrayal by Tom Conti; roles that that need a deft touch to save them from sinking into doing a cartoon impression rather than portraying the man.

As to only Oppenheimer being seen wearing a hat, that is done remarkably well. I had thought it might be jarring, but actually in the relatively few outdoor scenes where other men are seen hatless, it feels entirely plausible, whether due to the era, or the context. Granted, that's seeing it through this side of the pond eyes, of course: in both Britain and Ireland, but especially Fashionable London, hip young men wear abandoning the hat as a matter of style (as distinct from as a source of warmth in Winter) as early as the 1930s.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

Impressive portrayal by Tom Conti; roles that that need a deft touch to save them from sinking into doing a cartoon impression rather than portraying the man.

I have criticized the film’s overly factual presentation and what I see as a lack of plot; however I am toying with a different interpretation which you hit on in these comments: the use of understatement.

Namely, the entire movie is very understated. One is struck, for example, by the subtle depiction of Oppenheimer’s mental disturbance immediately after Japan surrenders. This is the scene in the gymnasium (or whatever it was with bleachers) where all of Los Alamos is cheering for him and he has visions of the blast victims. This is so understated that it could easily be overlooked.

However, that scene is crucial since, if it fails to fully portray the depth of Oppenheimer’s concerns, then the film also fails to communicate his post-war political position. I believe it fails on both counts. As much as I loved seeing Florence Pugh, I would have been better served if the film lost all that storyline and filled the time with more of an actual plot regarding his very public positioning after the war. After all, it was the post-war activity that cost him his job.

But was that Los Alamos scene really too subtle or was there a deliberate understatement happening throughout the entire movie - perhaps as you say, to keep the movie from sinking into something cartoonish or maybe even melodramatic?

I’m not convinced that it was deliberate understatement; I think Nolan just put in too many facts and not enough story. However, I intend to watch it again with that question in mind.

 

[Edward]

I have criticized the film’s overly factual presentation and what I see as a lack of plot; however I am toying with a different interpretation which you hit on in these comments: the use of understatement.

Namely, the entire movie is very understated. One is struck, for example, by the subtle depiction of Oppenheimer’s mental disturbance immediately after Japan surrenders. This is the scene in the gymnasium (or whatever it was with bleachers) where all of Los Alamos is cheering for him and he has visions of the blast victims. This is so understated that it could easily be overlooked.

However, that scene is crucial since, if it fails to fully portray the depth of Oppenheimer’s concerns, then the film also fails to communicate his post-war political position. I believe it fails on both counts. As much as I loved seeing Florence Pugh, I would have been better served if the film lost all that storyline and filled the time with more of an actual plot regarding his very public positioning after the war. After all, it was the post-war activity that cost him his job.

But was that Los Alamos scene really too subtle or was there a deliberate understatement happening throughout the entire movie - perhaps as you say, to keep the movie from sinking into something cartoonish or maybe even melodramatic?

I’m not convinced that it was deliberate understatement; I think Nolan just put in too many facts and not enough story. However, I intend to watch it again with that question in mind.

It does have the feel of a picture made with an audience in mind who are either assumed to already know the basic story (or trusted to figure it out / research it for themselves).

 

[MadBuilderTx]

Hello all. I've been following this discussion about "Oppi's" unique hat with interest. I've mainly been a Fedora, Trilby and Panama wearer for years now but I love the look of this hat. I'm curious what your impressions are of the hat I'm linking below that is being sold by a company I'm not familiar with, Agnoulita, as an "Oppenhiemer" style hat. Obviously the band doesnt match up, but to my untrained and unsophisticated eye the hat itself seems...promising.

https://www.agnoulitahats.com/en-us/products/the-oppenheimer-wide-brim-porkpie-hat?variant=46869622358341

 

[Mighty44]

Hello all. I've been following this discussion about "Oppi's" unique hat with interest. I've mainly been a Fedora, Trilby and Panama wearer for years now but I love the look of this hat. I'm curious what your impressions are of the hat I'm linking below that is being sold by a company I'm not familiar with, Agnoulita, as an "Oppenhiemer" style hat. Obviously the band doesnt match up, but to my untrained and unsophisticated eye the hat itself seems...promising.

https://www.agnoulitahats.com/en-us/products/the-oppenheimer-wide-brim-porkpie-hat?variant=46869622358341

I think you’d get closer to the actual hat by buying a vintage Stetson or Resistol Open Road or, ideally, a thin ribbon model with a 3” brim (as opposed to the 2 3/4 on an OR) and telescoping the crown yourself. For under $200 you should definitely be able to find an awesome vintage hat that will look more like the original, will have way more character and will last you a lifetime. I used to own a light grey Stetson 3X with a 3” brim that was very close to Oppenheimer’s hat. Just keep checking EBay but ORs are among the most common of vintage hats. Good luck!

 

[T Jones]

An OR wouldn't have a 3-cord ribbon, though.

But historical accuracy wasn't the costumer's vision. He intentionally had everybody else in the movie not wear a hat (except Pitt). I think he was more interested in "the look" than accuracy.

Actually, an intermediate version, probably around 1946-'47, (after the original wide ribbon OR and right before the 3/8 thin ribbon OR), did have a three cord hat band and a 2 7/8 bound brim. It was advertised as a 3X Quality Stetson Open Road.

 

[Just Daniel]

Have you been over to the Agnoulita thread?

Hello all. I've been following this discussion about "Oppi's" unique hat with interest. I've mainly been a Fedora, Trilby and Panama wearer for years now but I love the look of this hat. I'm curious what your impressions are of the hat I'm linking below that is being sold by a company I'm not familiar with, Agnoulita, as an "Oppenhiemer" style hat. Obviously the band doesnt match up, but to my untrained and unsophisticated eye the hat itself seems...promising.

http://[URL]https://www.agnoulitaha...-wide-brim-porkpie-hat?variant=46869622358341

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