J. Peterman Keeper's Tweed sport jacket

[Subvet642]

This jacket is another reason why I love J. Peterman. As GuyBrush stated earlier, the armholes are still cut too big, though the jacket looks fantastic and there is enough lining in the body to allow the action back to be functional. Ideally this jacket would have a skeleton lining... We need to start a letter campaign... J. Peterman has done the skeleton lining in other jackets and I feel with the skeleton lining and high cut armholes this jacket would be perfect.

A true sport jacket with a high button closure, leather shoulder patch to rest your rifle butt and elbow patches for when you are on the ground.

Very 1940's cut.

Thank you IndyanaGuyBrush for giving me the skinny on this jacket.

I'll try to get some better pics of the back in action.



Matt Deckard

Matt, you are one stylin' cat!

 

[H.Johnson]

'Keeper's Tweed' (Gamekeeper's) is the heaviest of the tweeds, often used for the Norfolk suits- jacket with belt, pleated back, vertical stays over the shoulder and large pockets.

B
T

This is what BT is referring to. The 'vertical stays' on a full Norfolk jacket join up with shoulder pads to support the game bag. Note: these are not 'gun pads' (unless you'all into trick shootin')!

This is in W&G Derbyshire Tweed. It is, of course, a modern jacket.

 

[Creeping Past]

HJ, could you tell me what characterises Derbyshire tweed? Is it a matter of twist and density or wool mixing?

 

[H.Johnson]

Derby tweed

As my local tweed, I should be able to answer this straightforward question with confidence and authority. Errrr....pity I can't. Here goes anyway....

The Legend.
During the last Scottish invasion of England (1745) the Young Pretender's mighty army was halted by heroic English forces at a great battle just outside Derby. The Scottish prisoners taken at the battle were forced to show the local weavers how they made their tweed garments and that formed the basis of Derby Tweed. An alternative version has Scottish weavers in the Prince's army being so captivated by the beauty of the local women that they choose to stay and weave.

The Facts.
It is hard to see anything exclusively Scottish (or indeed Gaelic) about tweed. There is nothing as far as I know to suggest that tweed-type fabrics were not woven in England (and Wales) before the 18th Century.

There wasn't a 'Battle of Derby' to speak of. BPC's followers became disillusioned, having failed to raise the support (mainly from Catholics) they had expected in England and, having heard of organised English forces approaching from the south, broke up and turned for home.

The Cloth.
Derby tweed is woven from a hard, tightly spun woolen yarn (from the local hill sheep) and usually has a tight weave with an even twill (although I have seen herringbone tweed woven in the area). It is similar in weight to keepers' tweed (or slightly lighter) and is somewhat 'slubby' (although not to the same extent as Donegal tweed).

Typical Derby tweed is usually in grey, Lovatt or forest green with flecks of contrasting colour in the weave. Its most distinuishing characteristic is its parallel weft lines of contrasting colour of red and blue (or green, depending on the body colour). Less often, the warp and weft is contrasted in a sort of window-pane check.

A lot of Derby tweed was woven in neighbouring counties (W&G is in Lincolnshire) but then some of the best Harris tweed comes from Lewis. Did I really dare to say that?

 

[Creeping Past]

That's clued me in. Thanks, HJ.

This seems to be one of those lost or 'hidden' bits of history that would be practically impossible to recover without luck in the archives or a wide breadth of literary knowledge.

On the possibly non-sequitous basis that every county or region in the British Isles once had its own type of bagpipes, and this is now widely forgotten, I'd be inclined to agree with your suggestion that tweed should not, perhaps, be regarded historically as an exclusively Scots cloth.

That's a controversy in the making.

 

[H.Johnson]

We are treading on doctrinal eggshells, mon ami.

I like your Jack in the Green avatar, by the way, Is that Lewes?

 

[Creeping Past]

In many respects, doctrine is for trampling.

Whittlesea straw bear, Cambs.

 

[H.Johnson]

fftopic:

This seems to be one of those lost or 'hidden' bits of history that would be practically impossible to recover without luck in the archives or a wide breadth of literary knowledge.
QUOTE]

Hardly lost or hidden. The Jacobite expedition through England is possibly the most well-documented and prolonged incident in the country at that time. In some ways it was as much a tourist attraction as an invasion!

Neither does it require much in the way of 'literary knowledge'. The problem is that no-one bothers with archives any more. The Battle of Derby is an example of what I call 'mis-tory' - history based on mistakes, misconceptions and mis-information.

Here is what I think happened to 'create' the Battle of Derby and place it into history. Some years ago a group began to commemorate the Jacobite army's (almost unopposed) entry into Derby (4th - 6th December 1745) with a parade and pipe band. OK. Then some re-enactors became involved (one set of 'redcoats', one of 'highlanders'). Since they had the period gear and the muskets and claymores, they may as well use them, right? So they did a piece of 18th Century battle re-enactment, lots of forming up, charging and firing. Now, since people were re-enacting an 18th Century battle in Derby in the 1990s, a battle must have taken place in 1745, yes? So, the Battle of Derby was created (within the last 18 years or so) and has taken its place in popular history.

http://www.derbyphotos.co.uk/special/bonnieprince.htm

The documented reality (on both sides) is clear, comprehensive and very, very different. But who cares about reality?

 

[Creeping Past]

The hidden history comment was about the roots of English tweed (and [bag]pipes), not the Jacobite spree...

Invented traditions, and re-invented ones, really catch on quickly.

I blame regional-focused arts/culture funding.

Place-making my @\*^

 

[H.Johnson]

Ah, so!

And Bonnie Prince Charlie was Italian, of course.

And there's the George Washington connection...

fftopic: