It`s all been done before.

[nicemouth]

What's the motivation for me, or anyone else, to take plunge, Feraud? To hope they won't be lopped off at the knees like bburtner was? If differing opinions were truly welcome here, you wouldn't have to ask for them.

 

[Feraud]

What's the motivation for me, or anyone else, to take plunge, Feraud? To hope they won't be lopped off at the knees like bburtner was? If differing opinions were truly welcome here, you wouldn't have to ask for them.

There is plenty of differing opinions here. Sorry you choose to not see it.
I am done with this and going to bump some content. Adios.

 

[MadelienneBlack]

Look, Nicemouth, if you crave his conversation that much, PM him! That's what the functions for, isn't it?

And if you really have such a problem with the "dumb" topics you find here, why not just leave instead of ruffling feathers? It would seem that the other lounge members don't mind discussing such "mind-numbing" topics, and the lounge suits them just fine the way it is. No one's forcing you to stay, and I don't see the point in frequenting a place you obviously find displeasing.

 

[nicemouth]

That's what the functions for, isn't it?

I believe you meant to type "function's for" or "function is for". Amen to that.

I also noticed that you removed the dagger from the original poster's back by deleting your petty "space bar" email from before. It would have been nice if it had never been posted in the first place.

 

[MadelienneBlack]

I believe you meant to type "function's for" or "function is for".

Oh, you're clever, aren't you?

In case you hadn't noticed, I deleted my earlier post because I realized how rude it came off as.
But clearly, you're the bigger man here.
You win.
Besides, I dislike debating with brick walls, and I'm not about to get myself kicked out of here over a ridiculous topic such as this.

 

[nicemouth]

This "ridiculous topic" speaks directly to the content that is presented here and how NEW OPINIONS are received, or NOT received by readers in this forum.

 

[nicemouth]

...or the correct way to use the space bar.

 

[KY Gentleman]

Is this thread worth getting this worked up over?
Some vintage stuff is expensive, if you don't think its worth it then don't buy it.
If you are unhappy with the content of this board, then maybe you shouldn't be reading it...

Life is too short to get this angry over "stuff".

 

[nicemouth]

Is this thread worth getting this worked up over?
Some vintage stuff is expensive, if you don't think its worth it then don't buy it.
If you are unhappy with the content of this board, then maybe you shouldn't be reading it...

Life is too short to get this angry over "stuff".

Agreed...off to yet another urban youth baggy pants thread!

 

[carter]

Thanks KY Gentleman.

Well, I'm certainly glad that's over. Let's all have a drink! :cheers1:

 

[MadelienneBlack]

Well, I'm certainly glad that's over. Let's all have a drink! :cheers1:

First round's on me!

 

[reetpleat]

Have to agree with Doran on being able to appreciate multiple points of view. The ,"You don't agree with me, you must be an idiot" approach is pretty unproductive.

I think what the OP was really getting at is the difference between doing something because YOU like it, or paying through the nose to strike some pose that has largely been determined by the "taste" of others.

I dress how I like, some new, some old, mostly cheap because I am a poorly paid civil servant. I came from a poor family and can relate a little to resenting "trustafarians". That said, I guess they are free to waste their parents money as they wish.

It's the difference between a poseur and an original, your choice!

Not addressing you or anyone else as wrong. Mainly talking about myself.

I agree, and often tend to guess at other people's motives. But in my heart I know I am wrong to do so. who are any of us to judge someone else. that guy who shells out big bucks for a watch or hat may love it just as much as me.

 

[Mr. Rover]

EDIT: IT seems like I'm repeating alot of the stuff said earlier in this thread, now looking at the thread in retrospect.


Not to get in the crossfire or anything, but I would say that this thread has become one of those that we've categorized as arbitrary and mind-numbing. It's true, this forum isn't what it used to be 3 or 4 years ago when people who were more experienced and interested in this period and the garments were making quality, informative posts about their experiences and findings.Maybe we've run out of things to say on the topics of menswear? I mean, at the end of the day, we're talking about a rather small subject in a rather small period of time.
But, rather than dwelling on the problems that have become inherent in the last year or so on this forum, why not take the initiative to start some interesting dialogue about the things that interest you in this forum.
I don't want to sound like I'm attacking anyone, as that isn't my intention, but saying you buy most of your clothes at Target now doesn't enhance anyone's knowledge about vintage clothes or how to wear it, which I believe is the purpose of this forum. But telling us more about your watches that you've had in the past would.
As far as money goes, the way things usually go is well-made things that have stood the test of time tend to end up going for a lot of money, especially if they can still be worn fashionably now. The 1930s was 60-70 years ago now, and products and goods that have lasted that long are become rarer and rarer and collectible to certain people. But the values of "things" are constantly being inflated, whether it's a vintage watch, car, suit, or hat, a new dress shirt, or even a pack of gum (25 cents? $1.25 in some places now?)
Heck- I would say that this forum has probably contributed somewhat to the constant inflation of vintage prices...if it wasn't for Matt Deckard and Marc Chevalier stirring up all this attention and desire for beltbacks, would they really be going for triple the price of what they were going for on eBay 2 years ago? I could say the same thing about Stetson Whippets and Stratoliners. Is this because they are well-made or especially great? I bought them early on when they were cheaper because I liked the look, not because Hemingway Jones did or because the FL deemed as the "it" piece to have. Places like this will stir desire for certain things- I would say that this forum creates fashion trends in its own subculture apart from mainstream fashion...compelling leaders sometimes create followers.
As far as people looking at modern clothing and debating if it has the desired qualities of a vintage garment- that is understandable, as the pool of vintage clothing is always shrinking as collectors buy it up and the remaining pieces' prices become inflated- basic supply and demand, right?
So, discussing whether a Brooks Bros. or a Ralph Lauren's lapels would be accurate for a period correct piece, or if the beltback is in the right placement as that of a 30s jacket, that is just someone with probably less self-confidence in his own personal style than yourself looking for reassurance that he is doing something right. I would say buy what you like if you thinks it's worth it, and use this forum for some direction and insight, but not every guy knows what he likes yet. Just do your bloody research first before asking a question, because it may have been asked 50 times already in the last 3 or 4 years. And stay on topic when you do.

 

[reetpleat]

Is there anything worthwhile in t his thread (I think so) that would make it worth keeping open if all the useless personal chatter were removed? Bartenders, can you do that?

this thread is not about how we treat each other or the intent of the lounge. there are other posts for that.

I do think there is something to the discussion of what we are willing to pay for something, and what we think of others who will pay more or less than us is interesting.

For the record, I love a bargain, and do not have a lot of money to spare. and was fortunate enough to build my collection years ago when it was cheaper and easier to find. But i have no problem with people spending a lot for something they like. and frankly, I think loungers and others can be kinda cheap. Spending two hundred bucks on a hat of the quality we take for granted seems like a bargain in a lot of ways. But I pass no judgements on anyone who, like me, would be hard pressed to pay more than fifty for any hat. I met a guy once who was telling me how he had read an article that said you could buy a vintage overcoat for seventy five bucks, take it to a tailor for another seventy five, and have a coat of amazing quality for much less than the price of a mediocre new one. I agreed. But i also told him if he looked at a few thrift stores, he could likely find one that fit already for ten to twenty bucks. it is all perspective.

 

[Mr. Rover]

Yeah- I completely agree with you. It's a matter of priorities and perspective. For example, lately I have become fed up with finding pieces with foreign body odor (a problem inherent to buying used clothes and someone who usually doesn't become self-conscious of my own body odor) and holes.
So, now I have found myself buying new clothes that have details that I liked in vintage clothing, part of why I started working for Ralph Lauren, and now Rugby. As a student, I am still able to be around clothes that I like, make money for selling it, and I get a helluva discount, making it much more affordable to me. I do believe that Ralph Lauren is on the pricey side- our products are overpriced for what they are, but the style and relative quality of what you are buying is better than most items at Target. Also, as a brand, RL wants to be exclusive, which is why it isn't priced the same as, say, Gap. In a similar way, it is like the mindset of people who buy vintage 30s clothing, but the exchange for money is in time spent finding, oftentimes repairing, and occasionally altering. Time is money, right? Some people are willing to pay more for not having to make their rounds at the thrift stores and spending long nights on eBay searching for what they want.

 

[nicemouth]

Ray-

I understand what you mean and appreciate your candor. Your points are all well-taken.

I got excited when I read bburtner's original post. Here was an older guy who obviously had TONS of experience buying and selling antiques and vintage clothing. And on top of that, he actually DISAGREED with a lot of what I've read on this forum, he seemed to be a little rough around the edges, his typing was unusual, he was opinionated and gruff, and...he bought his trousers at Target!! This guy was a dream-come-true to a forum that has been treading water with the same tired discussions about only shaving with "vintage" creams and whether or not arm bands can still be worn today.

I WANTED TO KNOW A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE! I engaged him and hoped he would spar.

...and just like that, he was shut down. Stomped down because his own self-proclaimed high school education prohibited him from typing well-enough to participate on such an ACCOMPLISHED chat board. His position was dismissed as a "pity party" by a probable punk who would most likely NEVER say such a disrespectful thing to a mature man in person. To his credit, and because he sounds like a class act, bburtner gracefully apologized and stepped out, and a golden opportunity for "young bucks" to learn something from an experienced collector was LOST because of the arrogance of some people here. I can only assume that these same people seem to enjoy reading over and over and over again in countless, endless threads the same played-out information about Indiana Jones' leather jacket.

Yes, this thread changed early on. I was waiting for two years for the right time to jump and participate and now it's gone. I guess I should be grateful that this happened so I won't have to waste any more time hoping that the quality of discourse would improve. It's a real shame.

 

[MadelienneBlack]

Mr. Rover,

I think your opinion on the subject is really intersting, seeing as how, if I'm correct (?), you were recently on the Today show because of your impeccable fashion taste? Congrats on that, by the way!

Just out of curiosity, if you didn't work for Ralph Lauren and Rugby and get the discount, would you still spend the money on the high prices?

 

[Mr. Rover]

Thank you, yes- that was me I, before working for RL, owned all of 4 pieces from the Ralph Lauren line of clothes: a bowtie and printed polka dotted tie that i had a lot of trouble finding vintage (both on sale), and a shirt and a pair of trousers from an outlet. I bought a Double RL, a more true vintage-inspired RL spinoff brand, unconstructed jacket from the same outlet. Even working there, I was often in vintage clothing (suits) mixed with RL pieces, mostly their ties and dress shirts as that was what I was selling. But I understood the price and why it was that high- the people who buy from this brand want to live in the Gatsby life...and they pay for it.
There is a quote from Ralph Lauren- that he is inspired by heroes. People who want to dress like heroes, they are attracted to Ralph's clothes and that dream. That is the secret to Ralph's success- he designs dreams and the clothes that fit in them. Ralph's customers, and I think a lot the "vintage lifestyle" people on this forum, are buying into that shared dream.
On the other hand, I did buy several sale and full price pieces from the Rugby line, which I would consider relatively reasonably priced (although the prices are gradually increasing as the brand has developed a following and demand). But there are still at a point that I consider the product uniquely vintage and exclusive in idea rather than what the MSRP is. The problem is the business side of it, where, because of its larger awareness, there is becoming a larger need to accommodate potential customers...fit isn't as good, there aren't as many sizes. It's a problem.

 

[Mr. Rover]

Ray-

I understand what you mean and appreciate your candor. Your points are all well-taken.

I got excited when I read bburtner's original post. Here was an older guy who obviously had TONS of experience buying and selling antiques and vintage clothing. And on top of that, he actually DISAGREED with a lot of what I've read on this forum, he seemed to be a little rough around the edges, his typing was unusual, he was opinionated and gruff, and...he bought his trousers at Target!! This guy was a dream-come-true to a forum that has been treading water with the same tired discussions about only shaving with "vintage" creams and whether or not arm bands can still be worn today.

I WANTED TO KNOW A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE! I engaged him and hoped he would spar.

...and just like that, he was shut down. Stomped down because his own self-proclaimed high school education prohibited him from typing well-enough to participate on such an ACCOMPLISHED chat board. His position was dismissed as a "pity party" by a probable punk who would most likely NEVER say such a disrespectful thing to a mature man in person. To his credit, and because he sounds like a class act, bburtner gracefully apologized and stepped out, and a golden opportunity for "young bucks" to learn something from an experienced collector was LOST because of the arrogance of some people here. I can only assume that these same people seem to enjoy reading over and over and over again in countless, endless threads the same played-out information about Indiana Jone's leather jacket.

Yes, this thread changed early on. I was waiting for two years for the right time to jump and participate and now it's gone. I guess I should be grateful that this happened so I won't have to waste any more time hoping that the quality of discourse would improve. It's a real shame.

I guess that's the price you pay when a forum outgrows its original core...It is a real shame. I am waiting for new material to be provided- being 19 and having lived only in the NY area and overseas, I haven't lived as long as older collectors here and don't have the same expanse of knowledge about vintage Americana as people in the west coast and in the midwest, where it seems like there is a lot vintage still available in decent, affordable prices.
I got my Indiana Jones jacket- put a lot of thought and research into it before having it commissioned from Wested, but now I have it, pretty satisfied with it (still wear it and still holds up after 3 or 4 years now)...but I'm over talking about it. Let's talk about something new.
I went through Indy (like alot of the members here), I went through the noir..I know ALL about the effing armholes. I love it all still, but now I'm more interested in the collegiate/varsity/country styles that can be dressy and be classy but can also double as workwear, which this forum is less interested in, hence my limited participation here now and larger interest in Rugby and the styles that inspired it.

 

[nicemouth]

You sound like a good egg, Ray. Best of luck to you.