Is this a movement?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ if so what?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s it called?

[Renderking Fisk]

Is this a movement… if so what’s it called?

Is this a movement… if so what’s it called.

While walking with my sons yesterday the thought in the form of a question occurred to me: Is this a movement?

There’s a group of us on-line who gather and talk about the style and substance of ‘The Golden Era,’ and trying to bring it back to the 21st Century. There have been people like Michealson who have been enamored with that period long before “Raiders Of The Lost Ark,� There are people like me who were turned on by the Classic Black and Whtie’s but the anachronistic obsession didn’t click until the Harrison Ford classic, and there are a few people who are under the age of 21 who embrace the golden era as a means of rejecting the current culture of lust, smut and foolish materialism.

Then there are people who are into the style and substance of that period of western culture between 1920 to 1950 for no other reason because it just looks cool.

Is this a movement? Is this “Retro-Counter culture?� Are we “Retro-sexuals?� How do you describe this movement if this is what it is?

I’m not looking for labels because I think we transcend them. But is there a name for this movement of ours?

 

[BellyTank]

Vintage-Lifestylers...

Vintage Lifestyle is a known term- does it cover your meaning?

BT.

 

[Renderking Fisk]

I thought this would be a good conversation starter. I'm a page into a new rant about the "counter culture" and how the Vintage Lifestyle seems to ebb and flow every few years and the thought struck me that we might be part of the "Retro Counter-Culture," but I don't want to be the one to define this group...

... I want to know what everyone else thinks and see what lables they use.

 

[Chad Sanborn]

I have heard the term 'retro-sexual' used before to describe people of our 'kind'.


Chad

 

[Cabinetman]

You know, why is it that we (people in general) have to have a word or label or classification for absolutely everything? It's just a thought, not a dig at Eric. Maybe I can answer my own question with - We are defined (and limited) by our vocabulary.

Words are so glorious. Overused. Descriptive. Abusive. Uplifting. What's another word I can use to decribe words?

I'm not making my point 100% here. Probably need to digest this a bit longer.

I'd like to think that those of us who like the vintage style, or wear the vintage clothes (rather, clothes that happen to have been made 60 years ago), or listen to "old" music (music is timeless, by the way), or anything else you can attribute to this line of thinking, can simply be called "people". We wear "clothes" and listen to "music".

Cab

 

[BellyTank]

To answer your question-
'to describe'- to put it into words- we all think differently and words are a coarse scale but they certainly are a clue to meaning.
...if I said to a person, 'I met with some people who wear clothes and listen to music'- it wouldn't be very descriptive now would it?
Classification is just a shortcut to transmitting meaning- can help others to understand.
But we all deny the ability of others to classify us.

Music is timeless? What does that mean?
Music can definitely be evocative of another era purely by nature of the way it sounds.

Hmmm....

BT.

 

[Cabinetman]

Well, like I said. I probably need to digest it a bit longer. Not unlike the lunch that I just finished. But I hold to those initial thoughts.

I do think that folks probably spend as much time trying to be unique as they do trying to fit in (to whatever).

 

[Renderking Fisk]

Just to clarify…

I’m not looking for labels because I think we transcend them. But is there a name for this movement of ours?

Another reason why I posted this question is exactly the reasons you stated, Cab. I don’t like it, but folks like to use labels and there are folks who label us with or with out our consent. I just think that if they’re going to use a label - it would be nice for us to try and pick it for them first.

Another aspect I wanted to ask is that I’m always hearing about “Movements,� There’s a movement for this, there’s a movement for that, a cultural movement, and a political movement, movement in the movie or music industry. Is THIS a movement?

Third, I just thought this was a great opportunity to be introspective and an incredible topic to share.

 

[Cabinetman]

Oh, and as far as music being timeless, let's say that music from the (pick a decade) is all you ever listen to. This is probably true in some of our cases. Regardless of what is being recorded in 2005, the music we currently enjoy is our "now", even though it is not contemporary. Then there are the bar bands that continue to play the same music over and over. I mean new bands today are playing the same tunes that their fathers played when they had a band. Not sure if the so-called "classic rock" comes with the territory or what, but regardless of the demographic audience (or performer), this music endures. It's "timeless".

 

[Cabinetman]

It is good discussion (although I need to make this my last post and get back to the shop). Movement, to me, describes cultural recognition and embodiment by society. I think that's what I mean. Like, when does a fad quit being a fad and become a movement? Or are they the same thing? A movement to me is lasting. Altering. Going from from one set of circumstances to another (sometimes called, "progress"), and not going back. "The such-and-such movement shed a whole new light on blankety-blank, and now banks don't use paper money anymore."

I think what we have is more of a population boom. A growing population that owns computers and has internet access. Can I say I would like "vintage stuff" without this thing I'm typing on? Sure. You already mentioned Michaelson. Oh, I just thought of this. Maybe we're all Virtual Bogarts. I'd rather be a Virtual Sinatra or a Virtual Stuart.

Really, what I mean is, was a lot of this out there before already, we just have the means to see it (and sell it) a lot more readily? Take the boys for instance, Fisk. I am exaggerating a bit here, but did anybody have children before Coppertop came along? Before our daughter, I never gave much thought to kids walking by themselves. Suddenly, I see all these 5 year-olds playing in the street. Our bulldog. We got our first one right after we got married 10-1/2 years ago. Then, WOW, we were seeing bulldogs everywhere (mostly on TV). But there wasn't anything magic about the birth of our child (well, yes it was, but you know what I mean), nor the arrival of our dog that made it "global". They were just at our forefront, and our eyes became more opened to this familiarity, and probably closed to other things.

Does "outside society" view us as a particular body of people, or do we just think "they" do? Is there any real difference?

 

[BellyTank]

I think, with your reasoning in mind Fisk, it's nicer for you (us) to make a label that 'they' can use to describe 'us'.
Or for 'us' to describe 'us' to 'them'.
A pro-active ore pre-emptive effort, rather than that 'they' coin a phrase that labels 'us'. (I like that- than that 'they')

Whether it's a movement or not-?
depends on maybe if there is a united and unified understanding
of what 'it' is- within the interest-group,
I guess.
I don't think that I'm part of a movement- I have my interests, we all have our interests, some of them collide, some are deeper seated than others...

You could be generic and call it an interest group- 'movement' sounds too 'Socio-Political' to me- I'm just interested- don't really want to change or affect anything.
But 'Vintage Lifestyle' is one that exists, which encompasses most of the interests covered by this group...

And yes, it is interesting!

BT.

 

[MDFrench]

I was just talking about this with a friend last night. I hope what I am about to say makes sense.

For me, I used to think I was an eccentric fanboy of classic cinema and the 1930s-40s. Only recently have I discovered that it is not a sense of nostalgia that drives me, but a longing for way of life that should have remained but got lost. Let me explain:

Surely there are things about the golden era that I would not want to revisit, namely segregation and racism. However, the problem with western "progress" from 1950 forward was an entirely new philosophy, or lack thereof, which changed the face of the human landscape forever. ALL of the old ways were rejected in favor of a new world, and many of those ideals that guided us were rejected by default with everything else.

In the golden era, there was a greater sense of social responsibility, aiding the common person, helping your neighbor. The newspapers and the country banded together in unison to help national security during the war, for example. It wasn't social, self-centered anarchy like it is now.

The 1950s was the beginning of mass production of synthetics, chemicals that suddenly made everything disposable. Very quickly, products were not made to last, they were made to be replaced often, which created a new business philosophy, don't build to last, build to force people to buy often. Even simple things like flashlights went from being metal to cheap and flimsy plastic. Why is the MagLight the best flashlight today? Made of metal, that's why - built to last.

With that world of disposable material came a youth culture that became indoctrinated into the throwaway lifestyle. Within this generation would divorce rates skyrocket as suddenly the throw-away philosophy beld into how they dealt with other people, not just how they treated material possessions. No longer was there a wish to maintain anything. You had to take care of things like hats, boots, and suits - you had to maintain them. The 50s youth culture opted for jeans, canvas tennis shoes, and white undershirts. They had no sense of responsibility, no sense of working for something you want and maintaining it once you have it.

It soon became a world where the throw-away lifestyle led to the impatient lifestyle. Relationships became FAST, cars became FAST, and even food went FAST. The days of McDonalds were upon us. By the 1960s, youth took another turn. With men like JFK and Elvis showing more concern for their hair than their morals, that generation took a cue and started focusing on themselves, how they looked. They stopped looking out for others, they simply looked out for themselves, and the world of material goods was there to meet the demand and advertise in kind. Possessions were more important than people - money over morality.

In the 1960s youth went hippie. Not only had they no sense of responsibility, they now felt no obligation towards ANYTHING. They not only wanted love FAST, but they also wanted it FOR FREE - without consequences. They didn't want to be a part of the most basic everyday staples like having jobs, paying bills, and participating in the system. They wanted to be FREE to do nothing.

Flash forward to the civil rights movement, a noble effort by all accounts and a necessary one, but with consequences. Rather than recognize the fallacy of segregation and simply correct that, suddenly organizations like the ACLU decided that EVERYTHING from the past was bad. All of it was to be rejected in favor of a brave new world. Old world values were mistakenly seen as "white values" and complete erasure was the mantra.

As time moved forward, those materialistic generations became the leaders of our country. Now, after fifty years of growth, disposable materialism and selfish secularism are the accepted ways of life. The person with the most toys wins. My generation is mired in it, and with that, we also experienced the 1990s, the age of political correctness in which entities like the aforementioned ACLU turned the screws even more, invalidating things like American History and our founding fathers simply because they were white and written from a white perspective. Problem is, the "new" politically correct history textbooks are fluff pieces - I've read them. They teach kids NOTHING. What has happened in the few years since is that now our rampant materialism is compounded by widespread ignorance.

People just a few years younger than I aren't being taught history anymore. They have no sense of place in the world, no appreciation for the country or the past, and at the same time are growing up in a world of selfish materialism. No sense of heritage, no sense of responsibility for others, no sense of moderation - only money and material. This is a combination leading to DISASTER.

I am a person drawn to the 1930s and 1940s for its way of life. I like being a person who knows how to earn and take care of things like hats and shoes. It instills a sense of responsibility and also a sense of loyalty. Instead of simply throwing a hat away, I get it reblocked. My shoes are resoled, reheeled. If youth had still been doing such things for the last fifty years instead of living in a disposable world, things like relationships and marriages would be mended, reblocked, and cleaned - not tossed.

Now we sit in a society covered in its own trash - both physical and metaphorical - and it's damned overwhelming. We've tossed away so much in the last 50 years - not just Coke bottles, but values and responsibilities that make a human being feel like a whole person, a good person. Why does depression run rampant today? Because so many of us live with a hollow inside us - a hollow that will never be filled unless that person realizes that it can only be filled when that person looks outside themselves and thinks about someone else for a change.

All of the depressed youths I have met wallow in their problems. It's all about them and their possessions, and what they don't have and what people aren't giving them, how they feel, how they hurt, etc. The moment society decides to look outside itself again, and consider others in the grand scheme - when people look at one another rather than obsess in the mirror - the world will be a better place again.

That's why I like the intrinsic nature of the golden era. It's not the "stuff," but the mindset behind the stuff.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Actually, to me it is in many ways the opposite.

My interest mainly centers on the teens through the late 30's. To me, this was the last era of small government. Starting in the early 30's, government started to become a greater and greater part of American life (it wasn't called the Red Decade for nothing.)

Of course, I am not an anarchist, but a person living in the 20's simply had a larger amount of personal freedom. For instance, can you imagine buying a Thompson submachinegun through mail order today? Today's culture would never allow such a thing.

I would love to have lived before the "New Deal" and the "Great Society."

Anyway, this is only the political angle. There is so much more. From clothing to music to architecture to language.

I don't really buy the idea that it is materialism that has caused the decline of elegance and style. It was materialism which created the "golden era" to begin with. There is nothing inherent in polyester material that requires that it be made into a horrible leisure suit (or any sort of clothing at all.) Consumer demand creates such horrific articles.

 

[Mycroft]

What we all (or most of us) do is not really bring back styles and dress, etc., but continue them. Just a thought.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Most people just call me weird....

I've got knickers and stockings on, and a linen newsboy cap. I've got a urge to stand on the corner and shout, "Extra, Extra, Read All About It!"

 

[Mycroft]

Most people just call me weird....

I hear, the same is for me.

 

[BellyTank]

But Mycroft...

... you really are weird!

BT.

 

[Mycroft]

... you really are weird!

BT.

What ever gave you that idea??

 

[Dr. Shocker]

I think for as many people who are moving forward in style and fashion there are just as many searching the past for style and fashion..... We look to era's we can associate with for many here the golden era for some of us its a bit later......but we all see somthing in yesterday that inspires us.......just as the swing kats from a few years ago, greasers today.....or dare I say it that weird mix of 70's and 80's post punk look some of the kids are adopting (I like to kall it geekcore it entertains me)......ideals and concepts from those eras entice us, but remember we intermingle them with ideals from today......yes they were great times but so is today with the freedom of information, less racism (soon to be gone I hope), better communication, Equal Rights (mostly), and beter health care (in most areas)......many of us combine these good contemporary ideals with older ones such as manners to creat waht we beleive to be the best of both worlds......just a thought....of course it is only my opinion

 

[flat-top]

This is something I always think about, but this thread made me want to express it. When I go to an event, like Viva Las Vegas let's say, I'm just another "Rockabilly" milling around with 5000 more of "me". But when I, and the 5000 other attendees go home, they are once again,(for the most part) the "weirdo" in their town, or at work, at the bar, etc. And honestly, I PREFER that. I am truly a unique character in my area. As much as I LOVE going to Vegas, and LA, where you will find other "retro" types, I relish my individuality. Strangely, just yesterday a guy who works at GNC commented on my "Rockabilly/ Swing" look, which shocked me since around here, I wouldn't think that anybody knows what that style is! (btw, I was wearing two-tone shoes and a wide 40's tie, but whatever..)
I'm grateful for places like The Fedora Lounge, where I can share with like-minded people, and not feel like one of the sheep!
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