Is the vintage hat market dead?

[Edward]

Yes, the search tool on Etsy is just primitive and vexing.

I begin to wonder if that is deliberate, to encourage browsing, rather than zoning in on a specific item search. It can be a real pain, though.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

This is a topic that interests me and touches closely. I have thought about it a lot in recent months and have decided not to sell hats here anymore. I'm sorry, but too few requests, perhaps also due to transport costs from Europe, but above all a lack of interest. I also recognize that the hats I put on sale are European and the interest is not as great as for US made hats, moreover I have always practiced a very favorable pricing policy which, however, has not paid off. I also find that making cheap prices does not count because I then see mediocre hats sold at dizzying prices, but I know the market and its protagonists here on FL. I also believe that interest in vintage hats has declined with the aging of a generation and actually FL is, in my opinion, in a period of tiredness. I am working to open a small online shop for the hats I have to sell which are many and some rare and unobtainable, where fans will be able to have at hand and eyes what is available without dispersing the hats among a thousand other items of clothing. I will keep you informed

As someone who has benefited from your generosity, I hope you don’t feel ill-used here at TFL. It’s difficult to find European hats and I’ve always appreciated your willingness to share both your hats and your knowledge.

I found your comment on TFL being in a period of “tiredness” interesting. The focus has changed from the beginning and most of the original members have drifted away. New members come along and we gain and we lose. Some folks won’t like the new direction and wish for a return to the old days. There’s a seasonal component too where felt hats and members contributing decline in the warmer months. However, I too think there has been a general decline in participation here. Part of it may well be due to the difficulty in finding great vintage hats that get interest up. I know that some members have felt ill-treated by others and have left or severely curtailed their postings rather than deal with caustic people.

There are also more alternatives now such as Facebook groups and Instagram etc. I know that a lot of the focus has shifted to those other social media sites.

 

[belfastboy]

I begin to wonder if that is deliberate, to encourage browsing, rather than zoning in on a specific item search. It can be a real pain, though.

It has the opposite affect on me as I tend to not bother searching...too vexing. I have a few known suppliers and if they don't have I just go elsewhere on line.

 

[Frunobulax]

As someone who has benefited from your generosity, I hope you don’t feel ill-used here at TFL. It’s difficult to find European hats and I’ve always appreciated your willingness to share both your hats and your knowledge.

I found your comment on TFL being in a period of “tiredness” interesting. The focus has changed from the beginning and most of the original members have drifted away. New members come along and we gain and we lose. Some folks won’t like the new direction and wish for a return to the old days. There’s a seasonal component too where felt hats and members contributing decline in the warmer months. However, I too think there has been a general decline in participation here. Part of it may well be due to the difficulty in finding great vintage hats that get interest up. I know that some members have felt ill-treated by others and have left or severely curtailed their postings rather than deal with caustic people.

There are also more alternatives now such as Facebook groups and Instagram etc. I know that a lot of the focus has shifted to those other social media sites.

I think it precedes your involvement, Brent, but the "tiredness" comment is spot on. When I joined in about 2014, there was a cohort of oldsters and "newsters," including some members who went back pretty far (talking specifically the hat forums, here). While it is true some of them dropped off for various reasons (including death), the site was a lot more active then, in no uncertain terms.

There were times in those days where, if you went away from the WHAYWT thread for a couple of hours, you had 4-5 pages to catch up on. It's still an interesting crew, but not nearly as numerous or active. The focus has changed a bit, too. I see more folks interested in hats in general than Golden Era hats and the history that surrounds them, as one example.

 

[belfastboy]

I think it precedes your involvement, Brent, but the "tiredness" comment is spot on. When I joined in about 2014, there was a cohort of oldsters and "newsters," including some members who went back pretty far (talking specifically the hat forums, here). While it is true some of them dropped off for various reasons (including death), the site was a lot more active then, in no uncertain terms.

There were times in those days where, if you went away from the WHAYWT thread for a couple of hours, you had 4-5 pages to catch up on. It's still an interesting crew, but not nearly as numerous or active. The focus has changed a bit, too. I see more folks interested in hats in general than Golden Era hats and the history that surrounds them, as one example.

I think I joined around 2014 (but could be mistaken.....again). I remember being awestruck at the repository of knowledge in this Forum. It still exists but not to same extent, not the encyclopedic breadth of knowledge that existed then. I remember reading the thread of "The Hatted Professor" for example...other names escape me right now. And thankfully we still have some members from 'back in the day' that possess that depth of knowledge.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I think it precedes your involvement, Brent, but the "tiredness" comment is spot on. When I joined in about 2014, there was a cohort of oldsters and "newsters," including some members who went back pretty far (talking specifically the hat forums, here). While it is true some of them dropped off for various reasons (including death), the site was a lot more active then, in no uncertain terms.

There were times in those days where, if you went away from the WHAYWT thread for a couple of hours, you had 4-5 pages to catch up on. It's still an interesting crew, but not nearly as numerous or active. The focus has changed a bit, too. I see more folks interested in hats in general than Golden Era hats and the history that surrounds them, as one example.

Yes, I was a lurker for some time before I joined and the “feel” of the Lounge is definitely different now and the number of active members was much higher back in the day. I think that this was once really the only place and now we have many options and enthusiasts are spread out more. I agree that it’s also less focused on the Golden Era now than it was. I have to go further and further back to find the really great posts on vintage hats and their dating and identification. I’m sure some of the more serious “expert” members were/are put off by so many modern hats and so many frivolous posts. I still enjoy this place.

 

[Edward Reed]

... and the number of active members was much higher back in the day....

I'm in a number of various interest forums and the declining active members issue is widespread. I'm afraid the "golden era" of interest forums is over and people have gotten bored, moved on because of life in general and the new gens are interested in the look at me moments of TikTok and instagram. Even the Facebook groups are slow and dying. Usually a slight uptick during the colder winter months when people prefer to stay inside but the past two years or so I have experienced cobwebs and empty seats even during the winter months. I think a lot of people have just gotten over forums in general and occasionally peak in after a year or two to see what's up for old time's sake and see nothing happening or nothing really new and they step back out to live a life. I often take breaks from my handful of forums and take long walks, window shop and people watch because I no longer feel like I'm enriching my life or hobby by sitting in front of my computer. I say that as I now sit on the couch and try to regular contribute but I don't have a wife, girlfriend or well, any friends really,... sad as that is. and its bugging me that I have no social life. 5 years after my divorce of 20 years marriage and I"m still bitter, depressed and have very little motivation or ambition. 54 years old and I'm a lonely old man with not much to look forward to. every day I try to think of an active hobby to get me out of my apartment... Meetup app has very little for men my age. I enjoy reading posts at this forum quite a bit but it does tend to be redundant. what hat are you wearing? what jacket are you wearing today? what movie did you watch... what are you drinking. well, its hot so no hat, no jacket, same drink... same movies everyone else is or has already watched. its the same over at my other forums. not much new. hopefully that will change. I'm on "staycation" right now. a week off and labor day off... no where to go, no money to do so anyway and its hot as hell out so my long walks are uncomfortable. so I'm watching a lot of movies.

addendum; to stay on topic, I own two vintage royal Stetson Fedoras and like them quite a bit but no need to own more than I could really ever wear. I do look at them at Etsy and Ebay and anything that is identified as pre 1950s always gets bids and sell.... not many of those come up though but `1960s do and those seem to do okay as well... so there's that from my point of view.

 

[Chiliarches]

Wow.

My last post was in 2011 (I am now 33, so my life has certainly changed since). I recall passionate collectors and dandies that looked as if they stepped out of time machine from the 1930s, with a different hat for each day of the month. There was this one guy in New York who looked like a real tough hombre and wore the heck out of every hat he put on his head. I traded him something (don’t remember what, a lovely gray mode edge Stetson if memory serves) for peach Stetson Playboy (bantam weight I believe)…and I think I got my blue Stratoliner from him also somehow. Those were lovely old days. All the posts about the “swoop” of the brim and and the height of the crown and all that.

It’s an interesting observation about the decline of forums generally. I haven’t noticed that in the hobbies I pay attention to (audio, guns), but those are a little different I suppose. I could see how hats and vintage things would be more affected by fashion.

Another comment: Who the heck would want to emulate the 80’s? The 80’s was the ugliest decade of the 20th century, possibly of the last two centuries.

 

[Rmccamey]

@Daniele Tanto I understand your sentiments but your hats and wealth of knowledge are always appreciated here.

Tiredness, perhaps, but I'm not sure there is a single cause or single cure. I suspect that we are "old" as a group, so that is one aspect. My job is almost entirely on a computer (nothing I would have ever imagined when I was in college) and at the end of the day, I'm ready to log off and get outside. As such, my posts are much more seasonal - more in the winter months, less in the summer. Also, as I have learned more from old posts and current members, my preferences have changed and thus my buying habits have changed and thus my postings have changed. I know more about vintage hats and so I am much more focused on acquiring special hats or styles.

I've not looked at a large scale to know what the vintage hat market really is, but how many true collectors could there be? 100 perhaps? Sure, there are the high end collectors who own one of Elvis' hats, but how many have a collection of of unique, vintage hats? Probably not many. How many vintage hat enthusiasts are there across the globe (I include myself in this group)? A few thousand? When I look at Ebay, I'm always surprised at the number of vintage hats for sale but I have to temper that against the sheer number of Ebay users to put things into perspective. All in all, vintage hats are an exceedingly narrow and very focused market.

We don't know what the future holds but I have this glimmer of hope that TFL will be around for a long time. If nothing else, it seems to be a great repository for hat history. I know I have learned a lot from the old posts and also from newer members like @Blare and @Randall Renshaw whose hat knowledge quickly exceeded mine and from who I learn something every week. Stefan, Alan, Danielle, Brent, @Short Balding Guy , @mayserwegener @Steve1857 @BobHufford @Frunobulax and many, many others have really made learning about hats a tremendous fun and exciting experience. While activity on TFL may ebb and flow, I'm not throwing in the towel just yet!

My apologies for the long, rambling post. There was just a few things I wanted to get of my chest and this seemed like the right thread.

Have a great day, everyone!

Yes, I love my bowlers, too! Something else I never dreamed of when I was in college!

 

[glider]

It has gotten a lot harder to find a nice vintage hat at a decent price. That was part of the fun for me. I think a lot of folks have discovered that some old hats can be resold for a very nice profit. There are some new production hats of very good quality for less money than some of the vintage hats I've seen on the bay and other places also. I buy hats to wear and I'm not going to pay outrageous prices for a vintage hat. I rarely come across a really good deal anymore, nice when I do and of course I jump but just not a lot to choose from.

 

[Frunobulax]

I think I joined around 2014 (but could be mistaken.....again). I remember being awestruck at the repository of knowledge in this Forum. It still exists but not to same extent, not the encyclopedic breadth of knowledge that existed then. I remember reading the thread of "The Hatted Professor" for example...other names escape me right now. And thankfully we still have some members from 'back in the day' that possess that depth of knowledge.

Sez here you joined January 16, 2015. I joined on January 5, 2015.

Yes, I agree. Not only was there more activity, but some of the discussions were "deeper." We had some formidible hat enthusiasts on here who really knew their stuff. Not that we don't now, as well, but I think it was more focused on that aspect and those who held the discussions were able to impart valuable insights.

On the other hand, I don't think we had as many folks who actually were into making and working on hats. You, @humanshoes, @ChicagoWayVito, and others are enthusastic about producing good quality modern hats, and some Memebers like Brent are really into the felt supply chain and the like. That adds a different and interesting twist.

 

[belfastboy]

Sez here you joined January 16, 2015. I joined on January 5, 2015.

Yes, I agree. Not only was there more activity, but some of the discussions were "deeper." We had some formidible hat enthusiasts on here who really knew their stuff. Not that we don't now, as well, but I think it was more focused on that aspect and those who held the discussions were able to impart valuable insights.

On the other hand, I don't think we had as many folks who actually were into making and working on hats. You, @humanshoes, @ChicagoWayVito, and others are enthusastic about producing good quality modern hats, and some Memebers like Brent are really into the felt supply chain and the like. That adds a different and interesting twist.

Now I have reason to defer to you.....seniority!!!

 

[Short Balding Guy]

@Daniele Tanto I understand your sentiments but your hats and wealth of knowledge are always appreciated here.

Tiredness, perhaps, but I'm not sure there is a single cause or single cure. I suspect that we are "old" as a group, so that is one aspect. My job is almost entirely on a computer (nothing I would have ever imagined when I was in college) and at the end of the day, I'm ready to log off and get outside. As such, my posts are much more seasonal - more in the winter months, less in the summer. Also, as I have learned more from old posts and current members, my preferences have changed and thus my buying habits have changed and thus my postings have changed. I know more about vintage hats and so I am much more focused on acquiring special hats or styles.

I've not looked at a large scale to know what the vintage hat market really is, but how many true collectors could there be? 100 perhaps? Sure, there are the high end collectors who own one of Elvis' hats, but how many have a collection of of unique, vintage hats? Probably not many. How many vintage hat enthusiasts are there across the globe (I include myself in this group)? A few thousand? When I look at Ebay, I'm always surprised at the number of vintage hats for sale but I have to temper that against the sheer number of Ebay users to put things into perspective. All in all, vintage hats are an exceedingly narrow and very focused market.

We don't know what the future holds but I have this glimmer of hope that TFL will be around for a long time. If nothing else, it seems to be a great repository for hat history. I know I have learned a lot from the old posts and also from newer members like @Blare and @Randall Renshaw whose hat knowledge quickly exceeded mine and from who I learn something every week. Stefan, Alan, Danielle, Brent, @Short Balding Guy , @mayserwegener @Steve1857 @BobHufford @Frunobulax and many, many others have really made learning about hats a tremendous fun and exciting experience. While activity on TFL may ebb and flow, I'm not throwing in the towel just yet!

My apologies for the long, rambling post. There was just a few things I wanted to get of my chest and this seemed like the right thread.

Have a great day, everyone!

Yes, I love my bowlers, too! Something else I never dreamed of when I was in college!
View attachment 358144

I am honored to be included in on your list sir. Cheers, Eric -

 

[Frunobulax]

Now I have reason to defer to you.....seniority!!!

Oh, Lord, please don't!

Besides, you're still older than me in real time.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Vintage market dead: No it is not dead, just on a hiatus, IMO. Folks will continue to seek history and detail to reflect upon the human condition they live. Perhaps this is not a societal time of reflection.

I too reminisce about the past, but I live today and in eager anticipation of tomorrow. I wear hats, vintage and modern custom. I eagerly read the Lounge in the past. I gained insight, info, history and appreciation for the forum folks and their hats. TFL was "the source." The smaller population of TFL members allowed the experts voices to stand out from the fray. The experts, each in their own area, helped shape my experience. I enjoyed that immensely when I first joined. What has made me stay is the open atmosphere, the sense of community and being able to be inspired and informed by the others contributors. I take on a sense of obligation to participate.

Deep dives into hats will still find myself and others using this forum. IMO, their needs to be a balance between welcoming hat fans who wear and are occasionally divers into vintage hats/ hat ephemera and the passionate hat fans/collectors. TFL, like many forums, struggles with finding a balance that continues to grow the contributing members and providing a space for deeper conversations.

It is my belief that I can contribute to the growth by participating. Do you contribute? If so, your comments are valuable. Life ebbs and flows find me contributing in different frequency and quality. I have been working on contributing more details in my posts so that a trail of info can be garnered. My experience is very little poking at others passions and much recognizing contributors efforts. Cheers folks! Decorum on the forum! I say this with a caveat, we should not all like the same thing, speak the same language and act the same. This would be a sterile environment. Without some healthy discord, discussion or differences I would get bored and leave.

Today way more folks are accessing on-line forums and in general electronic media. The issue, IMO, is that folks simply want a more visually-pleasing experience along with more social features and more attention-grabbing items; they simply don't want basic forums, they want more. While the social platforms are intended and outfitted for different audiences the distinctions and usage blurs. TFL is an example of blurring lines.

A long type above. I hope it reads well enough.

Eric -

 

[Rmccamey]

You motivate me, Eric, and I aspire to have a collection like yours some day! Thanks for imparting your wisdom to the Lounge.

I am honored to be included in on your list sir. Cheers, Eric -

 

[mayserwegener]

My interests are Hat Industry focused, specifically the German and Austrian (+ post WWI Czechoslovakia) Hat Industries (this includes Felt production) and to a lesser extent the Italian Hat Industry. I enjoy collecting and wearing vintage / antique Soft and Stiff Felt Hats but I also want to find information on the factories and their production processes (pre and post WWII time periods). Basically anything related to the aforementioned Hat Industries.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

As someone who has benefited from your generosity, I hope you don’t feel ill-used here at TFL. It’s difficult to find European hats and I’ve always appreciated your willingness to share both your hats and your knowledge.

I found your comment on TFL being in a period of “tiredness” interesting. The focus has changed from the beginning and most of the original members have drifted away. New members come along and we gain and we lose. Some folks won’t like the new direction and wish for a return to the old days. There’s a seasonal component too where felt hats and members contributing decline in the warmer months. However, I too think there has been a general decline in participation here. Part of it may well be due to the difficulty in finding great vintage hats that get interest up. I know that some members have felt ill-treated by others and have left or severely curtailed their postings rather than deal with caustic people.

There are also more alternatives now such as Facebook groups and Instagram etc. I know that a lot of the focus has shifted to those other social media sites.

@Daniele Tanto I understand your sentiments but your hats and wealth of knowledge are always appreciated here.

I thank you for quoting me directly and all those who enjoyed reading my thoughts.
I believe that the way of participating on FL has changed a lot.
The reasons are many and some have been well highlighted by those who wrote before and after me. I want to add that I notice little curiosity about what is not known in the world of hats, as if finding the obvious was the only purpose of participation. Let's say that the safe used is the most requested one.
There is also a lack of patience on the part of some new and even old participants in wanting to find what they are looking for immediately. They often forget to read the hundreds of posts that explain or enrich the material they seek. When I started attending this forum the biggest fun was the challenge of bringing something useful, new and little known in the world of hats. Now it is also difficult because there are small obsessions: the date of manufacture of the hat with a thousand attempts to date what is often evident. I occasionally see hats dating back to the beginning of the last century that have the bottom of the crown covered in plastic Another obsession are the dimensions of the brims and the dome, everything seems to depend on this, or on the components of the felt: beaver? hare? nutria? or from the mixture of various hairs to obtain something memorable, as I learned by attending Italian, French and central European hats.
I could go on, but I still have a good passion to keep looking for hats, it takes time and desire and money, quality, their history and how useful it is to appreciate them.
Here, I recommend everyone a little commitment and patience.
Rome wasn't built in a day

 

[alanfgag]

When Al Feldstein died (2014, I think) I read a comment he had shared on the perennial discussion of which were the best years for MAD magazine. He said something to the effect that the best years for MAD were the years you were reading it. Seemed a good observation at the time and for many things in life, as we are not bystanders in a fixed place and time but afloat in a sea of waves of all sorts. In this community (one I still enjoy following) passion and focus comes and goes. Remarkable history and knowledge is collected, then buried and then uncovered again by both old timers and new folks with a burning interest - a result of both the waves of interest and the medium which is not friendly to archiving much of anything.

Fashion comes and goes of course and antiques surge and ebb in value. To misquote an illustrious Buffalonian, I expect that rumors of the death of the vintage hat market are greatly exaggerated. I admire and thank my friends here who have bucked the tradition to bail out in frustration from history repeating itself - remaining to contribute the wealth of their knowledge and collections over many years. I also think it a great idea to develop independent resources to archive your hats and hat knowledge and as a vehicle to sell and trade. I find myself visiting Brad Bowers pages on Dobbs hats often to refresh my knowledge as somehow I seem to be forgetting more than I ever knew.

Just a few days left to wear those straw hats so lets get out and get that done!

 

[belfastboy]

My interests are Hat Industry focused, specifically the German and Austrian (+ post WWI Czechoslovakia) Hat Industries (this includes Felt production) and to a lesser extent the Italian Hat Industry. I enjoy collecting and wearing vintage / antique Soft and Stiff Felt Hats but I also want to find information on the factories and their production processes (pre and post WWII time periods). Basically anything related to the aforementioned Hat Industries.

And I so appreciate your posts, your breadth and depth of knowledge. Even though it is not my area of interest I always read your posts, admire your hats and appreciate you.