is silence a valuable form of feedback?

[eClairvaux]

Dear fellow FL-users,

for a while now I have been wondering what to do when somebody posts a picture of themselves in their newly acquired and proudly presented jacket/coat etc. in the case that it does NOT look perfect.

My answer so far has been not to comment at all. Still somehow I am wondering if that is really such a good way to handle this and wether it is the best service I can do to the owner. Even if my feedback makes them less happy with their purchase, isn't it part and parcel of the whole idea of a forum of like-minded people to share opinions?

I know the answer to this question would entail some reminder on what form of negative feedback is valuable and what is not. There are also those cases where no tailor can help, because nature hasn't been that generous a supplier. Here it will be very hard to give feedback that will help the user to make a more educated choice next time.

However, I feel I have garnered considerable benefit from the more critical comments, certainly more than from unanimous applause. To me it feels like the Lounge is slipping slightly into a direction where this well-intentioned critical feedback becomes all too scarce.

I would like to ask for your feedback and by that encourage you to speak your mind more often and more clearly, while maintaining the high level of civility we are enjoying here.

thank you in advance for your thoughts!

 

[Feraud]

It depends on if the person is asking for feedback on cut, fit, etc. or just wants to show off an item.
Big difference.

 

[Justhandguns]

Well, I'd would say... "You ain't see nothing yet".

I have been to some other forums where comments are all very discouraging. I haven't been following all the threads here but I presume that most comments are pretty constructive. Of course, it is useful if one can give meaningful comments rather just plain critisms. Let's say, the jacket doesn't fit at all, but how? Is it the sleeve? Is it the shoulder, or is it just the style.

 

[slicker63]

Tell it as it is..... I hope as soon as I post some pictures I can get some good honest feedback..... good .... hopefully but I'm not going to crawl into my closet and sulk if it's bad or indifferent..... I may disagree.... or I may be shown something I never knew... and learn !!!

 

[Dav]

Doesn't it depend on what the OP of a thread asks, I mean if someone is not certain about the fit of a garment they generally say that and invite opinions whereas if they are showing of something new and expensive the last thing they wont to be told is that they look awful, even if perhaps in the opinion of the viewer the fit is not what THEY would like. I have seen several jackets posted on here that IMO don't seem perfect yet the owner and other posters say is fine so I wouldn't wish to jump in and knock what others like.

 

[Jeff M]

Doesn't it depend on what the OP of a thread asks, I mean if someone is not certain about the fit of a garment they generally say that and invite opinions whereas if they are showing of something new and expensive the last thing they wont to be told is that they look awful, even if perhaps in the opinion of the viewer the fit is not what THEY would like. I have seen several jackets posted on here that IMO don't seem perfect yet the owner and other posters say is fine so I wouldn't wish to jump in and knock what others like.

Yep.

 

[scottyrocks]

I'll reinforce those eho wrote that the feedback should be tailored (pardon the pun) to what the OP asks. Fit is not the same as style or patterns.

Sometimes an OP will just ask something like, 'What do you think about this?' Kind of wide-open. I'd say to be gentle when offering criticsm in all cases. Sometimes someone will post something just to show it off. I dont love everything everyone is wearing but I keep my opinions to myself if nothing is asked.

 

[JanSolo]

Fair is foul, and foul is fair! Hover through filth and misty air!
I have to agree with eClairvaux. Indeed there have been cases were a fellow lounger has asked for honest opinions concerning the fit of a specific jacket. Well, sometimes the fit wasn't that good or the whole 'assortement' of the attire didn't match the style of the jacket (or other piece of garment) and still many members said what a terrific looking piece of garment they'd aquired. I can't exclude myself from that!

It's probably a bit harsh to say but I think you always have to see clothing in the closest relation to its wearer. This forum isn't only about classic clothing but also about style! And that doesn't only mean that you posess a number of great jackets but also that you know how to wear them! (Or learn how to wear vintage inspired clothing via this forum.) What's the use of a stitch for stitch replica of certain A2 contract if you wear cheap looking, bad fitting stone washed mall jeans and velcro sandals with it!? Two simple examples: AERO FQHH Cafe Racer... Great jacket! But not in size 48 if you're only 5"9. RedWing classic moc toe work boot...classic 50s boot but not the best choice if you take a size 13 as it makes your feet look even bigger!

Again, it's also about style! Nobody wants to look like that:

 

[Undertow]

For the most part, I believe we are all friends here - or at least friendly. I think friends ought to be honest with each other, and sometimes a bit frank. I mean to say, we ought to treat one another with the same respect we would treat ladies and gentlemen in public.

With that in mind, if someone posts pictures to show off their new item, or look, etc. and if that look is not so pleasant, I suggest handling it as you would in person. Maybe send a PM, or maybe just add some kind of pleasant advice. If your observation is really quite rude, maybe consider silence as the alternative (as you've already suggested).

Although posting pictures in the lounge should not necessarily open one up to public scrutiny, it is, after all, a certain aspect of belonging to an online forum such as this. And as Feraud and others have mentioned, if the particular individual has not requested feedback, a little tact may be welcome.

 

[John in Covina]

A great thing to remember is what happens when things get out of hand.

Criticism can be difficult to take especially if you are hoping or expecting a good comment. Gentle encouragement with helpful hints is often a better approach. Also when extending the critical eye towards others the question may be one of: how vintage and how authentic are they attempting to be?

It is sometimes easy for someone to feel ganged up on if the comments are not restrained. One thing that cannot be understated is that as a written medium we cannot judge easily or clearly the TONE of the comment and of the commentator. In many threads jocular witticisms wind up reading as crushing remarks that are taken as cruel responses, for some it makes for a hard lesson and difficult to bounce back from. I know of several threads that wound up in flame wars that resulted in people being suspended and even banned from participating.

It may help not to respond instantaneously when one feels injured emotionally. Another is to try to use the emoticons when joking, but more importantly is to try to see how others may see or take your your remarks. In a spoken conversation we hear the tone and face to face we also read each others facial expressions so we know jokes from viciousness. A great temptation is, as debate develops, to come up with a crushing remark that one wishes to use to shut down all opposition. Here is where when emotions run high that lines of civility are crossed. Harsh words once written cannot be taken back, even if deleted the injury is still there so use caution. Use PM's and stay civil so the tone of the thread is not destroyed.

We are here for support and learning and to bring that to others, not to present some type of gauntlet or cruel tutelage by perfectionists judging others. Asking for comments should not come as a perilous request with such a gamble. Responses should not be a "truth at any cost" situation especially in a public forum. (Yes there is a time to take idiots, braggarts, and those that are spiteful to task but it is best to contact the bartender to handle questionable content.)

 

[HeyMoe]

Nobody wants to look like that:

But.....I do look like that!!!!!

are you telling me this is wrong?

 

[JanSolo]

Well said, John in Covina!

 

[John in Covina]

Well said, John in Covina!

Thanks, Jan. It is a lesson that I myself, need to re-learn on occasion.

Now and again a statement is made by someone or it may be too strong a response while there may be controversy regarding the subject or opinion. Next is the inability to step back and allow for other opinions that leads to trouble. Here we have a great collection of people that are experts and well researched on many different subjects in the vintage realm. I have even seen highly regarded persons in the "shut down other opinion" mode go too far in their remarks to become strident in their discourse. It can happen to all of us.
Unfortunately the hurt feelings are slow to heal.

Sometimes we also need to remember that people have a right to have differing opinions. The Voltaire quote can be a mainstay. Having the facts wrong is where it gets tricky.

 

[ButteMT61]

If I post a pic of me in any jacket saying: look at my new jacket, I'd not expect (or want) commentary on how fat I am, why did I not get a different color, etc.
If I post the same picture and say I want feedback, then let 'er rip!
There's being constructive, and there is mean, or opinion based on personal tastes. I've read threads here of some complaining about the dislike of "American" loose-fitting jackets being awful to look at. To me, that should be kept to yourself. Not everyone likes tighter, form-fitting clothing, and not all of us have the figger for it.
I'd never made a snide remark about those that DO like/wear such clothing.
Keep it civil. We all have feelings. Simple rules for getting along in life.

 

[Jeff M]

But.....I do look like that!!!!!

are you telling me this is wrong?

In soooooo many ways. lol

 

[Silver Dollar]

Lots of great answers here. I'm not really saying anything new here but just in a different way. I've always been one who says that constructive criticism is meant to help and not hurt. The whole point is how you deliver that criticism, feedback or whatever you want to call it. We all want to know if we're not looking right but no one wants to be blasted out of existence and embarrassed like some comments I've heard on venues like American Idol. I'm not much of a believer in "I like to tell it as it really is. I don't pull my punches and I don't care who disagrees", leaving the subject a big sobbing jelly like lump. Many people who do that think they're looked upon as the "guru" when all it does is make the criticiser look like a total jerk who sooner or later trips himself up and flushes himself down the tubes. Being a moderator on a large scale model car site who writes a lot of building tutorials, if someone asks me for honest feedback, I'll try to be as honest I can without being condescending or insulting yet not sugar coating the issue. I also try to offer solutions to the problem. If the person gets upset or blasts me back, I try to explain my suggestions. If that's not taken well, I just don't respond when that builder asks for another opinion. The whole idea is to offer criticism just like you'd want to be criticized. If it's offensive to you, it's most likely offensive to others.

 

[CBI]

I think if someone posts a "hey here is my new jacket" thread with pics, they are excited about the purchase and want to share. I think it best to take the "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything" approach. If a member posts and asks for advice, comments if they have a fit issue, etc. then, if its nicely done, comments can be helpful. You can always PM someone if you have a strong view that you feel you need to share with them. I may be inviting scorn here or "why did he say this" but for example, I have owned a number of Aero Leather jackets and although I am fully aware of the fine quality, I just don't care for them. Enthusiam for Aero is HUGE on FL so I never post when someone gets a new Aero as I know they are in love and I don't want to rain on their parade. I just think its great that there are many folks who love quality garments and vintage fashion...............

 

[MikeBravo]

It depends on the thread. In "What are you wearing today", for instance, it is implied that no feedback/advice is asked for as it is in the past and cannot be changed. I enjoy giving positive feedback in that thread, expressing my admiration or envy, and I think people like to hear that too

Personally, I just want to hear good things, if you can't say something nice don't say anything applies . However if somebody actually asks for feedback (as I sometimes do), a few constructive words made with a spirit of goodwill is appropriate. I find that expressing opinions as preferences is effective in not offending people. As in "I prefer a plain pocket square with a patterned tie, rather than a patterned pocket square" for example.

In a nutshell, act as one would in a social face-to-face setting. And don't make it personal, as in "You're too fat for that skirt"

 

[1087]

IMHO all the opinions offered here are valid, because we as an individuals may have a different view on the same subject base in our taste,past experiences, wishes, etc,etc.
Silent can be valuable too... depending on the circumstances, but again each of us can have a different opinion on the same subject.
At the same token, if all of us remains silent when somebody post their new jacket pictures that is been waiting for months, then there will be no forum either.
In other words common sense has to prevail like anything else in life, but that is another story how to deal with that, right?

 

[Seb Lucas]

I think if someone posts a "hey here is my new jacket" thread with pics, they are excited about the purchase and want to share. I think it best to take the "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything" approach. If a member posts and asks for advice, comments if they have a fit issue, etc. then, if its nicely done, comments can be helpful. You can always PM someone if you have a strong view that you feel you need to share with them. I may be inviting scorn here or "why did he say this" but for example, I have owned a number of Aero Leather jackets and although I am fully aware of the fine quality, I just don't care for them. Enthusiam for Aero is HUGE on FL so I never post when someone gets a new Aero as I know they are in love and I don't want to rain on their parade. I just think its great that there are many folks who love quality garments and vintage fashion...............

I hear you. I think its perfectly decent to say nothing if you think the person is too vain or looks like a horses arse (and, yes, they sometimes are and they sometimes do). Why upset people needlessly? Besides, you don't know how sensitive someone might be and what they have been dealing with in life. But it's probably fine to politely point out if a sleeve seems too short or a jacket a bit small to our taste. In other words, don't ask for genunine feedback if you don't want to hear a contrary point of view.