Is it me or has it become harder to sell things on Classifieds or anywhere else?

[Amy Jeanne]

I was "too rockabilly for school" in the 00s and early 10s in Philadelphia, but I always supported the newbies. The others in that "clique" would mock a newbie when they got up from the table. When I started to shift to more 60s and 70s looks, I was then shunned. That scene is now 10000% dead. I moved across the country, but I still have contact with some of the people from that scene. 100% of them are no longer into rockabilly/vintage/being "too cool".

 

[tonyb]

Last evening I attended an event called “Old School Cool VIntage Market.” It‘s a monthly outdoor event in an “arts district” and coincides with the standard First Friday hoopla in such districts — galleries staying open late, lotsa relatively young people out doing what relatively young people do on Friday nights, etc.

Friends were vending there, so I stopped by to say hi and to gauge whether what I have to sell might appeal to the crowds there (it was very well attended). There were leather jackets and cowboy boots with prices approaching what I’d have to get for my swag, but it was mostly far less spendy stuff. And it seems that “old school” means 1960s through ‘90s, mostly.

“Golden Era”? That might be a tough sell to the 20- and 30-somethings these days.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

I just looked up a former member on here who dressed head to toe early 1950s. She's selling all her stuff off and now dresses modern. SHe still loves 50s stuff, but just not her life anymore.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^^
Is it that the vintage look had become emblematic of a life she wishes to leave behind?

 

[Edward]

Hagerty posted a piece today about the market for vintage British sports car going soft, what with the “baby boomers“ (I hate that designation, but we’re stuck with it) who coveted those cars when they were new either dying off or offloading their more superfluous possessions while “downsizing” into their senior years. And it appears that subsequent generations aren’t so enamored with the things.

On this side of the pond, the scene is definitely very much smaller than once it was. My dad has long been involved - all my life, and then some, in the vintage and particularly pre-war car scene in Ireland. He's the guy who liked to buy a car, fettle with it, get it perfect, than after a season or two sell it on for something else that needed sorting, because for him that was where the fun was. Some of my earliest memories are of gonig on runs, sitting on the back parcel shelf of a 1936 Austin 7 Opal(? I think - the two-seater sports model). Dad tells me there are no new young people coming into the scene now. It feels inevitable for any scene based on Nostalgia. Dad learned to drive in a 50s sit up and beg Ford Pop with a sidevalve engine - a design that was manufactured 1953-1962 (and was pretty old fashioned even then). The cars that were new and daily drivers when he first started gonig on vintage runs are now appearing on vintage runs as vintage cars... I remember Morris Minors, 110s, Austin Maxis, Triumph Heralds being common on our roads. Some of these were models phased out by 1971, but in the early 80s still a common sight on the roads as a second hand motor. People who gravitated to the car scene over there at least (and I think to a great extent still in Britain) were all about the cars, not the period. (The one guy I remember turning up at an event dressed period to match his car was openly laughed at by the long termers.) People typically gravitated to a car either because it was one they remember a parent / grandparent/relative having as a child, or it featured in a favourite TV show, or it was the one they really wanted when they first started driving, but couldn't afford. Inevitably that shifts with time. There are a lot of guys in their early 50s now whose first cars were base-model Fiestas and Escorts buying and restoring XR2s and XR3s.

Then there's practicality.... to really own something vintage and treat it right, in a lot of places over here's it's not a practical only-motor, especially somewhere like County Antrim where public transport is still very limited and you are significantly restricted if you don't drive (it's why - despite actually hating driving - I did my licence still living there. While I've kept the licence up to date as it's useful as ID, the last time I actually sat in the driving seat of a car was over twenty-five years ago now - closer 26, actually - the night before I went to London on the only one-way flight I think I've ever bought). Not everybody can afford to buy and garage a second car. Insurance over there is horrific too. Here in London, it's hard enough to afford somewhere with on-street parking for a single car, and insurance again is pricey. Cost of entry aside, then there's maintenance. The rarer the motor, the harder it is to source parts, and the more expensive. Then there's feeding it.... that's a big part of why you see so few American vintage cars over here. Petrol is much more expensive here, so an old Chevvy or a Mustang that does 9mpg (compared to a Morris Minor that can do about 40) is just not an option for many.

I think there are broader social trends too, of course. I know I'd have to learn to double-declutch, which might make me wary of anything pre-synchromesh. Here in the UK, though, there are more kids than ever learning to drive only automatic. Autos have been much more uncommon for a very long time in the UK - most of us learn to drive stick, which is the absolute norm. Auto boxes for generations have only really appeared on very expensive motors... If you do learn to drive and do your test in an auto, then you licence only allows you to legally drive an auto. It's limiting. However, in recent years the number of kids learning only auto is fast rising, because so many of them aspire to driving an electric (vastly cheaper to run), those all being automatic. That, plus the sheer cost of petrol, plus the looming of a world where ICE petrol cars are no longer a norm, is inevitably gonig to greatly reduce the number of people wanting an older hobby car.

It's sad - I have a lot of great memories of those runs, and I love seeing older motors on the road - but I suppose it's inevitable, really.

Edward said many people have contempt for their former vintage selves. I experienced this. I still see snobbery in "antique" and "vintage" areas. Total turn off. Explain to people what is correct instead of mocking them. They've all turned people off to "The Golden Era". I notice Gen Z with their love of the 70s to 00s are enthusiastic and love to share/compliment each other.

I just use all my waterfall furniture, read my history, watch my old movies, and just do me!

Definitely another element to it. There's a whole world of difference between a tourist coming into your scene to mock it, and somebody new who is trying, needs to learn, hasn't been able to afford it all yet or whatever... first experiences count. I didn't go to another dance class for a decade after an ex years ago bullied me into gonig to a lindy class - and then bullied me into quitting because I was slower than the rest of the class at picking it up and I suppose she was embarrassed. Half the class were folks who'd done it for years and were gonig to lessons below their level. I remember one of the ladies in particular - who did a lot of tutting at me - who had clearly done the course multiple times and always made a show of throwing in one stage further than we'd been instructed to do.

Gate keepers are the cure of every scene. They also tend to be extremely lacking in self-awareness - the worst gate-keepers I've ever known have, without exception, always been the first to moan and complain about "no new people ever stick around here".

I started playing in bands in November 1990 and it was sad to see idiots destroy the happiness of kids who just wanted to dress up, go out and have a good time. I got into a huge argument with a couple of guys one night who bemoaned that the scene wasn't like it "in the old days." I called them filthy hypocrites, reminded them they were two of the major players who harassed those coming in who would've kept it going "like the old days".

Ding! Ding! That's a bingo!

Same thing currently happening over in punk rock world, where a bunch of gatekeepers are throwing their toys out of the pram because 75% of the original Pistols line-up are touring with a different singer (Lydon didn't want to do it, and that was mutual.... they didn't ask).

There's a certain irony that these gatekeepers not so many years ago were so often exactly the people at whom they later sneered.

I was "too rockabilly for school" in the 00s and early 10s in Philadelphia, but I always supported the newbies. The others in that "clique" would mock a newbie when they got up from the table. When I started to shift to more 60s and 70s looks, I was then shunned. That scene is now 10000% dead. I moved across the country, but I still have contact with some of the people from that scene. 100% of them are no longer into rockabilly/vintage/being "too cool".

The very worst kind of gatekeeper is a scene jumper who moves on to do the same to another scene for sure!

Last evening I attended an event called “Old School Cool VIntage Market.” It‘s a monthly outdoor event in an “arts district” and coincides with the standard First Friday hoopla in such districts — galleries staying open late, lotsa relatively young people out doing what relatively young people do on Friday nights, etc.

Friends were vending there, so I stopped by to say hi and to gauge whether what I have to sell might appeal to the crowds there (it was very well attended). There were leather jackets and cowboy boots with prices approaching what I’d have to get for my swag, but it was mostly far less spendy stuff. And it seems that “old school” means 1960s through ‘90s, mostly.

“Golden Era”? That might be a tough sell to the 20- and 30-somethings these days.

When I was an undergrad in the 90s, we were into 'vintage' stuff like Hendrix and the Doors. I had a Clash poster on my wall. The kids who are 21 now, in 2024, are listening to Nirvana and Britpop - that's their vintage. They've hit the right time for it to be accessible too, I suppose - partly with the t-shirts selling as retro fashion raising band awareness, but also bands like Oasis getting publicity as come round again for oldies wanting to relieve their youth - and having raised their kids with their stuff. I mean, I discovered the Bach Boys through my parents, back in the 80s when they were I suppose like listening to the White Stripes now.

^^^^^^
Is it that the vintage look had become emblematic of a life she wishes to leave behind?

That also can happen. I've known people burn out on a scene, hobby, relationship and totally change their look, come to resent an old look which has negative associations for them. Which is perfectly understandable, really, though it can feel somewhat insulting to those in their social circle still into it, depending on how expressed.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

I literally have no idea what the people in the "scene" are like now. I know two are into death metal. One is super goth. ANother is way into Star Wars cosplay. They are now late 40s/early 50s and I think they outgrew it all. Like me, they are just living their lives.

 

[tonyb]

I literally have no idea what the people in the "scene" are like now. I know two are into death metal. One is super goth. ANother is way into Star Wars cosplay. They are now late 40s/early 50s and I think they outgrew it all. Like me, they are just living their lives.

We’ve chewed over before how some people jump into a thing with both feet, how that thing becomes of large part of their identity, and then, poof!, they’re gone, to where is anybody’s guess.

It’s not that they owe me any explanations, but I would be interested in knowing what motivated their departure.

 

[Edward]

We’ve chewed over before how some people jump into a thing with both feet, how that thing becomes of large part of their identity, and then, poof!, they’re gone, to where is anybody’s guess.

It’s not that they owe me any explanations, but I would be interested in knowing what motivated their departure.

Yes. I tend to find it's always one of two things if it's as pronounced as that. Either a bad experience of whatever sort puts them off and they jump to something new, a sort of fresh start thing, or they burned themselves out by gonig too hardcore. I've known people go from dressing strictly vintage daily and even going so far as to do all their laundry by hand, using a mangle, to rejecting the whole thing and getting into a later period like the 70s, 80s, or just dropping it all and going normcore. Of course people's tastes can also simply just change over time.

I'm certainly not in a position to question someone else's choice to drop vintage and go for another look. This is my final regeneration, but some some one else it might just be a step along the way. Twenty years ago I was still going out in black lipstick and bondage trousers (a look I still love but no longer have the physique for). Even then, I also think we should remember that doesn't mean they've dropped their entire interest (or feel that they have "rejected our world and take offence). A lot of folks will retain their interest in certain part of the era even if they no longer desire to dress it. It's one of the reasons I like TFL so much, tbh - there's a space for folks only interested in one or two aspects of 'our' period right through to those who go for almost total immersion (I do recall we did have one member who went total immersion, at which point we lost them because they dropped the internet too). I like that TFL is mostly a supportive space for that as well.