Is Christmas Ruined Forever?

[HoosierDaddy]

Oh jeeze..here we go. It was inevitable..I suppose

 

[sheeplady]

fftopic:

Respectfully, atheism (in the broadest sense) is the lack of a belief in a god, not the lack of a belief in anything that can't be explained by rational means. Buddhists, for example (who don't believe in a god) believe in karma and reincarnation. I don't know what their position would be on the Santa question.

I know Buddhists who do Santa with the kids as a secular tradition. I also know Buddhists who have a Nativity, not as a regions artifact, but because they find lessons in the story of Jesus's birth similar to lessons in their own faith.

Some Buddhists celebrate none of these, too.

 

[PHIL1959]

sorry but that would be cruel to tell your child that Santa doesn't exist. end of.childhood is a magical time (very short time) let them enjoy it.

 

[Panadora]

fftopic: Sad that anti-theists need to throw a snide remark in at any given opportunity.

By picking up on the fairytale remark you are missing the point of my post. And please notice that I wasn't preaching!

Sorry folks, couldn't let that one pass peaceably.

Why not? How does this differ from the blessing stuff in your own posts?

 

[Panadora]

Back on topic

Don't worry, the imagination of children will overcome any reality check!
- The wooden stick goes bang bang and now you're dead

BTW The magic time of being afraid of not getting any presents due to bad behaviour?!?

 

[LizzieMaine]

fftopic:

Respectfully, atheism (in the broadest sense) is the lack of a belief in a god, not the lack of a belief in anything that can't be explained by rational means. Buddhists, for example (who don't believe in a god) believe in karma and reincarnation. I don't know what their position would be on the Santa question.

In an equally broad sense, though, you could say that any concept that someone follows out of faith becomes, for all intents and purposes, their "god." The world is full of supposed atheists who are far more evangelical in their support for these "gods," whether they be spiritual, material, or political, than any follower of the God of Abraham. That's the point I'm making. I've never known anyone who didn't have some sort of "god," even if their "god" is their non-belief in God.

 

[31 Model A]

Points to ponder:

If the subject of this thread was 20-30 years ago it would be a completely unbelievable to even consider such a suggestion but this is 2014, soon to be 2015. How will the OP deal with their child coming home from pre-school balling his eyes out saying how cruel his classmates are or how cruel his TEACHER is by telling him there is no Santa?????????????? It's happening today. Young kids today are very much the extensions of what is said and what the child sees at home. How many teachers today are getting disciplined for bringing their personal beliefs into the classroom. Not all but it only takes one incident to hit the news, social media, etc and myths or tradition is under attack for some ludicrous thin skin reason from someone who has no life and needs to make waves just to be heard for 15 minutes of fame.....IMO.

 

[dh66]

In an equally broad sense, though, you could say that any concept that someone follows out of faith becomes, for all intents and purposes, their "god." The world is full of supposed atheists who are far more evangelical in their support for these "gods," whether they be spiritual, material, or political, than any follower of the God of Abraham. That's the point I'm making. I've never known anyone who didn't have some sort of "god," even if their "god" is their non-belief in God.

Very astute observation, and by my own experience with people, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
There always have been, and always will be those who want to prop up an ideal and those who want to tear it down. It's just part of the human experience.
And on that, I'll leave you with a little thought from one of atheism's poster boys, Friedrich Nietzsche..... "What else is LOVE but understanding and rejoicing in the fact that another person lives, acts, and experiences otherwise than we do?" Really, pretty Christian of him, and appropriate to the season I think.

 

[sheeplady]

I think a broader question is, "What will you do when your son comes to you and asks, 'Why don't we do Santa?'"

I think that this is a question you really need to think about. How are you going to explain that you did Santa as a child but your child does not get Santa, when many of his classmates do (or have other traditions that involve gifts)?

People who are of various religious persuasions who categorically DON'T do Santa tend to have a very good reason for not doing it. This reason was likely passed down by their parents or religious organization to them. They can often point to generations of their families who have done a different tradition. If they are a convert, they can point to a strong religious tradition and reasons as to why Santa is not correct for their family.

Even more importantly, people who have other traditions than Santa HAVE other traditions they do with their children at this time of year. If you remove traditions but don't replace them with some other traditions, your child will wonder why they don't have traditions. Even religions who don't have a "winter" tradition have added traditions at this time of year- a lot of the Muslim families I know do a tree for new years and exchange small gifts on New Years Day.

Basically, what I am saying is that you need to think carefully about what traditions you do with your children. Children *need* traditions. Children need to feel connected to a culture and to their families; and traditions do that, particularly for young children.

 

[2jakes]

Traditions !

I know it's fftopic: ...but in my house , the tradition was to open Christmas gifts on the morning of December 25th.
While others did this on the 24th. Just wondering !

 

[sheeplady]

I know it's fftopic: ...but in my house , the tradition was to open Christmas gifts on the morning of December 25th.
While others did this on the 24th. Just wondering !

Part of my grandfather's family did it on Christmas eve. They were extremely conservative Lutherans (they did not drink, dance, play cards, or smoke. They also could not attend services of another faith, including funerals, etc.).

Christmas morning was entirely spent in Church. The large meal of the day had to be prepared on Christmas eve, and only re-heated, as the day was focused on worship, not work or gift giving or anything like that. My grandparents (whom I never met) were quite a bit more lax than this, but they still exchanged gifts on Christmas eve by tradition because that was how it was done in my grandfather's family.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Our traditions --

Wk. of 12/8 -- Go over to the next town one night and drive around looking at the colored lights. Go to Grants for shopping.

Wk of 12/15 -- Write letters to Santa, send to S. Claus c/o WABI-TV, 35 Hildreth Street, Bangor. Watch "Santa and his Friends" on Channel 5 every weekday afternoon at 4:30 to see if he reads the letters on the air. Become irritated when he fails to do so. Become really irritated when he reads the letter from that snotty kid next door who already brags too much because he got to be on "Bozo" that time.

Wk of 12/22 -- Go up one of the back roads and cut a tree from the side of the road. Set it up. Argue over which side is the one that should be facing the wall. Hope it's not a cat spruce.

Christmas Eve -- Open one present. Go to church. Get a box of ribbon candy and peach blossoms from the WSCS ladies in the church hall after the service.

Christmas Day -- Open the presents. Break at least one major present before noon. Cry. Go to supper at grandparents house and eat roast pork.

Day after Christmas -- Tree is taken down and tossed out in the dooryard. Sometimes this happens Christmas afternoon if Ma's nerves are stretched too thin.

April -- Haul what's left of the Christmas tree down the gully and pitch it in with all the others.

 

[Panadora]

The new trend around here is to use both the 24th and the 25th in order to have christmas with both parents

 

[Big Man]

I know it's fftopic: ...but in my house , the tradition was to open Christmas gifts on the morning of December 25th.
While others did this on the 24th. Just wondering !

Growing up, we "had Santa Claus" and opened presents EARLY on Christmas morning. It was always a race to see who was the first one up, me or my sister (I always beat her). Then, around mid-morning, the extended family would start coming in. My Grandmother Brown and my two aunts were always first, followed by my Grandfather and Grandmother Dobson. We almost always had two great aunts and two of my Grandmother's nieces (all elderly people when I was little) at out house.

I remember those days like they were yesterday, even though most of the family who came have been gone for 30 years or more. I am so glad that Christmas was such a wonderful family time. The memories of those times so long past are more valuable than any present that could be exchanged.

When I started my own family, we had Santa and opened our Christmas presents at home EARLY on Christmas morning, then went to my Dad and Mom's house for breakfast and dinner, then to my in-law's house for supper. As the years past, and one by one family members passed away, we continued with the tradition. After my Mother passed, nothing was the same. Christmas was her holiday.

Now, my family are all grown with children and traditions of their own. We all get together on Christmas Eve at my home, usually for a supper meal. Three of my four children work in health care, so they never know from year to year if they will be working on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. It makes it a challenge to have a tradition like we did when I was a child, but we do the best we can. Besides, we all have those good memories of family being together during Christmas time. And that's what is important.

 

[Babydoll]

1) NEVER argue with your mother.

2) ALWAYS listen to what your mother says.

Followed up with a "Yes, ma'am" so you don't get smacked upside the head, too?

 

[HudsonHawk]

Gifts from Santa were never wrapped, so there was no opening. But gifts that are, even today, are opened Christmas morning.

But the greatest gift chaos I ever saw was with one of my ex-fiancées. She had a daughter, and her brothers and sisters all had kids as well. They would all buy gifts, but they all got thrown into one pile. So when it was time to open, like nine kids just started ripping in to stuff, with no regard for who bought what. Everything ended up in a pile, and the kids just sort of divided things up. No fights, no complaints. It was the craziest thing I ever saw.

 

[Babydoll]

When your child gets to the point where they are asking questions like that is when you first ask them what they think. How do YOU think Santa gets around? Do YOU think reindeer can fly? How do YOU think he gets into houses undetected?

Lily and I had this discussion yesterday. She's almost 5. I asked her how Santa could come down our chimney, but the squirrels and birds can't come down. She informed me that there is a Santa Door in the chimney, and he has a magic key that he can use once a year to come and bring presents, so that keeps everyone else from being able to come in. I had to laugh at her logic. To her, he still is magic.

She also "knows" that he shops at Target as well as elves making toys, that's why she got a present from Target as a Santa gift last year, and why he used wrapping paper that she saw at our local craft store. (She's wicked smart that way. I can barely keep up with her sometimes!)

Our view on parenting her is to let her be a child while she's a child. She will lose her imaginative innocence soon enough once she's in school. I'm okay with her believing in good people being kind, and helping others to have a happier celebration.

 

[2jakes]

Part of my grandfather's family did it on Christmas eve. They were extremely conservative Lutherans (they did not drink, dance, play cards, or smoke. They also could not attend services of another faith, including funerals, etc.).

Christmas morning was entirely spent in Church. The large meal of the day had to be prepared on Christmas eve, and only re-heated, as the day was focused on worship, not work or gift giving or anything like that. My grandparents (whom I never met) were quite a bit more lax than this, but they still exchanged gifts on Christmas eve by tradition because that was how it was done in my grandfather's family.

Everyone would gather at my grandmother's house before Christmas day . My aunts would be in the kitchen preparing
"homemade" tamales. There was also turkey & ham being prepared. I'm not an expert on this, but the ham in the stores
today do not have the same flavor. The ones I remember had a bone & was really delicious. There was also deer meat but
the taste was a wee bit too wild for me then.

 

[Big Man]

Followed up with a "Yes, ma'am" so you don't get smacked upside the head, too?

Smacked with the fly swatter on the leg. It didn't take but a couple times and I got the message.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Lily and I had this discussion yesterday. She's almost 5. I asked her how Santa could come down our chimney, but the squirrels and birds can't come down. She informed me that there is a Santa Door in the chimney, and he has a magic key that he can use once a year to come and bring presents, so that keeps everyone else from being able to come in. I had to laugh at her logic. To her, he still is magic.

This was another thing that I never could quite swallow about Santa. I've never lived in a house with a fireplace, and even when you're a little kid you can look over at the chimney and see that the only exit point is a pipe that leads directly into the firebox of the kerosene stove. They tried to tell me Santa had a fireproof suit and could come out the door you opened to change the wick, but I just nodded and said "uh-huh."